I accidentally duplicated threads by trying to salvage the discussions on the original thread, and got help cleaning it up, but we accidentally moved the original thread to the scrap yard so bear with us while we move it back
However in the OP of that thread it stated "No Arguments or Discussions" I tried to salvage the first round of discussion and politely tell y'all discussion wasn't cool in that thread but you did it anyway. . . SO this is a thread, made, specifically for discussing that thread. If you post discussion in the main thread it will be deleted, not gonna try and salvage it. Post discussion here.
http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-dislikelike-wantdo-not-want/ (http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-dislikelike-wantdo-not-want/)
There is the thread.
Main thread has been moved back.
On the point of no gear return.
To properly analyze the problem, we have to look at why Gear Return is used in the first place. With gear return, more people are willing to engage in conflict that would otherwise be avoidable. So, first, we have to develop a system that discourages a "gear centered" mental train of thought within the game, otherwise a lot of people will never go into a firefight knowing that they won't get their precious items back. Sure, it discourages "rambo STALKERs" and otherwise stupid conflicts, but then you get into problems where it's avoided at ALL costs and starts causing more trouble than it solves, winding up ruining possibly great RP scenarios. I know that this doesn't apply to a select group of people, but for a large majority this has been a problem in the past.
So, essentially: 1) Develop some system discouraging item centered mentalities and instead promoting character development (might require a lot more admin participation and admin generated rewards due to the nature of the economy) 2) Look over and modify or amend any rules relating to GR and combat in general that make it fair for everyone. 3) Wipe out GR.
It's a simple solution, but actually achieving this will be incredibly difficult without some proper thought and good planning. It won't solve the problem entirely because in the end it comes down to the individual, but it will hopefully diminish it.
It will need admins who will actually work on it Pistolkid, and if the admin roster will be as big as it always was, then it'll be REALLY hard to do.
Could just cut out gear and have a set of flags that have set gear when they spawn.
If they cant get new gear, they will be able to focus on actually participating in events and RP. Gear whores will be gone, so its a good thing. Would need to work out on how to make flags for players fair enough to compete with others, in a realistic way.
Or, add in a sorta perma death system where when you die, you need to make a new character and you spawn with basic items. In order to get better, you buy up, shoot someone, or find items to use or sell. When a character dies, their inventory is dropped.
Gear whores will be gone around and people will be less interested in going about the zone, but the faux economy will still be around enough to stimulate STALKERs economy.
My post from the previous thread
My opinion on Stalker.
-If paycheck's get removed you need to have an active admin team that will create jobs for stalkers etc
-Setting caps isn't such a bad thing for factions/traders etc as long as they periodically get opened with the increase of player base to the server.
-Make the server/rp more based around stalkers rather then factions.
-More events. Planned and random events. This will give new players a reason to come back and give regular players a reason to keep playing.
-An actual chance to find stuff around the map periodically instead of making artifacts and gear 99% based around events.
-Referring to my previous point. If this was put into place you would need to balance this out by having a decent amount of mutants or bandits around the map whether it be npc's, players, or admins to prevent people from just roaming around the map just looking for gear with no consequences. That way it adds a element of fear and risk.
-In order to achieve that you need an admin team who is active and dedicated enough to run the srp server, take care of events, and actually keeping the server alive rather then worrying about their own character.
In short you just need a proper balance for all aspects of the server and it should run great, shame its easier said then done.
Will add more points about different subjects later, short on time currently.
Everything ping pong said. If factions spawn with gear, it needs to be of poor quality and not droppable.
Like Duty would spawn with Ak74Ms\Ak74us, that don't drop and have horrible\bad accuracy. Freedom would get the equal of that (Mp5s, L300's? I don't know), with horrible accuracy. Military the Ak74u, ect. ect. ect. Donation flags would get the actual weapon, with normal accuracy, not diminishing the reason to donate to the server. Again, factions should not be able to drop these weapons so there would not be 'lol' looting during battle of these 'low quality' weapons.
Quote from: KingArthur on 08-11-2012
Everything ping pong said. If factions spawn with gear, it needs to be of poor quality and not droppable.
I guess factioners should start with some gear, not droppable.
But what if - for example - DUTY decides to attack some near bandits which camp near their base? What if the bandits kill them, they won't drop anything? And if they DUTY wins they grab their weapons?
Don't know really, thats just example.
And the weapons shouldn't be 'poor quality' more likely based on the Rank, Recruits MP5s/AKus or something and Sergants Akabans.
Quote from: knife_cz on 08-11-2012
And the weapons shouldn't be 'poor quality' more likely based on the Rank, Recruits MP5s/AKus or something and Sergants Akabans.
You should not diminish the value of getting 'actual' weapons for your faction by giving them out on spawn. That is what donations are for, unfortunately silver can not pay for the server off of pure charity.
The biggest issue with PingPongs thing is how much reliance it puts on the admin team.
You can't make the server so reliant on something or someone. It was dependent on gear and admins last dozen times, and that failed. After a certain period of time, at least.
And secondly, his points have been regurgitated so many times, by so many others, that its become the same damn thing said every time a discussion on SRP pops up.
SRP needs to try something new, just like how FORP needed to be different. Both servers relied on the same idea of admins doing everything to keep the players attention while players hoarded items and sat around.
SRP shouldn't be made to be dependent on an admin team and some bullshit economy or it will sink in a couple months until Silver craps out a couple new items/map/models.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
Could just cut out gear and have a set of flags that have set gear when they spawn.
I guess you already have a flag rank system made and how to rank up too.
Quote from: knife_cz on 08-11-2012
But what if - for example - DUTY decides to attack some near bandits which camp near their base? What if the bandits kill them, they won't drop anything? And if they DUTY wins they grab their weapons?
Don't know really, thats just example.
Not much of a point, besides, gear return.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012Or, add in a sorta perma death system where when you die, you need to make a new character and you spawn with basic items. In order to get better, you buy up, shoot someone, or find items to use or sell. When a character dies, their inventory is dropped.
I think that nearly EVERYONE in HGN would say no to this idea, firstly because it's kind of... well, dumb to get a character worth of 5-year IC
plan development getting lost due to a mine, stray shot, NPC or a dumb bar shootout our players really love it seems. Secondly, it would discourage people RPing at all, because they'd be too scared to lose their character.
People dying in the zone? Unheard of right?
I'd love to see a player hoard his character, it'd be his choice to hide in a bunker all day, too bad he'd never make a name of himself.
And a simple flag system with the approiate gear is easy, since most of the flags had a basic set. And it's not like they have all to be different from one or another, an exp stalker and vet stalker could carry similiar gear, just a different title.
But really, I'd love to see a player be afraid to roleplay life in the zone for the simple fear of his character dying. Stop having your hand held just for the sake of your 'oldfag' characters. Make a new one and move on and make a nother story. No more bullshit characters that have existed since the dawn of time and know secrets of the zone. No more of that crap. HGN's SRP is so damn unserious most of the time and boring since only a handful of people are willing to risk everything they made just to make an interesting story. Take a step away from the cookie cutter design that HGN has been stuck with for every RP server it's had.
Better idea, implement a stalker-like condition system so weapons can break.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
People dying in the zone? Unheard of right?
I'd love to see a player hoard his character, it'd be his choice to hide in a bunker all day, too bad he'd never make a name of himself.
And a simple flag system with the approiate gear is easy, since most of the flags had a basic set. And it's not like they have all to be different from one or another, an exp stalker and vet stalker could carry similiar gear, just a different title.
But really, I'd love to see a player be afraid to roleplay life in the zone for the simple fear of his character dying. Stop having your hand held just for the sake of your 'oldfag' characters. Make a new one and move on and make a nother story. No more bullshit characters that have existed since the dawn of time and know secrets of the zone. No more of that crap. HGN's SRP is so damn unserious most of the time and boring since only a handful of people are willing to risk everything they made just to make an interesting story. Take a step away from the cookie cutter design that HGN has been stuck with for every RP server it's had.
You have to account for the fact that it's so much easier to die in a game than in real life.
I didn't realize that the zone was supposed to be easy. I thought going into the zone was basically the same as sentencing your own death.
Wasn't there a character or quote in the game saying if you get killed by a bullet you're lucky. I don't get why you people want to play the easy-bake oven version of Stalker.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
I didn't realize that the zone was supposed to be easy. I thought going into the zone was basically the same as sentencing your own death.
Wasn't there a character or quote in the game saying if you get killed by a bullet you're lucky. I don't get why you people want to play the easy-bake oven version of Stalker.
Because there's plenty of fun to be had in getting killed by a random stray bullet and PK'ed after months of character
development.
Quote from: lolKieckQuote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012Or, add in a sorta perma death system where when you die, you need to make a new character and you spawn with basic items. In order to get better, you buy up, shoot someone, or find items to use or sell. When a character dies, their inventory is dropped.
I think that nearly EVERYONE in HGN would say no to this idea, firstly because it's kind of... well, dumb to get a character worth of 5-year IC plan development getting lost due to a mine, stray shot, NPC or a dumb bar shootout our players really love it seems. Secondly, it would discourage people RPing at all, because they'd be too scared to lose their character.
Not to mention if a random RDM'er comes onto the server and shoots and kills your character
"Well, your character died. Sorry after 5 months of developing him and making friends, time for you to make a new character."
or the player could say...
"Fuck this, I ain't staying on a server like this. I can go onto another server that I get to keep my character/gear after an RDM'er."
Which do you think Average Joe (Which you seem to be saying is about nothing but gear) will choose? The one where he keeps his gear, or the one where he looses all of it?
Get rid of the stupid kids that want to hoard. There are ways, I've said many times, to make it so gear isn't the sole part of the game and anyone will be able to obtain in a way similar to the games.
But I forget, the majority of HGN now is filled with kids that want gear and nothing else.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
Get rid of the stupid kids that want to hoard. There are ways, I've said many times, to make it so gear isn't the sole part of the game and anyone will be able to obtain in a way similar to the games.
But I forget, the majority of HGN now is filled with kids that want gear and nothing else.
i want gear khorn gibi gibi gibi and the booty
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
Get rid of the stupid kids that want to hoard. There are ways, I've said many times, to make it so gear isn't the sole part of the game and anyone will be able to obtain in a way similar to the games.
But I forget, the majority of HGN now is filled with kids that want gear and nothing else.
I find it hilarious that people still bring up this old arguement.
Quote from: Otto on 08-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
Get rid of the stupid kids that want to hoard. There are ways, I've said many times, to make it so gear isn't the sole part of the game and anyone will be able to obtain in a way similar to the games.
But I forget, the majority of HGN now is filled with kids that want gear and nothing else.
I find it hilarious that people still bring up this old arguement.
I find it hilarious that people still bring up this old SRP.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
Quote from: Otto on 08-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
Get rid of the stupid kids that want to hoard. There are ways, I've said many times, to make it so gear isn't the sole part of the game and anyone will be able to obtain in a way similar to the games.
But I forget, the majority of HGN now is filled with kids that want gear and nothing else.
I find it hilarious that people still bring up this old arguement.
I find it hilarious that people still bring up this old SRP.
booty
HELLO! I'm here for one quick.. Er.. Summary because I never got to do this in my time in HGN. HERE WE GO!
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
people will be less interested in going about the zone
W- What? SO SUPPOSEDLY, we shouldn't be interested in walking around the Zone in a Zone roleplay.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
I'd love to see a player hoard his character, it'd be his choice to hide in a bunker all day, too bad he'd never make a name of himself.
That's basically why SRP died quickly. Nobody wanted to walk around because they were too scared of Bloodsuckers doing triple back flips, and pulling off a Mortal Kombat finisher, instead of y'know. Sucking the STALKERs blood.
Quote from: Khorn on 08-11-2012
But really, I'd love to see a player be afraid to roleplay life in the zone for the simple fear of his character dying.
This already happened. And again, nobody left the bars.
Goodbye!
P.s. Hi Hitman.
What does a player get from wondering from the bars? There is hardly anything alluring to stalkers that they really want to get their hands on that actually appears within SRP.
@Khorn: You can't get rid of the "kids" who hoard gear. It isn't against the rules and its fun for them. Whats fun for someone isn't always fun for someone else. Thats the problem with your envision of a perfect roleplay--- thats just it, a -perfect- roleplay. For a perfect roleplay, we need a perfect community. So really, the problem doesn't solely lie in gear.
Quote from: SGT-Spartans on 08-11-2012
What does a player get from wondering from the bars? There is hardly anything alluring to stalkers that they really want to get their hands on that actually appears within SRP.
Admins need to make stuff to do, and make 'exploring' worth it by placing random stashes of small good like ammo, medpacks, and the occasional (low teir) weapon. You know, what I used to do. :|
I'm going to make this as short and sweet as possible; there's no way to discuss a problem about 'gear' by setting it as a spawning weapon. (Except for maybe the major factions such as Duty or Freedom and so on.) And why do you ask? Well people say it time and time again in role-play servers "Oh, gear doesn't matter, it's just about the role-play!" Now yes, I agree in some RP situations it's not necessary, and even on some servers you can go your entire character's life without a single gun and then die for being in the wrong place!
.......
Now we can all argue that GR is a bad or good thing and that there should be a definite rule about it; though personally I think it should just be an unwritten agreement between the two role-playing. I mean shit, people aren't /that/ much'a dicks all the time >_>. Sure, you may have some cash and your gun taken from you; but who hasn't had that happen? People always come back on the rebound, just be smart with your money. You can always work yourself back to the top if you play your cards right.
But S.T.A.L.K.E.R role-play is not a place like that. No matter which way you look at it, people go to the Zone to make money fast and either leave, or improve their standard of living (Through possibly 'gear' or other means.). Now I'm not trying to sound like a 'gear' monger when I say this, it's just that 'gear' /does/ matter; It matters more than most other role-play servers. 'Gear' increases one's survivability in the Zone, 'gear' is what helps the poor stalker survive maybe another day. Sure, you can passive and sure, you could just live in a bar and be a sad little drunk stalker all day. But in order to get in line with the big-wigs it seems; you have to show what you're worth and the safest and easiest way to do that is have a nice shiny shooter or a protective suit.
What I think we need to work on is just more sensible role-play. Less "Triple back flipping bloodsuckers" and more realistic role-play; I say we just simplify the rules and then let the player-base make whatever they can of the server. It feels annoying sometimes to be tied down to a canon that's already sketchy as it is, why don't we let our audience give it a little twist of their own? Maybe giving everyone else a say in the matter and helping them shape their own world even if it's a little bit, will help. Of course admins can step in whenever shit gets out of hand, but the Zone is kinda lawless, if someone can get away with something ridiculous which could actually happen; then why not let them do it?
What I'm trying to say is, let's just make the community a little more open to outsiders maybe and make sure the RP stay sensible >_> I mean jesus christ we have had bullet proof blood suckers, spine-ripping mortal kombat finishers (As Thanatos mentioned.)... Let's just let S.T.A.L.K.E.R be S.T.A.L.K.E.R. . No Streloks, no crazy wild shit <_<. . . . PLEASE. (When I think about it, yes I know that there's a bunch of weird stuff in the canon already, but you should know what I'm tryin' to say.)
---------------------
Also I'd like to address a little problem I found about STK/STM and just using a gun in general on SRP; I've found it very silly that instead of STM or STRP or anything like that, the whole situation suddenly become "Action movie the role-play." I mean seriously, someone gets their nickers in a bunch for getting clipped or hit with a bullet >_>... Injuries happen in firefights and if you aren't willing to accept this yourself, then how about you let someone else help you understand? If it were anyone's choice, no one would ever get hit by anything it seems. It's just something silly that I thought I'd like to address, if there are any rule changes, I think something should definetley touch on that subject at least a little bit.
Of course we all want the admins (We've beaten this subject into a bloody pulp already, I know.) to be active and involved etc, etc, we all know how that goes; But players need to create their own RP, it's not hard. You just have to /do/ it. Try to rely more on yourself and your own resources rather than admins with their almighty guiding hand to make a pivotal moment in SRP. 'Jus takes a little bit of effort.
Everything aside I think I spoke a little too much and made too little sense, oh well! That's just how I sees it.
I think I failed at making it "Short and sweet." ._.
The fucking guns S2M for you whats the fucking point of trying even harder. Most conflicts should be S2K because everybody is rambo is S2RP and S2M is stupid because you waste your ammo for somebody elses pleasure.
Not everybody, and if someone gets rambo there will probably be a shoutdown in OOC resulting in A) an admin popping on the scene or B) the "rambo" gets some sense pounded into its head by an AK. Most of these are new players, who dont really get the concept yet anyways.
Here we go.
1.) Restrict progression in terms of items to only Stalkers. Faction members will spawn with a suit, and a gun with accordance to their rank, but are stuck with them. To get new ones they'd need to rank up in the faction, possibly giving them a new flag with the new items in accordance. This will put the spotlight on the stalkers where it should be, and stop the stupid faction gear whoring, and encourage them to actually follow orders, and stay active faction wise if they want to improve.
2.) For the love of god stop suggesting perma-death. It's the shittiest idea ever for RP. Role-Play is about developing a character, something you can't do when your characters die once or twice per day.
3.) Stop trying to over complicate the script because you feel it'll add 'immersion'.
Just as an FYI, when I mentioned perma-death, it wasn't the point of my whole post.
I just want to see the economy stripped down to a point where it won't play the role of the whole server. I also still vote with the idea of locking faction gear.
At least than, admins won't need to monitor each and every fight between factions. And then the factions can just handle themselves and win by their own troops ability.
Quote from: Plunger on 08-11-2012
Here we go.
1.) Restrict progression in terms of items to only Stalkers. Faction members will spawn with a suit, and a gun with accordance to their rank, but are stuck with them. To get new ones they'd need to rank up in the faction, possibly giving them a new flag with the new items in accordance. This will put the spotlight on the stalkers where it should be, and stop the stupid faction gear whoring, and encourage them to actually follow orders, and stay active faction wise if they want to improve.
2.) For the love of god stop suggesting perma-death. It's the shittiest idea ever for RP. Role-Play is about developing a character, something you can't do when your characters die once or twice per day.
3.) Stop trying to over complicate the script because you feel it'll add 'immersion'.
I think this is your only non-idiotic post in ages, Plunger.
I actually agree with your post 100%.
Quote from: Steven :D on 08-11-2012
The fucking guns S2M for you whats the fucking point of trying even harder. Most conflicts should be S2K because everybody is rambo is S2RP and S2M is stupid because you waste your ammo for somebody elses pleasure.
Guns got fixed by Pistolkid to not be super shitty before I left, sure if you hip fire full auto you won't hit a damn thing but if you're smart about firing you have a chance of hitting a target at impressive distances.
Also, kudos to CC for stating what I've been saying all along and that is to let HGN make drive the story/canon. Of course he may not be suggesting the same thing I've been suggesting and that is. . . To ignore the main storyline of the main characters of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Act like they don't/didn't exist or happen, hell it'd open up some leeway for events that could happen IDK, just divorce the idea that if it didn't happen in the game it shouldn't happen in the server. . . Also yeah I agree that Suckers need a nerf as far as how "SUPER FACKING REDICULUS AWESAM" they are in RP, yes they are higher in the food chain but they aren't these super sayian beasts that
doesn't afraid of anything aren't affected by bullets and blades.
Also
Quote from: Plunger on 08-11-2012
Here we go.
1.) Restrict progression in terms of items to only Stalkers. Faction members will spawn with a suit, and a gun with accordance to their rank, but are stuck with them. To get new ones they'd need to rank up in the faction, possibly giving them a new flag with the new items in accordance. This will put the spotlight on the stalkers where it should be, and stop the stupid faction gear whoring, and encourage them to actually follow orders, and stay active faction wise if they want to improve.
2.) For the love of god stop suggesting perma-death. It's the shittiest idea ever for RP. Role-Play is about developing a character, something you can't do when your characters die once or twice per day.
3.) Stop trying to over complicate the script because you feel it'll add 'immersion'.
^THAT HOLY FUCK, JESUS ROLLER BLADING CHRIST. YES!! THAT!!^
Quote from: Tom on 09-11-2012To ignore the main storyline of the main characters of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Act like they don't/didn't exist or happen, hell it'd open up some leeway for events that could happen IDK, just divorce the idea that if it didn't happen in the game it shouldn't happen in the server... I agree that bloodsuckers need a nerf as far as how "SUPER FACKING REDICULUS AWESAM" they are in RP, yes they are higher in the food chain but they aren't these super sayian beasts that doesn't afraid of anything aren't affected by bullets and blades.
Just make SRP post-CoP storyline, that will free us from the bonds of STALKER storyline, we could also progress SRP into it's own storyline too.
While bloodsucker nerfing is pointless, because after all people RP differently and it won't change shit, other than lowering combat ability of good-RPing bloodsuckers
UNLESS you'd buff up the hit and run tactics which bloodsuckers used in STALKER games by, for example, making bloodsuckers barely visible or invisible after a few seconds and making sure people know that bloodsucker claws can pierce through kevlar (after all they attack stalkers, don't they?). It'd compensate the fact that bloodsuckers are easier to kill and would make bloodsucker players able to escape with buffed up cloak.
EDIT: Also Khorn, your idea about perma-death is stil bad.
RP is
developing your character and losing a really developed one due to a stray bullet doesn't really promote that. And if you think that everyone would still RP, then you're wrong. Perma-death only works on RP's like Starship Troopers because it's solely
your fault you have died, dying because of an accident or a sniper on a hill will make SRP a DayZ/WarZ game where everyone would be hostile to each other because they don't want to lose gear and their precious character. It would also make people rage quit and would make SRP a dead server.
Quote from: lolKieck on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 09-11-2012To ignore the main storyline of the main characters of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Act like they don't/didn't exist or happen, hell it'd open up some leeway for events that could happen IDK, just divorce the idea that if it didn't happen in the game it shouldn't happen in the server... I agree that bloodsuckers need a nerf as far as how "SUPER FACKING REDICULUS AWESAM" they are in RP, yes they are higher in the food chain but they aren't these super sayian beasts that doesn't afraid of anything aren't affected by bullets and blades.
Just make SRP post-CoP storyline, that will free us from the bonds of STALKER storyline, we could also progress SRP into it's own storyline too.
While bloodsucker nerfing is pointless, because after all people RP differently and it won't change shit, other than lowering combat ability of good-RPing bloodsuckers UNLESS you'd buff up the hit and run tactics which bloodsuckers used in STALKER games by, for example, making bloodsuckers barely visible or invisible after a few seconds and making sure people know that bloodsucker claws can pierce through kevlar (after all they attack stalkers, don't they?). It'd compensate the fact that bloodsuckers are easier to kill and would make bloodsucker players able to escape with buffed up cloak.
EDIT: Also Khorn, your idea about perma-death is stil bad.
RP is developing your character and losing a really developed one due to a stray bullet doesn't really promote that. And if you think that everyone would still RP, then you're wrong. Perma-death only works on RP's like Starship Troopers because it's solely your fault you have died, dying because of an accident or a sniper on a hill will make SRP a DayZ/WarZ game where everyone would be hostile to each other because they don't want to lose gear and their precious character. It would also make people rage quit and would make SRP a dead server.
Completly agree.
Althought Monolith would be gone with that canon, still better than /this/.
And about the bloodsuckers, sure they do attack stalkers, but holy hell I completly hate Bloodsuckers which attack a group of more than three stalkers, which are armed, thats just a suicide for them, they are supposed to be atleast a bit afraid.
First of all, I support the post-Call of Pripyat idea. It would allow us to get a sure point of where we left off (Those who finished Call of Pripyat know precisely where we are, and the things that have happened thus far.) The main characters could have existed previously, and everything could have happened how it happened, and the atmosphere would be uniform for every single player. Also, as a response to Knife, the Monolith is not needed in my opinion, as their only objective in the STALKER universe is to provide late game resistance to the "Wish Granter." SRP should not take place in what can be considered "Late game" of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. universe.
Next, the 'gear' "Problem." The entire point, the entire focus of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is the economy. Whether you like it or not, 99% of the Stalkers have come to the Zone in search of wealth in black market "Artifacts." No scared bitches come to the Zone, a place they know is dangerous. It takes a very adventurous, strong, brave person as a base for the desire to enter the Zone in the first place. Some people may have come for personal reasons, and that's acceptable, but that's the very minority.
The factions should have two focuses, one In-character, one Out of Character. The In-character focus should be on the faction's ideals, ie Freedom's free access and lack of "ownership" of the Zone, or Duty's destruction of the Zone and its inhabitants (The mutants, Anomalies, etc). The Out of Character goal should be to enhance the roleplay of the Neutral Stalkers (the main demographic of SRP) while still building their own character's story. This fact is something Gonztah and I agreed on and influenced how each of us would theoretically run our two factions together (provided we had both won our nominations), for the betterment of Stalkers. Creating a large area that can potentially be used to creating events and working with admins to create a huge amount of jobs for the average Stalker.
I am school currently and have work afterwards, so I'll add more information once I have more free time, but this is the basis of my main points and my stance on SRP.
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
First of all, I support the post-Call of Pripyat idea. It would allow us to get a sure point of where we left off (Those who finished Call of Pripyat know precisely where we are, and the things that have happened thus far.) The main characters could have existed previously, and everything could have happened how it happened, and the atmosphere would be uniform for every single player. Also, as a response to Knife, the Monolith is not needed in my opinion, as their only objective in the STALKER universe is to provide late game resistance to the "Wish Granter." SRP should not take place in what can be considered "Late game" of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. universe.
It'd still be nice to at least see some remnants of them, like when you came across Strider and his group.
Removing them altogether would be kind of stupid I think.
Quote from: Otto on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
First of all, I support the post-Call of Pripyat idea. It would allow us to get a sure point of where we left off (Those who finished Call of Pripyat know precisely where we are, and the things that have happened thus far.) The main characters could have existed previously, and everything could have happened how it happened, and the atmosphere would be uniform for every single player. Also, as a response to Knife, the Monolith is not needed in my opinion, as their only objective in the STALKER universe is to provide late game resistance to the "Wish Granter." SRP should not take place in what can be considered "Late game" of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. universe.
It'd still be nice to at least see some remnants of them, like when you came across Strider and his group.
Removing them altogether would be kind of stupid I think.
I don't disagree with this, remnant forces that aren't associated with the faction itself anymore would be fine with regulation, in my opinion, but the main force of "Monolith" is just meant to kill people.
Quote from: Otto on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
First of all, I support the post-Call of Pripyat idea. It would allow us to get a sure point of where we left off (Those who finished Call of Pripyat know precisely where we are, and the things that have happened thus far.) The main characters could have existed previously, and everything could have happened how it happened, and the atmosphere would be uniform for every single player. Also, as a response to Knife, the Monolith is not needed in my opinion, as their only objective in the STALKER universe is to provide late game resistance to the "Wish Granter." SRP should not take place in what can be considered "Late game" of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. universe.
It'd still be nice to at least see some remnants of them, like when you came across Strider and his group.
Removing them altogether would be kind of stupid I think.
Monolith doing gorilla warfare against stalkers would be fun.
Kieck, like I stated a few posts above, perma death was nothing more than an after thought, not the main point I was making. I don't care either way, but I personally could play just fine with a aperma death option.
My point was about the issues with economy and gear, so please stop trying to point out something I was driving after.
Quote from: lolKieck on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Otto on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
First of all, I support the post-Call of Pripyat idea. It would allow us to get a sure point of where we left off (Those who finished Call of Pripyat know precisely where we are, and the things that have happened thus far.) The main characters could have existed previously, and everything could have happened how it happened, and the atmosphere would be uniform for every single player. Also, as a response to Knife, the Monolith is not needed in my opinion, as their only objective in the STALKER universe is to provide late game resistance to the "Wish Granter." SRP should not take place in what can be considered "Late game" of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. universe.
It'd still be nice to at least see some remnants of them, like when you came across Strider and his group.
Removing them altogether would be kind of stupid I think.
Monolith doing gorilla warfare against stalkers would be fun.
Exactly, a few fanatics left just causing a little havoc.
Quote from: Khorn on 09-11-2012
Kieck, like I stated a few posts above, perma death was nothing more than an after thought, not the main point I was making. I don't care either way, but I personally could play just fine with a aperma death option.
My point was about the issues with economy and gear, so please stop trying to point out something I was driving after.
There's a Delete button for a reason.
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 09-11-2012
Kieck, like I stated a few posts above, perma death was nothing more than an after thought, not the main point I was making. I don't care either way, but I personally could play just fine with a aperma death option.
My point was about the issues with economy and gear, so please stop trying to point out something I was driving after.
There's a Delete button for a reason.
Admins cannot delete their own posts.
My problem with a post-COP timeline is. . . What the fuck is there to do that's daring/awesome/cool/interesting.
Quote from: Tom on 09-11-2012
My problem with a post-COP timeline is. . . What the fuck is there to do that's daring/awesome/cool/interesting.
Nothing.
Its not like nobody cared about timeline this year, srp has its own known Stalkers, not from STALKER games.
The only difference would be just really set timeline, no monolith, and few helicopter crashes.
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 09-11-2012
Kieck, like I stated a few posts above, perma death was nothing more than an after thought, not the main point I was making. I don't care either way, but I personally could play just fine with a aperma death option.
My point was about the issues with economy and gear, so please stop trying to point out something I was driving after.
There's a Delete button for a reason.
Yea, and in FORP, I remade new characters constantly for events, but again, that's not my concern, and apparently no one elses.
And Tom, if you do post COP, you could take some ideas from some books, or similar themed books.
Find a force of some kind that grows larger and more powerful pushing itself through the zone or something, something that poses a threat to the people or the zone.
Quote from: Khorn on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 09-11-2012
Kieck, like I stated a few posts above, perma death was nothing more than an after thought, not the main point I was making. I don't care either way, but I personally could play just fine with a aperma death option.
My point was about the issues with economy and gear, so please stop trying to point out something I was driving after.
There's a Delete button for a reason.
Yea, and in FORP, I remade new characters constantly for events, but again, that's not my concern, and apparently no one elses.
And Tom, if you do post COP, you could take some ideas from some books, or similar themed books.
Find a force of some kind that grows larger and more powerful pushing itself through the zone or something, something that poses a threat to the people or the zone.
Everytime someone has tried to implement ideas from books or create their own ideas they've been somewhat attacked in some instances. Which is why I say we don't use Game story at all just the universe.
Fuck the games and books, use them as guide lines but don't follow them, alternate reality anyone? Maybe in this reality Clear Sky was never wiped out because Strelok didn't get to the center of the zone and it's still a mystery as to how to get their? This means no/little monolith as their in the center protecting it, Clear sky as a minor faction so science and fighting 'n' shit can happen, might add more atmosphere?
The zone becomes more hostile and often hordes/waves of mutants sweep over the land destroying un protected camps?
New weapons invented in the alternate timeline? Go crazy with new weaponry ideas.
New mutants?
New anomalies?
New factions?
New artifacts?
As much as HGN making its own Canon sounds good, it's been tried with miserable results. Remember the necklaces of meat chunks that resurrected people? Remember the androids? Remember the myriad of other stupid things people seem to do. The problem I see with Post-COP is that it pretty much removes any threats. Freedom, and Duty are allied. The Monolith are gone. Mercenaries have finished their goal. There is no more reason to try to penetrate deeper into the zone now.
Quote from: INA7HAN on 09-11-2012
Fuck the games and books, use them as guide lines but don't follow them, alternate reality anyone? Maybe in this reality Clear Sky was never wiped out because Strelok didn't get to the center of the zone and it's still a mystery as to how to get their? This means no/little monolith as their in the center protecting it, Clear sky as a minor faction so science and fighting 'n' shit can happen, might add more atmosphere?
The zone becomes more hostile and often hordes/waves of mutants sweep over the land destroying un protected camps?
New weapons invented in the alternate timeline? Go crazy with new weaponry ideas.
New mutants?
New anomalies?
New factions?
New artifacts?
Alternate timeline?
Differnt weapons, different factions?
Why would we call that STALKER roleplay anymore?
And Plunger has point, CoP timeline is just useless - no faction fights, no monolith..yeah.
The timeline just should be SoC, it's not like it matters.
Quote from: knife_cz on 09-11-2012
Quote from: INA7HAN on 09-11-2012
Fuck the games and books, use them as guide lines but don't follow them, alternate reality anyone? Maybe in this reality Clear Sky was never wiped out because Strelok didn't get to the center of the zone and it's still a mystery as to how to get their? This means no/little monolith as their in the center protecting it, Clear sky as a minor faction so science and fighting 'n' shit can happen, might add more atmosphere?
The zone becomes more hostile and often hordes/waves of mutants sweep over the land destroying un protected camps?
New weapons invented in the alternate timeline? Go crazy with new weaponry ideas.
New mutants?
New anomalies?
New factions?
New artifacts?
Alternate timeline?
Differnt weapons, different factions?
Why would we call that STALKER roleplay anymore?
And Plunger has point, CoP timeline is just useless - no faction fights, no monolith..yeah.
The timeline just should be SoC, it's not like it matters.
Why not do a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. SoC but instead of sticking with the games story of The marked one we just start our own story based of the key points of the factions and such.
Just my Thought.
Post-CoP storyline could be focused on various stalker factions fighting each other and the Military (Rebel's Hind and Doomburger will be happy), sometimes fighting each other and sometimes forging alliances, but making an interesting faction with it's own ranks, insignias and storyline is a chore.
Quote from: lolKieck on 09-11-2012
Post-CoP storyline could be focused on various stalker factions fighting each other and the Military (Rebel's Hind and Doomburger will be happy), sometimes fighting each other and sometimes forging alliances, but making an interesting faction with it's own ranks, insignias and storyline is a chore.
Yeah but then we get faction based RP which is what I'd guess we'd like to avoid.
Post COP is just god awful boring. There is quite litterally no conflict, just a bunch of scrubs sitting around the outskirts of pripyat prodding the sides of it going "lemme in... plz..." whilst staring at crashed choppers. That's why we chose the timeline between CS and SOC. There was conflict, factions were rebuilding, new stalkers were emerging... I think we should still stick to something close to it, but this time /NOT/ fuck up and progress with a story. Alternative universe for the events regarding SOC that leads up to something else. But the main focus on this here is PROGRESSION. Hell, it'd even help admins make events that aren't the same repeats. After all, our pandora's box is only so full of shit.
Another thing I'd personally like put out there is STK, STM and STRP. My suggestion? Fuck off with STM and STRP. Useless. I've dealt with to much of ninjaing bullshit that I have to sort out with players. If it was strict STK on fights then it'd make my job a lot easier as well as sorts out the issue of character skill with personal skill.
Which also leads me to something else, character locked weapons for factioners. This will solve a world of problems. Why is this no longer implemented?! This way factions can't complain about lack of funds for weapons. Just lack of funds for ammo! But who needs that these days?
Dealing with events... Players themselves should be the ones doing jobs and events mostly. The economy should be self-contained. When I come on the server, I don't expect myself to have to sit in observe for 3 hours making events and /it'ing everything without doing any roleplay for myself. I understand if you need me to spawn some NPC's, or do some /event's, or some shit associated with that, learn to do things for yourselves. Factions, traders and ecos should be the main distributor of jobs, not the random ass pulled admin character with a endless pocket of rubles.
Uh.. mutants.. uhhhmmm... No more collectors..? I suppose that'll do. After all, I'm really not fond of invulnerable, de-pking godly bastards that can even beat my admin powers. I mean seriously, how did we fuck this one up? Did we just let commissar and iron go ham on a chalk board to combine their characters effectiveness? Yeah, that'll do.
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 09-11-2012
Post COP is just god awful boring. There is quite litterally no conflict, just a bunch of scrubs sitting around the outskirts of pripyat prodding the sides of it going "lemme in... plz..." whilst staring at crashed choppers. That's why we chose the timeline between CS and SOC. There was conflict, factions were rebuilding, new stalkers were emerging... I think we should still stick to something close to it, but this time /NOT/ fuck up and progress with a story. Alternative universe for the events regarding SOC that leads up to something else. But the main focus on this here is PROGRESSION. Hell, it'd even help admins make events that aren't the same repeats. After all, our pandora's box is only so full of shit.
Another thing I'd personally like put out there is STK, STM and STRP. My suggestion? Fuck off with STM and STRP. Useless. I've dealt with to much of ninjaing bullshit that I have to sort out with players. If it was strict STK on fights then it'd make my job a lot easier as well as sorts out the issue of character skill with personal skill.
Which also leads me to something else, character locked weapons for factioners. This will solve a world of problems. Why is this no longer implemented?! This way factions can't complain about lack of funds for weapons. Just lack of funds for ammo! But who needs that these days?
Dealing with events... Players themselves should be the ones doing jobs and events mostly. The economy should be self-contained. When I come on the server, I don't expect myself to have to sit in observe for 3 hours making events and /it'ing everything without doing any roleplay for myself. I understand if you need me to spawn some NPC's, or do some /event's, or some shit associated with that, learn to do things for yourselves. Factions, traders and ecos should be the main distributor of jobs, not the random ass pulled admin character with a endless pocket of rubles.
Uh.. mutants.. uhhhmmm... No more collectors..? I suppose that'll do. After all, I'm really not fond of invulnerable, de-pking godly bastards that can even beat my admin powers. I mean seriously, how did we fuck this one up? Did we just let commissar and iron go ham on a chalk board to combine their characters effectiveness? Yeah, that'll do.
Yes. Just Yes.
Rebel I Love you.
No homo
Let people chose what type of engagement they want, I never had problems with STM/strp, you know why? Barely fucking anyone uses it. Keep STM and strp because getting rid of them will change literally nothing.
Also collectors are kill able me and plunger killed duran's collector once.
The Collectors will be taking a very long hiatus, yes. I was not remotely joking about that. Though to address your one series of words Rebel, never once did I say a Collector was 'invincible'. I never said they could not be killed. However, they are one of the most powerful entities within the Zone. They as you found out, make an organized army of Bloodsuckers with Controllers as generals, look like a meager pain in the ass. None of you, aside Tom and Plunger, killed a Collector, because you never actually stood face-to-face with the Collector itself. Just a fake illusion of the mind, or one of its soulless puppets that was still appearing as the "demon" due to the Collectors mental presence in the area. Something so powerful, but yet so frail, shows itself only when it has the absolute advantage in a situation.
On to the next bit. Keeping STM/STRP will still be very beneficial and I agree that the engagements should be handled by the parties at hand as they -usually- had been in the past. There are times when STM/STRP make a far more interesting turn of events, when of course people dont backflip over bullets whilst beginning a 1080 mid-air barrel roll to pop you in the head with a pistol from 300 meters. And Ill probably regret even putting this part here, but, dont wave one goddamn finger at me. Ive taken my fair share of bullets to better the situation. I dont need to win every time. i dont need to win 70% of the time. I dont even need to win 30% of the time. There are points Ill purposely close distance and force hand-to-hand and very likely knock your block off, but damn I dont do it often.
In closing, my say is final on the Collector hiatus. They will not be seen again for sometime. One will not be made without my explicit Go-Ahead. Should one return we will hammer out some finer details about them for once. Just know the last Collector took care of an old pain in the neck for a lot of you older people. Frost. And took care of those 'stones'. You owe a small form of gratitude in that regard because it put some really old bullshit to rest finally. Ill continue to monitor this thread and know that all of these ideas will be brought into consideration, weighing the pros and cons of everything to see if we cant make a new future that everyone can finally enjoy. Please continue to think of ideas/changes and get them listed here. Good evening Stalkers.
I know everyone has had this problem at one point, is darkness. You've got your assault rifle etc with your flashlight but has anyone run out of ammo with it in an event or an engagement in a dark tunnel, underground or on a dark map? You can't see anything then, so my proposal is, put flashlights on pistols please or either just give everyone a perminant flashlight roleplayed as a headlamp/headtorch which practically every stalker had for it's convenience. This would also help out the rookies who can't see on dark maps because they can't afford a rifle and only have a pistol for protection.
I think I need to be clear on how gunfights work. You pick STM, or you pick STK, and you stick with it. If it's STM no one is going to die, get that in your heads. There have been so many times during STM that I can't keep count where someone is 'accidentally' shot in an STM fight, and told they're going to stay dead. This sends out the completely wrong message that shooting someone, and saying it was an accident lets you STK be proxy.
Quote from: Plunger on 10-11-2012
I think I need to be clear on how gunfights work. You pick STM, or you pick STK, and you stick with it. If it's STM no one is going to die, get that in your heads. There have been so many times during STM that I can't keep count where someone is 'accidentally' shot in an STM fight, and told they're going to stay dead. This sends out the completely wrong message that shooting someone, and saying it was an accident lets you STK be proxy.
This. People seem to love "Winning" STM fights, even though there's not meant to be any bullets hitting you at all. Sure, some strays can hit you, but people bring that to a level of two or three stray per person per firefight, and it's so out of hand.
Quote from: INA7HAN on 10-11-2012
I know everyone has had this problem at one point, is darkness. You've got your assault rifle etc with your flashlight but has anyone run out of ammo with it in an event or an engagement in a dark tunnel, underground or on a dark map? You can't see anything then, so my proposal is, put flashlights on pistols please or either just give everyone a perminant flashlight roleplayed as a headlamp/headtorch which practically every stalker had for it's convenience. This would also help out the rookies who can't see on dark maps because they can't afford a rifle and only have a pistol for protection.
I don't know..how about, to buy a flashlight or something?
Quote from: knife_cz on 10-11-2012
Quote from: INA7HAN on 10-11-2012
I know everyone has had this problem at one point, is darkness. You've got your assault rifle etc with your flashlight but has anyone run out of ammo with it in an event or an engagement in a dark tunnel, underground or on a dark map? You can't see anything then, so my proposal is, put flashlights on pistols please or either just give everyone a perminant flashlight roleplayed as a headlamp/headtorch which practically every stalker had for it's convenience. This would also help out the rookies who can't see on dark maps because they can't afford a rifle and only have a pistol for protection.
I don't know..how about, to buy a flashlight or something?
In nexus if you bought a flashlight and used it, it would be a swep, so you'd have to switch between your pistol and flashlight like in Doom 3.
Rather than making different flags for different factioneer weapons, you could just legalize gear return and every faction fight would be GR. This would remove the time-consuming scripting and let the leaders sort out their faction armaments.
And if you think that it'll be bad, because every soldier will get a Groza, you can just make the leader make a list of equipment for every rank. And remove the "Freedom gets NATO while Duty gets Warsaw Pact weaponry" unwritten rule, if every Freedomer will have an LR-300 versus a Duty squad armed with AKS74M's it won't be really fair for Duty. Besides, there were A LOT of Freedomers who used Warsaw Pact weapons.
Quote from: knife_cz on 10-11-2012
Quote from: INA7HAN on 10-11-2012
I know everyone has had this problem at one point, is darkness. You've got your assault rifle etc with your flashlight but has anyone run out of ammo with it in an event or an engagement in a dark tunnel, underground or on a dark map? You can't see anything then, so my proposal is, put flashlights on pistols please or either just give everyone a perminant flashlight roleplayed as a headlamp/headtorch which practically every stalker had for it's convenience. This would also help out the rookies who can't see on dark maps because they can't afford a rifle and only have a pistol for protection.
I don't know..how about, to buy a flashlight or something?
As Tom said it's a SWEP the flashlight so it can't be used with a pistol therefore your idea doesn't fix the fact that pistols can't be used in the dark.
Quote from: lolKieck on 10-11-2012
Rather than making different flags for different factioneer weapons, you could just legalize gear return and every faction fight would be GR. This would remove the time-consuming scripting and let the leaders sort out their faction armaments.
And if you think that it'll be bad, because every soldier will get a Groza, you can just make the leader make a list of equipment for every rank. And remove the "Freedom gets NATO while Duty gets Warsaw Pact weaponry" unwritten rule, if every Freedomer will have an LR-300 versus a Duty squad armed with AKS74M's it won't be really fair for Duty. Besides, there were A LOT of Freedomers who used Warsaw Pact weapons.
While we're at it we can give Freedom PKMs and Duty Exoskeletons, and Duty can have some Freedom Exoskeletons.
A big basis of Duty vs Freedom wars is that Duty has stronger defenses while Freedom retains superior offensives. Duty armor should be stronger than Freedom's, and they should utilize stronger armor more often, like Skats and Exoskeletons, but Freedom has better weapons.
Quote from: Lent23 on 10-11-2012
Quote from: lolKieck on 10-11-2012
Rather than making different flags for different factioneer weapons, you could just legalize gear return and every faction fight would be GR. This would remove the time-consuming scripting and let the leaders sort out their faction armaments.
And if you think that it'll be bad, because every soldier will get a Groza, you can just make the leader make a list of equipment for every rank. And remove the "Freedom gets NATO while Duty gets Warsaw Pact weaponry" unwritten rule, if every Freedomer will have an LR-300 versus a Duty squad armed with AKS74M's it won't be really fair for Duty. Besides, there were A LOT of Freedomers who used Warsaw Pact weapons.
While we're at it we can give Freedom PKMs and Duty Exoskeletons, and Duty can have some Freedom Exoskeletons.
A big basis of Duty vs Freedom wars is that Duty has stronger defenses while Freedom retains superior offensives. Duty armor should be stronger than Freedom's, and they should utilize stronger armor more often, like Skats and Exoskeletons, but Freedom has better weapons.
There's no point in defending if you can't hit the attackers with your inaccurate weapons.
That's why I suggested making the automatic spawn weapon ak-74ms
That and I've watched rebel's military whip ass with "inaccurate" Warsaw weapons against a force of foes with "superior" NATO guns.
Quote from: lolKieck on 10-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 10-11-2012
Quote from: lolKieck on 10-11-2012
Rather than making different flags for different factioneer weapons, you could just legalize gear return and every faction fight would be GR. This would remove the time-consuming scripting and let the leaders sort out their faction armaments.
And if you think that it'll be bad, because every soldier will get a Groza, you can just make the leader make a list of equipment for every rank. And remove the "Freedom gets NATO while Duty gets Warsaw Pact weaponry" unwritten rule, if every Freedomer will have an LR-300 versus a Duty squad armed with AKS74M's it won't be really fair for Duty. Besides, there were A LOT of Freedomers who used Warsaw Pact weapons.
While we're at it we can give Freedom PKMs and Duty Exoskeletons, and Duty can have some Freedom Exoskeletons.
A big basis of Duty vs Freedom wars is that Duty has stronger defenses while Freedom retains superior offensives. Duty armor should be stronger than Freedom's, and they should utilize stronger armor more often, like Skats and Exoskeletons, but Freedom has better weapons.
There's no point in defending if you can't hit the attackers with your inaccurate weapons.
You're implying that NATO weapons are godly.
Quote from: Lent23 on 09-11-2012
The factions should have two focuses, one In-character, one Out of Character. The In-character focus should be on the faction's ideals, ie Freedom's free access and lack of "ownership" of the Zone, or Duty's destruction of the Zone and its inhabitants (The mutants, Anomalies, etc). The Out of Character goal should be to enhance the roleplay of the Neutral Stalkers (the main demographic of SRP) while still building their own character's story. This fact is something Gonztah and I agreed on and influenced how each of us would theoretically run our two factions together (provided we had both won our nominations), for the betterment of Stalkers. Creating a large area that can potentially be used to creating events and working with admins to create a huge amount of jobs for the average Stalker.
QuoteWhat I want to see: Higher levels of inter-faction activity.
Why I want it in SRP: The faction leaders themselves and possibly admins would probably have to come to a consensus, but without the factions actively communicating or vying for dominance over one another, the purpose of the factions becomes null and void. All of the factions have long term goals which cannot be reasonably completed for the sake of RP, canon, and balance, unless the canon was to become custom at some point in time. However, they still should act like they are trying to achieve those goals, as well as short term goals which may be petty but necessary. While they are trying to achieve said goals (be they long term or short term) contact with other factions becomes inevitable for whatever reasons (conflicting or similar interests, hatred for other faction, what have you). Faction "wars" (in the violent sense) should not be the primary focus, but are certainly a large part in the sense for territory control and whatever else might rise. What I'd like to see is an increase in diplomacy and strategy with other factions. (Total War esque to compare it to something relatable) Just a thought, I suppose.
A good, non ridiculous custom canon would be nice to free up some possibilities.
The only gameplay things I can think of that need reworking is how factions get money/supplies (spawn with weapons? if so, don't change any of the stats, doesn't accomplish anything imo and the sweps become exactly what they were before I worked on them and everyone complained about it)
I had something else but I forgot it
Quote from: Tom on 10-11-2012
That's why I suggested making the automatic spawn weapon ak-74ms
That and I've watched rebel's military whip ass with "inaccurate" Warsaw weapons against a force of foes with "superior" NATO guns.
Only happened because I know how to use my weapons to our advantage. Clearly i'm not going to win a fight with an AKU from a distance like the nato weapons, so we get in close and personal and fuck you up. People are just can't quite get the concept of how weapons have advantages and disadvantages depending on the make.
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 10-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 10-11-2012
That's why I suggested making the automatic spawn weapon ak-74ms
That and I've watched rebel's military whip ass with "inaccurate" Warsaw weapons against a force of foes with "superior" NATO guns.
Only happened because I know how to use my weapons to our advantage. Clearly i'm not going to win a fight with an AKU from a distance like the nato weapons, so we get in close and personal and fuck you up. People are just can't quite get the concept of how weapons have advantages and disadvantages depending on the make.
BUT GLORIOUS AK-47 IS THE BEST GUN EVER MADE, THESE CAPITALIST PIGS USE THEIR MAGIC 'POLYMER' AND THINK IT MAKES THEIR GUNS BETTER. KALASHNIKOV IS ROLLING IN HIS GRAVE AT THE THOUGHT OF MAJESTIC SOVIET MADE WOOD FINISHED GUNS EVEN BEING COMPARED TO THE FILTHY UGLY FOREIGN FAGGOTRY. THE MERE THOUGHT OF THAT IS ENOUGH TO MAKE ME HUDDLE CLOSE TO MY ORIGINAL WOOD FINISHED SKS AND TURN THE LIGHTS OFF.
Quote from: Plunger on 10-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 10-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 10-11-2012
That's why I suggested making the automatic spawn weapon ak-74ms
That and I've watched rebel's military whip ass with "inaccurate" Warsaw weapons against a force of foes with "superior" NATO guns.
Only happened because I know how to use my weapons to our advantage. Clearly i'm not going to win a fight with an AKU from a distance like the nato weapons, so we get in close and personal and fuck you up. People are just can't quite get the concept of how weapons have advantages and disadvantages depending on the make.
BUT GLORIOUS AK-47 IS THE BEST GUN EVER MADE, THESE CAPITALIST PIGS USE THEIR MAGIC 'POLYMER' AND THINK IT MAKES THEIR GUNS BETTER. KALASHNIKOV IS ROLLING IN HIS GRAVE AT THE THOUGHT OF MAJESTIC SOVIET MADE WOOD FINISHED GUNS EVEN BEING COMPARED TO THE FILTHY UGLY FOREIGN FAGGOTRY. THE MERE THOUGHT OF THAT IS ENOUGH TO MAKE ME HUDDLE CLOSE TO MY ORIGINAL WOOD FINISHED SKS AND TURN THE LIGHTS OFF.
Kalashnikov isn't dead yet.
Continuing on from my previous post.
-Stop with the over powered bloodsuckers that can dodge a barrage of bullets from 5 meters away while snapping someones neck then escaping unharmed, I understand that stronger bloodsuckers give players a reason to donate but it has gotten QUITE out of hand.
-Adding on to my previous post, bloodsuckers should stop assuming ever stalker you encounter has a slow reaction time and is shooting a weapon for the first time. Make it at least somewhat realistic.
-It is part of an admins job to help the server move forward and create events etc more then once in a blue moon, their soul purpose should not just be to enforce the rules. My previous ideas does put a lot more work onto the admins but if you want it too succeed then that's what it will require.
-Stm/strp should obviously stay. This is not a dark rp.
-The zone is based around gear and making money, you can't change that nor should you want too. Even though some people gear whore, they earned it by grinding for it or donating. You can do the same.
Will add on more later.
Quote from: PingPong on 10-11-2012
-The zone is based around gear and making money, you can't change that nor should you want too. Even though some people gear whore, they earned it by grinding for it or donating. You can do the same.
Sounds like pay to win on some f2p mmo?
Quote from: INA7HAN on 11-11-2012
Quote from: PingPong on 10-11-2012
-The zone is based around gear and making money, you can't change that nor should you want too. Even though some people gear whore, they earned it by grinding for it or donating. You can do the same.
Sounds like pay to win on some f2p mmo?
Yes, I agree with you that more than half the reason stalkers came to the zone was to make money and acquire gear, but you need to remember that's within RP standards. This is a roleplay server nevertheless, and you shouldn't be more concerned with rushing to that LR300 before even doing an ounce of roleplay. Not to mention people are so gear hungry it leads to no one ever wanting to lose / die for they fear loss of equipment. And even when they do die, they get pissy because they lose their gun.
Basically saying, Gear whoring is not acceptable no matter what way you put it.
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
I suppose I should do some more SWEP work in the future eh? I'll talk to Exile about it.
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Quote from: INA7HAN on 11-11-2012
Quote from: PingPong on 10-11-2012
-The zone is based around gear and making money, you can't change that nor should you want too. Even though some people gear whore, they earned it by grinding for it or donating. You can do the same.
Sounds like pay to win on some f2p mmo?
Yes, I agree with you that more than half the reason stalkers came to the zone was to make money and acquire gear, but you need to remember that's within RP standards. This is a roleplay server nevertheless, and you shouldn't be more concerned with rushing to that LR300 before even doing an ounce of roleplay. Not to mention people are so gear hungry it leads to no one ever wanting to lose / die for they fear loss of equipment. And even when they do die, they get pissy because they lose their gun.
Basically saying, Gear whoring is not acceptable no matter what way you put it.
I agree, it does cap and lower the quality of the roleplay experience when you have people not wanting to take any risks of losing their gear, thats because the grind on a new character to equip him takes so fucking long, that too lose it in a instance like that is rather aggrivating but also demoralizing. Yes you can argue that the zone is unforgiving etc, but 2 weeks to find enough rubles to get a gun and to lose it in an isntance of a couple minutes seriously fuckin sucks. Too try fixing it refer to my previous post about the jobs and better chance to find gear with an increased amount of risk and fear of mutants, bandits etc.
Quote from: PistolKid on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
I suppose I should do some more SWEP work in the future eh? I'll talk to Exile about it.
Make more, we should have a larger selection of weapons so everybody isn't toting around the same guns (that all suck)
Quote from: Steven :D on 11-11-2012
Quote from: PistolKid on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
I suppose I should do some more SWEP work in the future eh? I'll talk to Exile about it.
Make more, we should have a larger selection of weapons so everybody isn't toting around the same guns (that all suck)
Oh god just don't add Hologram M4A3's, and such tacticool weapons. I never liked that on other srps
Quote from: knife_cz on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Steven :D on 11-11-2012
Quote from: PistolKid on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
I suppose I should do some more SWEP work in the future eh? I'll talk to Exile about it.
Make more, we should have a larger selection of weapons so everybody isn't toting around the same guns (that all suck)
Oh god just don't add Hologram M4A3's, and such tacticool weapons. I never liked that on other srps
You mean what TnB have done? Tactical M4A3 with Masterkey under barrel shotgun and ACOG Combat scope
Quote from: knife_cz on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Steven :D on 11-11-2012
Quote from: PistolKid on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
I suppose I should do some more SWEP work in the future eh? I'll talk to Exile about it.
Make more, we should have a larger selection of weapons so everybody isn't toting around the same guns (that all suck)
Oh god just don't add Hologram M4A3's, and such tacticool weapons. I never liked that on other srps
Well something like AK-74 with a Kobra sight for the military would be OK to me. Just not accessible to regular STALKERs unless they manage to kill a soldier wielding it.
I'm going to be sharing what I think are the best solutions to some of these current problems. If you don't understand something about these or want to criticize on them than PLEASE post about it! I would love to see my words get noticed, as well as some input on them!
1) Unbalanced mutants: I think the main reason why bloodsuckers were such a problem in SRP is that SilverKnight thought it would be nice to put one of the Zone's most powerful and feared warriors at the bottom of the donation list. Not only that, but you had to pay upwards of a HUNDRED BUCKS just to get a weaker class of mutant, and another fifty to get one that was still less powerful than the mighty bloodsucker (Snork). SilverKnight has told me before that he wants to put the "more interesting" mutants at the top, rather the ones that possess the most power. The way I think it should work is that zombies and snorks can enhance the overall atmosphere of the server by fighting against STALKERs day-to-day, while controllers, bloodsuckers and poltergeists can act as a way to enable fear RP throughout the Zone. This is only possible if there are a large number of people with access to snorks and zombies, and a small number of people with access to bloodsuckers and such. Simply put the zombies and snorks at the bottom of the donator benefits and the bloodsuckers near the top and this problem will naturally sort itself out. But, in the end it all depends on SilverKnight to make the donations more balanced and beneficial for the server. So, all I can do is hope to see a change for the better.
3) Broken economy: I think the current problem with SRP's economy is that safeboxes are too big and traders are too soft. First off, I don't think you should be able to hold an arsenal of fifteen guns, three suits, and 2 of every medical item in your safebox at one time. The only thing people do with the shit inside their safebox is hoard it till they die and actually need some new items. Now, let's say the safebox could only hold four guns, a suit, and some medical items. Well, this changes things. This means that stalkers will be getting a surplus of guns through out their travels. They can either A) give them to those who need them, or B) sell them to traders. But, here comes another problem. When a trader removes a gun from the economy (cashing it in after buying it) he doesn't remove it's impact on the economy. The money he makes off of cashing in that item goes into his pocket. What is a trader supposed to do with all that money he earns from trading. Spread the wealth! Give out jobs with huge payments, right?! Well, jobs are all fine and dandy, but if you just give out the money you earn from trading to stalkers, you aren't really removing anything from the economy, are you?
I think traders should be encouraged to become as rich as possible. Encouraged to never stop growing, bigger and bigger. To keep the money, while still giving out jobs. But not giving out so much to the point where you're not growing. If this policy were to be a rule for traders, they could simply act as inflation sponges for SRP's economy. Either we make it so there's a maximum of how much a trader can give to the economy, or find some sort of goal for traders that encourages them to grow larger. Maybe some weapon and armor tiers that are only available based on how much money a trader has?)
Finally, when it comes down to paychecks, I don't think there is anything wrong with them. You get payed to stay active on the server, which is always great. Even if you are just walking around or AFK, SRP's player count on the server browser is absolutely the GREATEST first impression you can give to someone who is curious about joining.
That's all I could think of for now, and I like what all of you have had to say on these subjects so far.
Problem with that Sticky, is that you have to rely on people to not make being greedy and active.
At first, people may play along, but everyone eventually has other things to do that kills activity. As for greedy, most people are greedy to point where they won't make too high of rewards for missions. Even if they do, making a job as a trader or admin isn't easy.
Way too often the job is a simple kill things or find items. Anything more usually can get fucked sidewyas by a single player or fall apart when people think of other ways to do a job.
Relying on jobs and events to regulate the economy won't work. Events and jobs aren't easy to pull out of your ass before people know what to do everytime you announce something.
It get rather hard to make the more interesting missions for people
Quote from: knife_cz on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Steven :D on 11-11-2012
Quote from: PistolKid on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
I suppose I should do some more SWEP work in the future eh? I'll talk to Exile about it.
Make more, we should have a larger selection of weapons so everybody isn't toting around the same guns (that all suck)
Oh god just don't add Hologram M4A3's, and such tacticool weapons. I never liked that on other srps
No, but adding more lower-tier weapons instead of having straight assault rifles would be nice. Things like mosin's and other carbines would work, along with more shotguns.
Quote from: Steven :D on 11-11-2012
Quote from: knife_cz on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Steven :D on 11-11-2012
Quote from: PistolKid on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 11-11-2012
Oh and yeah. Regarding the AK's.. The AKM is quite literally a pile of dog shit. No matter which way you use it, you're pretty much going to suck with it. It's meant to be an upgraded variant of the AK, atleast make it seem like that. Its accuracy is poor as hell, the damage is less than acceptable and Its overall quality of a gun is less than the AKU. Don't tell me its good the way it is, because its not. Duty got its ass handed to it on so many occasions with those rifles, and even my own faction suffered with those POS's.
I suppose I should do some more SWEP work in the future eh? I'll talk to Exile about it.
Make more, we should have a larger selection of weapons so everybody isn't toting around the same guns (that all suck)
Oh god just don't add Hologram M4A3's, and such tacticool weapons. I never liked that on other srps
No, but adding more lower-tier weapons instead of having straight assault rifles would be nice. Things like mosin's and other carbines would work, along with more shotguns.
We've got Mosins already, they're expensive as fuck though. But yeah things like more SMGs and shotguns would be nice, cheap stuff you know.
M16A1 (Vietnam m16)
Various revolvers (Cheap revolvers I mean not .44 magnums)
Pump action shotguns, double barrel (Cheap)
Bolt action hunting sniper (Cheap, bolt action low magazine size)
.22 rifles and pistols (Cheap, low damage very cheap ammo)
Some ww2 guns like PPSH? Mp40? Kar98K?
Just some gun ideas of mine
Let's not focus on adding more guns, as that won't solve much if people can't afford them.
Quote from: Khorn on 11-11-2012
Let's not focus on adding more guns, as that won't solve much if people can't afford them.
So your saying adding some cheaper, lower-tier weapons that are meant to be affordable will bankrupt people.
Quote from: Steven :D on 11-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 11-11-2012
Let's not focus on adding more guns, as that won't solve much if people can't afford them.
So your saying adding some cheaper, lower-tier weapons that are meant to be affordable will bankrupt people.
It won't bankrupt people but it doesn't solve much.
I'm saying, more guns, low,, medium, or high tier won't solve anything.
Clearly adding more guns will improve the quality of RP, right guys? Right..?
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg62.imageshack.us%2Fimg62%2F9122%2Ftumblrm53zw9wbs21qj26ea.jpg&hash=92b1679f0977bf92d0ccfc979cee0ce22359b7c7)
Were we not just speaking of the less of a focus we should have on gear? Why are we talking about adding more guns now?
I guess adding more guns deserves more attention than anything I've previously posted.
Ok on this more guns issue which everyone keeps saying it's bad etc, it's not bad at all and if anything adds more immersion/ atmosphere. If the stalker games or our roleplay just had one pistol and an AKM it would be boring because we're seeing everyone with the same weapons meaning there is no diversity (divercity) from player to player. I know we don't have two guns but we always see the same weapons due to money problems (AKM, AKU mainly)
Added more weapons means most people will look different and they will have a more symbolic or personal weapon such as we see players etc have in games (Skyrims Steel Sword Iron helmet etc from the front cover or Fallout New vegas's revolver)
Maybe someone wants their character defining weapon as a Engraved 1911, so they buy the weapon and always have enough money for a spare if they lose it.
Another layer could use a sawn off or a Chaser 13 because their character likes the spread of shotguns over Assualt rifles.
The reason why there's so many AKMs in the Zone is because they're distributed and used mainly in the countries surrounding said Zone. It's no wonder the AK series of weapons is so popularly used, because it makes sense for a lot of them to be around the area in the first place. There should be a bigger use of AK-series guns compared to other guns for this reason.
Personally, I think safeboxes should not exist, but everybody should be able to create a permanent stash with a command that allows them to stash X amount of materials that everybody - not only them - may access. This means player-made stashes will have to be created and can be raided at any time, but you have to find them first. You can also share a stash with your friends, similar to how Strelok had his stash and his friends likely knew where they could find it.
The only sort of "Safebox" should be containers (Similar to containers used in Half Life Roleplay) that can be locked that contains all of a faction's goods in it. This way, anybody who's allowed access can get certain things, like a Faction Quartermaster keeping tallies on exactly how many weapons the faction has, and getting permission to get more from the faction leader.
Traders make a profit on selling weapons to Stalkers, and giving Stalkers jobs. People should come to a trader, and the trader should in turn give a job to a Stalker, but it should be something that the trader can make a profit from. They are Stalkers too, just stalkers that prefer to stay inside of bars and make their profits from buying and selling artifacts, weapons, and armor, rather than finding artifacts using bought armor or stolen weapons. It's not a trader's job to stimulate the economy, the Stalker economy is a by product of what traders do. Traders should not be required to give their money over to people just because, they should make some sort of profit doing things at all times, because that's what motivates all Stalkers; Money.
Stickywicket's post of mutants being unbalanced is something that I've talked a lot about in the past, though Silverknight refuses to ever change it, because people are more likely to donate if they can get something powerful quickly (for $20). After that, they don't have to donate anymore, because things are less powerful, and they already have the bloodsucker. This will never change, which is a very sad fact of HGN; Donations above all. SRP is essentially a "pay to win" roleplay, because you can start out with the highest tier of equipment if you give him $100. This is coming from somebody who's donated $150 to three different HGN servers. Personally, nothing would really affect me if the order of mutants was changed, though I would really like to see a change happen and see Zombies and Snorks become more common than Bloodsuckers.
Quality of roleplay is directly related to how much people care about said roleplay. If people are coming back on only to get power in the form of administration positions or faction positions, nothing is going to change. The server will die just as it has in the past. People will not be interested in joining the server knowing that Freedom or Duty has accomplished their goal, crushed the other faction, and every Stalker prefers one faction over the other. (Sound familiar, guys?) If people come on and want to develop their characters in their own ways, I say let them, personally. If a Stalker's goal in the Zone is to get to the center, what does he need to get there? Equipment - Armor and a good gun to protect himself - and maybe a guide. If his goal is to find artifacts, what does he need to get him there? Equipment; a Detector, and some awareness, knowledge on how to avoid dying.
I don't know if I mentioned this fact before, but Stalkers should be the main focus of SRP. Factions are there to supplement Stalker roleplay while the members are still able to be able to get their character development in. Neutral stalkers are the main demographic of Stalker Roleplay. Every main character in Stalker has been a neutral Stalker. People who join the server that are new are going to be neutral Stalkers. We should create an atmosphere where they should want to stay, they should want to develop their characters and get experience in the Zone. We don't need to try to force anything upon the players above a basic rule set. If there is a law that you can't punch somebody in the head, does that mean if you take away the law, everybody is going to punch everybody else in the head? If there's a rule that you can't wear a "special suit", is everybody going to wear a special suit if you take that rule away? Probably not. Not everybody can possibly get that rich. There's a natural, unspoken balance that happens in SRP that you simply have to watch and not restrict.
In short; Welcome to the Zone: You are an illegal. You have bypassed the Military, and you are most likely perusing riches. To achieve your goal, you need to use a weapon to protect yourself. There are bandits, mutants, anomalies, and factions fighting it out. Choose your destiny, Stalker. Will you be riddled with bullets by a Military Soldier, robbed and stabbed to death by a bandit, ripped apart by a Bloodsucker, mind-controlled by a Controller, or enter the Duty-Freedom faction war? It's your choice, now get out there and survive as long as you can.
Quote from: Lent23 on 13-11-2012
Personally, I think safeboxes should not exist, but everybody should be able to create a permanent stash with a command that allows them to stash X amount of materials that everybody - not only them - may access. This means player-made stashes will have to be created and can be raided at any time, but you have to find them first. You can also share a stash with your friends, similar to how Strelok had his stash and his friends likely knew where they could find it.
Imagine these stashes on chernobyl for example, that's just impossible.
Not to mention that you can no longer spawn your own container ; an admin has to spawn one.
Also after each crash the prop re-gains it original texture/color. Many stashes which I done in past were mostly near the trees, and they also had 'wood' material, so they wouldn't be so god damn obvious. After crash it just got its own color back, and everyone found it.
Safeboxes should stay.
Quote from: knife_cz on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 13-11-2012
Personally, I think safeboxes should not exist, but everybody should be able to create a permanent stash with a command that allows them to stash X amount of materials that everybody - not only them - may access. This means player-made stashes will have to be created and can be raided at any time, but you have to find them first. You can also share a stash with your friends, similar to how Strelok had his stash and his friends likely knew where they could find it.
Imagine these stashes on chernobyl for example, that's just impossible.
Not to mention that you can no longer spawn your own container ; an admin has to spawn one.
Also after each crash the prop re-gains it original texture/color. Many stashes which I done in past were mostly near the trees, and they also had 'wood' material, so they wouldn't be so god damn obvious. After crash it just got its own color back, and everyone found it.
Safeboxes should stay.
I'm also implying that after the Gmod 13 script for Stalker RP comes out, these problems could be addressed and worked through.
Why are we trying to justify hoarding cash? I understand that traders ICly would want to make money but what I don't understand is why that IC desire for money should justify someone being greedy OOCly.
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Why are we trying to justify hoarding cash? I understand that traders ICly would want to make money but what I don't understand is why that IC desire for money should justify someone being greedy OOCly.
Because it actually takes effort to RP chr that is not like the player in real life.
inb4 response contains stuff about animals and killing people
Quote from: Nik3 on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Why are we trying to justify hoarding cash? I understand that traders ICly would want to make money but what I don't understand is why that IC desire for money should justify someone being greedy OOCly.
Because it actually takes effort to RP chr that is not like the player in real life.
inb4 response contains stuff about animals and killing people
I don't really understand your post to be honest.
But isn't roleplaying about /roleplaying/ a character? And not yourself?
And why are we even discussing weapons? Its the Zone, stuff from Ukranian military forces which died in Zone get to stalker's hands, or stalkers bring something from their home.
I don't see why srp should get new weapons.
Quote from: knife_cz on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Nik3 on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Why are we trying to justify hoarding cash? I understand that traders ICly would want to make money but what I don't understand is why that IC desire for money should justify someone being greedy OOCly.
Because it actually takes effort to RP chr that is not like the player in real life.
inb4 response contains stuff about animals and killing people
I don't really understand your post to be honest.
But isn't roleplaying about /roleplaying/ a character? And not yourself?
And why are we even discussing weapons? Its the Zone, stuff from Ukranian military forces which died in Zone get to stalker's hands, or stalkers bring something from their home.
I don't see why srp should get new weapons.
I'm pretty sure that The Zone is an extremely profitable spot for any kind of (para)military dealer to trade in there. You'd most likely see a very large variety of gear there because of the demand.
Quote from: Jake on 13-11-2012
Quote from: knife_cz on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Nik3 on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Why are we trying to justify hoarding cash? I understand that traders ICly would want to make money but what I don't understand is why that IC desire for money should justify someone being greedy OOCly.
Because it actually takes effort to RP chr that is not like the player in real life.
inb4 response contains stuff about animals and killing people
I don't really understand your post to be honest.
But isn't roleplaying about /roleplaying/ a character? And not yourself?
And why are we even discussing weapons? Its the Zone, stuff from Ukranian military forces which died in Zone get to stalker's hands, or stalkers bring something from their home.
I don't see why srp should get new weapons.
I'm pretty sure that The Zone is an extremely profitable spot for any kind of (para)military dealer to trade in there. You'd most likely see a very large variety of gear there because of the demand.
You got point on that.
But OOCly, why do we need more weapons? We have everything we need : Cheap weapons (Makarov, TOZ, AKu), Average weapons (AKM, Mossberg, L85), and then the expensive ones (VSS, Spas, FN2000,).
You got something to shoot with, is that not enough?
Quote from: knife_cz on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 13-11-2012
Quote from: knife_cz on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Nik3 on 13-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Why are we trying to justify hoarding cash? I understand that traders ICly would want to make money but what I don't understand is why that IC desire for money should justify someone being greedy OOCly.
Because it actually takes effort to RP chr that is not like the player in real life.
inb4 response contains stuff about animals and killing people
I don't really understand your post to be honest.
But isn't roleplaying about /roleplaying/ a character? And not yourself?
And why are we even discussing weapons? Its the Zone, stuff from Ukranian military forces which died in Zone get to stalker's hands, or stalkers bring something from their home.
I don't see why srp should get new weapons.
I'm pretty sure that The Zone is an extremely profitable spot for any kind of (para)military dealer to trade in there. You'd most likely see a very large variety of gear there because of the demand.
You got point on that.
But OOCly, why do we need more weapons? We have everything we need : Cheap weapons (Makarov, TOZ, AKu), Average weapons (AKM, Mossberg, L85), and then the expensive ones (VSS, Spas, FN2000,).
You got something to shoot with, is that not enough?
Seeing the same shit for three years doesn't help and there aren't enough weapons which would for example fill the gap between Warsaw Pact and NATO weaponry.
Even if it is a hot spot, the gear brought in would be by hand and on back. Not brought in by planes or vehicles.
Military would have the surplus of items. Everyone else would be getting only used or special order items.
What kind of trader drags expensive guns into such a dangerous zone in hope of selling it to adventures and bums?
I'd think traders would wait for orders before even thinking of bringing in anything to pricey.
Considering what effort and money you'd spend to get your shit into the zone.
Quote from: Khorn on 13-11-2012
Even if it is a hot spot, the gear brought in would be by hand and on back. Not brought in by planes or vehicles.
Military would have the surplus of items. Everyone else would be getting only used or special order items.
What kind of trader drags expensive guns into such a dangerous zone in hope of selling it to adventures and bums?
I'd think traders would wait for orders before even thinking of bringing in anything to pricey.
Considering what effort and money you'd spend to get your shit into the zone.
Barkeep kept pricey shit in his inventory. I'm playing through SoC right now and he usually has G36s, VLAs, Sig 550s, FN 2000s, and other pricey guns.
Ones he probably found on dead stalkers. How many quantities does he have of each?
I thought we were trying to get away from the whole " SRP is Stalker Game " idea?
EDIT
Sidorvich and Barkeep had connections with the army and etc. Its not like Stalker SHOC or Stalker CoP had to fit to more than one player. Its a single player game. Of course they aren't going to have alot of weapons to sell, its a game mechanic.
Khorn, you realize that most of the time the only thing stopping a smuggler from getting into the zone is a long hike and the dangers of the Zone itself, right? Most people who come to the Zone are normal people that are down on their luck. When they get rich, they think that weapons like the G36 and SPAS-12 will give them an edge over the enemy because video-games and Hollywood portrays them as weapons used by elite special forces. It's the same thing with the exoskeleton.
So yes, of course there's demand.
You do also realize the danger of the zone is very great that a bunch of people get killed as the enter. Not to mention military will most of them down before they set foot inside the zone?
And you are saying the poor people in the zone all get rich? Most of them probably get stuck with the same gear until their death. Really, the only way these guns get in are through military, mercs, rich adventurous fucks, and lastly trader connections.
All the fancy guns in the game probably in some way make rounds through the zone like a dirty hooker.
Again, danger of the zone, you say it like it's not that bad. I'm pretty sure walking around the zone as a poor newbie normally results in death. Even the more prepared get their asses ripped apart by anomalies and mutants.
WE SHOULD FIX THE EXISTING BUGS
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.tinypic.com%2Fsq2yra.jpg&hash=ddf178724989e839b0ea96433a5e24937952feda)
BEFORE ADDING BUGGY NEW FEATURES
Holy balls, are we creating what is to be the Real Life Zone RP? Getting to technical with any game makes it bad. Like seriously, getting to serious makes it bad.
Over complicating things that are already complicated...
We don't need to figure out ways of how the gear gets into the Zone, because there are obviously multiple answers (Bribery, smuggling, even some of them can be built within the Zone).
We had a Lore and it worked. I don't see why we need to rewrite it several different directions.
Personally, I think we should focus on ways to keep our economy stable without having to restart it every few months because it's so absolutely fucked up by the same exact people. No-one's brought up any good ideas and that's primarily my main concern. The game became less interesting because only a small number of people were so well rooted into the Zone that they practically did whatever they wanted with impunity. Either there wasn't enough challenge or the illusion of "making it big in the Zone" was deader than road-kill, because you weren't that privilege few who had millions of rubles and so much gear you could supply the whole zone with LR-300s. So, instead of trying to directly fix the problem we just wipe everyone and jump back into the vicious cycle.
In a sense, it's like a leaking sewage system. It's leaking so everyone keeps getting shit all over them, so instead of fixing the sewage system, the hard way, they just destroy the entire sewage system and rebuild it. Sure, everyone's covered in shit but at least we'll be clean later... until it starts leaking again.
Well, thanks for sharing your idea for fixing the 'leak'.
I'm pretty sure I went over a dozen points on whats wrong with the economy multiple times.
And also, I wasn't over complicating anything with guns, I was just stating that guns weren't so common, especially the higher tier ones, which is why bringing in guns from other countries would not help.
And in the simplest terms for the dummies; Adding more guns will not fix SRP.
We've tried for an increase in prices, however it didnt fly because people complained they could no longer purchase even the simple things. Anytime a paycheck removal or reduction is brought up, its met with severe amounts of pitchforks and torches. What has not been done, however it has been mentioned on multiple occasions in the past by multiple sources, is a working damage/repair system. However I personally have not seen it implemented anywhere in the GMod community, if someone else has, then awesome share some knowledge.
There is an extremely thin line between the economy remaining balanced, and the economy taking a trip down the Slip n' Slide. As many know the factors are:
1) Equipment prices.
2) Traders and their expected missions.
3) Player deaths and Gear Return.
4) Lack of an actual server controlled method to absorb excess funds and remove them from the system until fresh pay has generated.
Among any various other causes people can think of to add to the list above.
I still believe if the server had something in place that could help regulate people money accumulating into the hundreds of thousands and higher, that the economy would find a natural way to keep level. A little tilt in the scales now and then, but thats also the threat of being where you are, one of the most naturally inhospitable places on earth due to nuclear fallout, and the first and most unnaturally inhospitable place on earth due to Soviet experiments gone awry. We can look into a "plateau" of how much money you can have at one time. We can lower pay gains for non-faction characters and up prices on equipment. We can cut pay out of factions all together except for maybe a bi-weekly lump sum that they can use to "resupply" arms and munition and possibly upgrade a few of their weapons to a higher grade/tier. We can research a possible Durability System on all weapons and suits, that frankly wont be cheap for the higher-end equipment. There are quite a few approaches to the matter, but you guys need to throw us a bone about which to invest more thought into rather than raise the banners of rage when something is attempted last minute to try and fix the problem.
Quote from: irondeity on 13-11-2012
What has not been done, however it has been mentioned on multiple occasions in the past by multiple sources, is a working damage/repair system. However I personally have not seen it implemented anywhere in the GMod community, if someone else has, then awesome share some knowledge.
A community did it and has it in their script still, I can't really say the name here given the nature of how outrageous HGN is. . . But I'll give you some hints as to what community it is
1) Silver and HGN irrationally despise it, but they couldn't give a fuck less about us
2) They're a pretty sizable community.
3) Silver likes to refer to their script as "Shitty" (Pretty sure Tacoscript was made by these cats)
4) Their name starts with a "T" and ends in "aco and Banana"
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Quote from: irondeity on 13-11-2012
What has not been done, however it has been mentioned on multiple occasions in the past by multiple sources, is a working damage/repair system. However I personally have not seen it implemented anywhere in the GMod community, if someone else has, then awesome share some knowledge.
A community did it and has it in their script still, I can't really say the name here given the nature of how outrageous HGN is. . . But I'll give you some hints as to what community it is
1) Silver and HGN irrationally despise it, but they couldn't give a fuck less about us
2) They're a pretty sizable community.
3) Silver likes to refer to their script as "Shitty" (Pretty sure Tacoscript was made by these cats)
4) Their name starts with a "T" and ends in "aco and Banana"
That's just over the top, nobody hates TnB here except a few. Their script is far more superior than WS and I doubt Silver would want to look like an idiot in front of people that actually know something about scripting(personally I never heard him say that their script is 'shit').
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
HGN irrationally despise it
It isnt 2010 anymore
Quote from: ThY on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
HGN irrationally despise it
It isnt 2010 anymore
And your point is? C:
Quote from: Jake on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Quote from: irondeity on 13-11-2012
What has not been done, however it has been mentioned on multiple occasions in the past by multiple sources, is a working damage/repair system. However I personally have not seen it implemented anywhere in the GMod community, if someone else has, then awesome share some knowledge.
A community did it and has it in their script still, I can't really say the name here given the nature of how outrageous HGN is. . . But I'll give you some hints as to what community it is
1) Silver and HGN irrationally despise it, but they couldn't give a fuck less about us
2) They're a pretty sizable community.
3) Silver likes to refer to their script as "Shitty" (Pretty sure Tacoscript was made by these cats)
4) Their name starts with a "T" and ends in "aco and Banana"
That's just over the top, nobody hates TnB here except a few. Their script is far more superior than WS and I doubt Silver would want to look like an idiot in front of people that actually know something about scripting(personally I never heard him say that their script is 'shit').
Well I know from personal experience that HGN AT LEAST dislikes tnb, also he had said to me that tacoscript was shit when I was requesting that we not use clockwork.
Quote from: Tom on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Quote from: irondeity on 13-11-2012
What has not been done, however it has been mentioned on multiple occasions in the past by multiple sources, is a working damage/repair system. However I personally have not seen it implemented anywhere in the GMod community, if someone else has, then awesome share some knowledge.
A community did it and has it in their script still, I can't really say the name here given the nature of how outrageous HGN is. . . But I'll give you some hints as to what community it is
1) Silver and HGN irrationally despise it, but they couldn't give a fuck less about us
2) They're a pretty sizable community.
3) Silver likes to refer to their script as "Shitty" (Pretty sure Tacoscript was made by these cats)
4) Their name starts with a "T" and ends in "aco and Banana"
That's just over the top, nobody hates TnB here except a few. Their script is far more superior than WS and I doubt Silver would want to look like an idiot in front of people that actually know something about scripting(personally I never heard him say that their script is 'shit').
Well I know from personal experience that HGN AT LEAST dislikes tnb, also he had said to me that tacoscript was shit when I was requesting that we not use clockwork.
The hatred stems from the fact that as HGN died last time, a significant amount of the members flocked towards TnB instead. That's about it. Silver seems to be jealous about how TnB is superior script-wise, and their community is much larger, and they have a custom canon. They also have pretty much custom everything, reflecting how the Zone might actually be.
In my opinion, they overdo it. You don't need every other person being a woman clad in a cross between an Exoskleton and a Seva suit, with steel chest plates. Our SRP has a sense of realism, a sense of staying closer to the games, a place where everybody has a common understanding of how things happen, what has happened, and why they have happened.
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Quote from: irondeity on 13-11-2012
What has not been done, however it has been mentioned on multiple occasions in the past by multiple sources, is a working damage/repair system. However I personally have not seen it implemented anywhere in the GMod community, if someone else has, then awesome share some knowledge.
A community did it and has it in their script still, I can't really say the name here given the nature of how outrageous HGN is. . . But I'll give you some hints as to what community it is
1) Silver and HGN irrationally despise it, but they couldn't give a fuck less about us
2) They're a pretty sizable community.
3) Silver likes to refer to their script as "Shitty" (Pretty sure Tacoscript was made by these cats)
4) Their name starts with a "T" and ends in "aco and Banana"
That's just over the top, nobody hates TnB here except a few. Their script is far more superior than WS and I doubt Silver would want to look like an idiot in front of people that actually know something about scripting(personally I never heard him say that their script is 'shit').
Well I know from personal experience that HGN AT LEAST dislikes tnb, also he had said to me that tacoscript was shit when I was requesting that we not use clockwork.
The hatred stems from the fact that as HGN died last time, a significant amount of the members flocked towards TnB instead. That's about it. Silver seems to be jealous about how TnB is superior script-wise, and their community is much larger, and they have a custom canon. They also have pretty much custom everything, reflecting how the Zone might actually be.
In my opinion, they overdo it. You don't need every other person being a woman clad in a cross between an Exoskleton and a Seva suit, with steel chest plates. Our SRP has a sense of realism, a sense of staying closer to the games, a place where everybody has a common understanding of how things happen, what has happened, and why they have happened.
Sorry Lent, you really don't know what you're on about <3
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 13-11-2012
Quote from: irondeity on 13-11-2012
What has not been done, however it has been mentioned on multiple occasions in the past by multiple sources, is a working damage/repair system. However I personally have not seen it implemented anywhere in the GMod community, if someone else has, then awesome share some knowledge.
A community did it and has it in their script still, I can't really say the name here given the nature of how outrageous HGN is. . . But I'll give you some hints as to what community it is
1) Silver and HGN irrationally despise it, but they couldn't give a fuck less about us
2) They're a pretty sizable community.
3) Silver likes to refer to their script as "Shitty" (Pretty sure Tacoscript was made by these cats)
4) Their name starts with a "T" and ends in "aco and Banana"
That's just over the top, nobody hates TnB here except a few. Their script is far more superior than WS and I doubt Silver would want to look like an idiot in front of people that actually know something about scripting(personally I never heard him say that their script is 'shit').
Well I know from personal experience that HGN AT LEAST dislikes tnb, also he had said to me that tacoscript was shit when I was requesting that we not use clockwork.
The hatred stems from the fact that as HGN died last time, a significant amount of the members flocked towards TnB instead. That's about it. Silver seems to be jealous about how TnB is superior script-wise, and their community is much larger, and they have a custom canon. They also have pretty much custom everything, reflecting how the Zone might actually be.
In my opinion, they overdo it. You don't need every other person being a woman clad in a cross between an Exoskleton and a Seva suit, with steel chest plates. Our SRP has a sense of realism, a sense of staying closer to the games, a place where everybody has a common understanding of how things happen, what has happened, and why they have happened.
If I am correct, it was because of them taking some of our props and models, without asking or giving proper credit.
Anyway that is kinda out of topic, we should discuss more important things. Like re-adding container system back to srp, or which cannon we will use.
Let's get back on topic please c:
Anyone think the AK-12 should be in SRP and give it to military for testing in the zones conditions? (IC reason)
Quote from: INA7HAN on 14-11-2012
Anyone think the AK-12 should be in SRP and give it to military for testing in the zones conditions? (IC reason)
How about no?[spoiler]How's about we make sure all the guns we currently have work like they should? For example, nerfing the crap out of the fire rate of
almost every gun in the server so it's actually realistic?
Fuck,
I'd do this. I did it for Fallout. Weapons never got uploaded, but I still did it for Fallout. I know PistolKid and some other guys fixed SRP guns a short while back but I don't know if they ever addressed this issue.
But yea let's fix the existing guns before we start adding slightly shinier clones of guns we already have.[/spoiler]
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-11-2012
Quote from: INA7HAN on 14-11-2012
Anyone think the AK-12 should be in SRP and give it to military for testing in the zones conditions? (IC reason)
How about no?
How's about we make sure all the guns we currently have work like they should? For example, nerfing the crap out of the fire rate of almost every gun in the server so it's actually realistic?
Fuck, I'd do this. I did it for Fallout. Weapons never got uploaded, but I still did it for Fallout.
Ask Silver then if you can do guns? <3 But weee ned liek AK-12 for militory
Quote from: INA7HAN on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-11-2012
Quote from: INA7HAN on 14-11-2012
Anyone think the AK-12 should be in SRP and give it to military for testing in the zones conditions? (IC reason)
How about no?
How's about we make sure all the guns we currently have work like they should? For example, nerfing the crap out of the fire rate of almost every gun in the server so it's actually realistic?
Fuck, I'd do this. I did it for Fallout. Weapons never got uploaded, but I still did it for Fallout.
Ask Silver then if you can do guns? <3 But weee ned liek AK-12 for militory
No, you don't. You don't
need anything more than what's already in the games.
But he wants more engraved guns to define his characterrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
More guns clearly lead to better RP.
Quote from: Khorn on 14-11-2012
But he wants more engraved guns to define his characterrrrrrrrrrrrr.....
More guns clearly lead to better RP.
INDEED OF COURSE, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT SRP NEEDS : MORE GUNS.
Chant louder boys, Exile can't hear us!
GUNS! GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-11-2012
Chant louder boys, Exile can't hear us!
GUNS! GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!
That was sarcasm, I can't really tell if you got it
How about you remove the gear pissing contest and actually make the weapons all balanced with very minor stat differences instead of "G36 rape cannon everything else sucks" (or whatever the top-tier AR was when the server was last up, it was the G36 last I played). Would remove a lot of the RPG gear-means-everything bullshit.
And every time I see the word "AKM" I get excited and then I realize you're all talking about AK74M and I get sad again. An AKM would be awesome. It's the most produced assault rifle ever made I am positive there are a million in the Zone even if they aren't in the STALKER games. Plus on an OOC level there's millions of AKM/AK47 models out there for Source games unlike the Ak12 a lot of you are asking for that, as far as I know, doesn't have anyone making models.
Quote from: INA7HAN on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-11-2012
Quote from: INA7HAN on 14-11-2012
Anyone think the AK-12 should be in SRP and give it to military for testing in the zones conditions? (IC reason)
How about no?
How's about we make sure all the guns we currently have work like they should? For example, nerfing the crap out of the fire rate of almost every gun in the server so it's actually realistic?
Fuck, I'd do this. I did it for Fallout. Weapons never got uploaded, but I still did it for Fallout.
Ask Silver then if you can do guns? <3 But weee ned liek AK-12 for militory
but
ukrainian armed forces don't even use them
The only rational guns we have added were the ones from World War 2 and FN FAL. We can add the G3, because it's actually used in the Zbrojni Syly Ukrajiny.
Also 10k for a WW2 gun which you can buy nearly anywhere as a hunting rifle (talking about Mosin) is an idea which should be shot on Stalin's orders. Mosin Nagant is a
bolt-action rifle which has a small magazine and a really slow rate of fire. It should be a rookie weapon, if we are talking about equipment price too.
Also you can't change the way of RP works unless you'll change the way that players RP.
Quote from: knife_cz on 14-11-2012
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-11-2012
Chant louder boys, Exile can't hear us!
GUNS! GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!
That was sarcasm, I can't really tell if you got it
This sarcasm thing is hard for an asspie like me.
Quote from: lolKieck on 14-11-2012
[...] Mosin Nagant is a bolt-action rifle which has a small magazine and a really slow rate of fire. It should be a rookie weapon, if we are talking about equipment price too.
Actually that's not such a terrible idea--some kind of bolt action weapon to compliment the TOZ or sawn-off as a low-tier weapon. However, I repeat, we need to fix existing features in the gamemode before adding new ones.
The AK-12 seems like a gun even less likely to make it to the zone than most of the guns that you folks say "ZOMG SOOPER RARE IMPOSIBRU TO GET HUR!" it only started being produced last year, probably only for Russian military units.
Let's be honest, we don't need more guns. Even considering the act or possibly even trying to continue it's debate on this thread is a major waste of time.
Honestly, a lot of things in this thread could be considered a waste of time.
Personally, it seems like this is all talk, no action. But I can't say I'm taking any action.
It's a thread meant for suggestions, but we're not even the ones to whom the suggestions are up to. We're just backtracking each other into a directionless debate.
To be totally honest, we can't even take action yet. The server isn't up and Silver hasn't really released any details about what's going to be added/removed or even when it's going to resurface.
*Ahem* What I personally would like to see, is an actual functioning Development team. Personally, that'd benefit SRP and HGN In general a whole lot more than most things. Having silver sit there and recoding things (whilst fucking some other thing up) doesn't exactly bring a lot of hope to people and is also a big part of the reason why we lack working content and a sizable playerbase. So, get working on a dev team, then fix the fucked up portions of our script, THEN add new shit. How about that? Everything else being discussed should be about what admins and players themselves can do to assist in making the environment itself more fun.
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 15-11-2012
*Ahem* What I personally would like to see, is an actual functioning Development team. Personally, that'd benefit SRP and HGN In general a whole lot more than most things. Having silver sit there and recoding things (whilst fucking some other thing up) doesn't exactly bring a lot of hope to people and is also a big part of the reason why we lack working content and a sizable playerbase. So, get working on a dev team, then fix the fucked up portions of our script, THEN add new shit. How about that? Everything else being discussed should be about what admins and players themselves can do to assist in making the environment itself more fun.
Look.
A perfect example of good comment which points out what we need to talk about.
Instead of your stupid weapons.
Quote from: knife_cz on 15-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 15-11-2012
*Ahem* What I personally would like to see, is an actual functioning Development team. Personally, that'd benefit SRP and HGN In general a whole lot more than most things. Having silver sit there and recoding things (whilst fucking some other thing up) doesn't exactly bring a lot of hope to people and is also a big part of the reason why we lack working content and a sizable playerbase. So, get working on a dev team, then fix the fucked up portions of our script, THEN add new shit. How about that? Everything else being discussed should be about what admins and players themselves can do to assist in making the environment itself more fun.
Look.
A perfect example of good comment which points out what we need to talk about.
Instead of your stupid weapons.
Finally. Except people have fucked over Silver in the past and now he's paranoid about sharing the code.
Risk verses reward, Silver. Are you going to just hire some numbskulls at random and say, "HEY, WANNA HELP HGN!?" Why not pick actual friends to help out? Or get to know someone, befriend them,
then recruit their assistance... Either way please just hire someone. There's a lot of stuff broken in the script that a lone dev is never going to fix on his own.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 15-11-2012
Quote from: knife_cz on 15-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 15-11-2012
*Ahem* What I personally would like to see, is an actual functioning Development team. Personally, that'd benefit SRP and HGN In general a whole lot more than most things. Having silver sit there and recoding things (whilst fucking some other thing up) doesn't exactly bring a lot of hope to people and is also a big part of the reason why we lack working content and a sizable playerbase. So, get working on a dev team, then fix the fucked up portions of our script, THEN add new shit. How about that? Everything else being discussed should be about what admins and players themselves can do to assist in making the environment itself more fun.
Look.
A perfect example of good comment which points out what we need to talk about.
Instead of your stupid weapons.
Finally. Except people have fucked over Silver in the past and now he's paranoid about sharing the code.
Risk verses reward, Silver. Are you going to just hire some numbskulls at random and say, "HEY, WANNA HELP HGN!?" Why not pick actual friends to help out? Or get to know someone, befriend them, then recruit their assistance... Either way please just hire someone. There's a lot of stuff broken in the script that a lone dev is never going to fix on his own.
Didn't we have a dev team.. Or couldn't someone make a thread asking for support from our members?
Just my thought.
Quote from: darkzerxx on 15-11-2012
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 15-11-2012
Quote from: knife_cz on 15-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 15-11-2012
*Ahem* What I personally would like to see, is an actual functioning Development team. Personally, that'd benefit SRP and HGN In general a whole lot more than most things. Having silver sit there and recoding things (whilst fucking some other thing up) doesn't exactly bring a lot of hope to people and is also a big part of the reason why we lack working content and a sizable playerbase. So, get working on a dev team, then fix the fucked up portions of our script, THEN add new shit. How about that? Everything else being discussed should be about what admins and players themselves can do to assist in making the environment itself more fun.
Look.
A perfect example of good comment which points out what we need to talk about.
Instead of your stupid weapons.
Finally. Except people have fucked over Silver in the past and now he's paranoid about sharing the code.
Risk verses reward, Silver. Are you going to just hire some numbskulls at random and say, "HEY, WANNA HELP HGN!?" Why not pick actual friends to help out? Or get to know someone, befriend them, then recruit their assistance... Either way please just hire someone. There's a lot of stuff broken in the script that a lone dev is never going to fix on his own.
Didn't we have a dev team.. Or couldn't someone make a thread asking for support from our members?
Just my thought.
I like this idea, i agree that this would benefit HGN and if we can find some people that are in the community that are trustful it would be alot easier than finding someone and befriending them and bringing them into HGN.
Quote from: Dstirling on 15-11-2012
people that are in the community that are trustful
And this is why we can't have nice things. The few people who are trustworthy already got up and left HGN, want no fucking part of an administrative or development position, or are useless to Silver as a dev.
When the hell did I become so cynical?Also it doesn't help that when someone does come along who is actually helpful, Silver treats them with a paranoia and mockery that
makes them want to leave and/or leak the code. If I had a nickle for every time I've heard; "(insert script writer) is a shitty scripter" I'd have enough money to hire a paid developer who could take the abuse.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 15-11-2012
Quote from: knife_cz on 15-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 15-11-2012
*Ahem* What I personally would like to see, is an actual functioning Development team. Personally, that'd benefit SRP and HGN In general a whole lot more than most things. Having silver sit there and recoding things (whilst fucking some other thing up) doesn't exactly bring a lot of hope to people and is also a big part of the reason why we lack working content and a sizable playerbase. So, get working on a dev team, then fix the fucked up portions of our script, THEN add new shit. How about that? Everything else being discussed should be about what admins and players themselves can do to assist in making the environment itself more fun.
Look.
A perfect example of good comment which points out what we need to talk about.
Instead of your stupid weapons.
Finally. Except people have fucked over Silver in the past and now he's paranoid about sharing the code.
Risk verses reward, Silver. Are you going to just hire some numbskulls at random and say, "HEY, WANNA HELP HGN!?" Why not pick actual friends to help out? Or get to know someone, befriend them, then recruit their assistance... Either way please just hire someone. There's a lot of stuff broken in the script that a lone dev is never going to fix on his own.
Last 3 times we gave our FTP info to people like nofearkid or zer0, it always ended in our script being leaked and they were NOT random to HGN at that time, far from it.
Quote from: Jake on 15-11-2012
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 15-11-2012
Quote from: knife_cz on 15-11-2012
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 15-11-2012
*Ahem* What I personally would like to see, is an actual functioning Development team. Personally, that'd benefit SRP and HGN In general a whole lot more than most things. Having silver sit there and recoding things (whilst fucking some other thing up) doesn't exactly bring a lot of hope to people and is also a big part of the reason why we lack working content and a sizable playerbase. So, get working on a dev team, then fix the fucked up portions of our script, THEN add new shit. How about that? Everything else being discussed should be about what admins and players themselves can do to assist in making the environment itself more fun.
Look.
A perfect example of good comment which points out what we need to talk about.
Instead of your stupid weapons.
Finally. Except people have fucked over Silver in the past and now he's paranoid about sharing the code.
Risk verses reward, Silver. Are you going to just hire some numbskulls at random and say, "HEY, WANNA HELP HGN!?" Why not pick actual friends to help out? Or get to know someone, befriend them, then recruit their assistance... Either way please just hire someone. There's a lot of stuff broken in the script that a lone dev is never going to fix on his own.
Last 3 times we gave our FTP info to people like nofearkid or zer0, it always ended in our script being leaked and they were NOT random to HGN at that time, far from it.
I feel like just by looking at those names I never would have trusted either of those people. Nofearkid? Zer0? Those names alone just scream "I'm an internet tough guy lololol".
Regardless, scripts get leaked. That's just a fact we're going to have to accept.
I'm not part of gmod's "lets DDoS stuff and fuck everyone over"-scene so its hard for me to say anything, but I just don't see reason why people leak scripts, unless notable amounts of cash has something to do with it.
Anyways back to topic. SRP pl0x.
Raise weight limit from 10kgs (22 pounds) to like 40-60 kgs
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 16-11-2012
I feel like just by looking at those names I never would have trusted either of those people. Nofearkid? Zer0? Those names alone just scream "I'm an internet tough guy lololol".
I hope that was a joke, because if you really do judge people by their names then I'm not particularly surprised why so many dislike you.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 16-11-2012
Stricter PermaKill Authorization Rules
What I didn't like: The PK policy (or there lack-of one).
Why I didn't like it: It's too easy to get a PK on someone.
What I want to see: Make some rules for PKs. My own policy for FORP was I had to have not only a good reason for a PK, but more than one person asking for the PK. I say policy as opposed to rule because it takes human judgement by an admin to decide if a PK request from one person is good enough to get the PK, or alternatively, if the PK request of 5 different people is still a stupid request because all the guy did was spit on their shoes or something.
Why I want it in SRP: People have been known to abuse the PK auths. It should be reserved for stuff worth permanently killing someone over, like infamous repeat-offender bandits or faction deserters. Not because some guy called you and your buddy names.
About Permament kills, they don't reall happen anyhow often - and they mostly do get valid and good reasons if someone is about to be PKed.
The only exception was when that failadmin and really one of the worst roleplayers I seen - Dark Angel - returned, he PKed as SA atleast 3 people, almost even me.
I'd like the idea of weigt and size restrictions on player inventories and a size limit on safe boxes, not weight.
Players should have a grid inventory thats like in the game, can only hold so many items at once. Guns and armor shouldn't be stackable like food and meds.
Safeboxes should have a larger size limit, and only restricted by size. It should be able to contain as much gear as a real foot locker or chest.
It'd be able to cut back on gear hoarders as they'd need to dump items if they wanted to get something new.
I really enjoyed reading Spade's comment on Dice.
Dice rolling /is/ RP. If any of you have ever played pen and paper, you simply didn't act upon the GM's discretion or the other players approval, you had to test for it. It does not have to be as complicated as D&D or Dark Heresy and such, it could be as simple as who ever had the highest roll won.
Discuss.
Quote from: SGT-Spartans on 16-11-2012
I really enjoyed reading Spade's comment on Dice.
Dice rolling /is/ RP. If any of you have ever played pen and paper, you simply didn't act upon the GM's discretion or the other players approval, you had to test for it. It does not have to be as complicated as D&D or Dark Heresy and such, it could be as simple as who ever had the highest roll won.
Discuss.
I guess Dice rolling is sometime - rarely - good. But it makes something so retarded that I can't even. Like I remember back..uhh well just really long time ago, somebody sneaked behind someone, with all the roleplay and stuff and then he did something like /me stabs the man with his knife, from the behind. And he rolled, guess what he rolled 5 and the guard infront of him 100. What were they supposed to do? I don't even remember, but I belive he wasn't stabbed. BUT anyway, I guess this is just an example of bad /dice use.
Actually, give me some good example of dice roleplay, never used it that much.
Quote from: knife_cz on 16-11-2012
Quote from: SGT-Spartans on 16-11-2012
I really enjoyed reading Spade's comment on Dice.
Dice rolling /is/ RP. If any of you have ever played pen and paper, you simply didn't act upon the GM's discretion or the other players approval, you had to test for it. It does not have to be as complicated as D&D or Dark Heresy and such, it could be as simple as who ever had the highest roll won.
Discuss.
I guess Dice rolling is sometime - rarely - good. But it makes something so retarded that I can't even. Like I remember back..uhh well just really long time ago, somebody sneaked behind someone, with all the roleplay and stuff and then he did something like /me stabs the man with his knife, from the behind. And he rolled, guess what he rolled 5 and the guard infront of him 100. What were they supposed to do? I don't even remember, but I belive he wasn't stabbed. BUT anyway, I guess this is just an example of bad /dice use.
Actually, give me some good example of dice roleplay, never used it that much.
That's a case of "You were already fucked. Your dice roll doesn't help you." A dice roll is for situations where there is not an obvious advantage or disadvantage, such as sneaking, or being shot at point blank range.
More like fist-fights, combat with a Bloodsucker, duels, standoffs, you get the idea. I mentioned in the other thread that I heavily utilized rolling for my bloodsucker so the
other player had a fair chance of winning. I got a nice deal of praise from most people I had RPed with.
I'll give some actual examples...Barlov, drunken and infuriated after a raid gone bad, pushes Dimitri Voyla on the shoulder as he enjoys his Vodka in the bar.
Voyla tries to ignore the drunk, and continues drinking his vodka, though he watches the shadow looming over him for any sign of danger.
"Oi," grunts Barlov, "Who the fuck you think you are?" He shoves Voyla again, this time attempting to force him out of his seat. ((A roll could be requested here, but a real fight hasn't started yet, so as the assailant, I would not request a roll quite yet. ))
Voyla is pushed off of his chair, but he catches himself and maintains his footing. He puts his palms up defensively. "I don't want any trouble. What's the problem?"
"My problem?" snorts Barlov, "My problem is little bitch STALKERs like you taking all the good seats in the bar!" In his deluded state, Barlov swings his fist at Voyla's left cheek. (( Now you'd roll!! ))
Barlov rolls 11.
Voyla rolls 13. The outcome of the attack is determined by winner Voyla.
Voyla jerks his head back in time to narrowly avoid being struck in the face, "The fuck was that for?! I didn't do anything!" Prepared for a fight, his hands ball into fists.
Barlov makes another swing at Voyla, again for the face.
Barlov rolls 17
Voyla rolls 8.
Barlov determines the outcome. Don't powergame though. Just because you won the roll doesn't mean you can instantly knock his arse out. Give it a few rounds before ending the fight.
Barlov's fist lands square in the center of Voyla's face, bloodying Voyla's nose.
Voyla staggers back and wipes the blood off his upper lip, but now he finally retaliates, swinging his foot up toward Barlov's crotch.
Voyla rolls 20 (the maximum).
Barlov rolls 2.
Voyla determines the outcome. Because of the extreme difference, I usually like to say the attack was more effective.
Barlov keels over and holds his groin after the brutal blow. It's enough that he even chokes and starts gagging like he's going to throw up.
Voyla follows up the attack with another kick, to his face now. (( Here, Barlov can't fight back in any way. A roll isn't necessary, but you could if you want. ))
Barlov takes another blow, this time to the face, and rolls onto his back groaning in pain.
Voyla raises his boot to stomp down on Barlov's face, aiming to knock him out. (( But here, you'd roll for a knockout, or if Barlov has a chance to recover one last time. ))
Voyla rolls 10.
Barlov rolls 15.
Barlov manages to raise one arm to block the attack, and instead tries to counter by grabbing Voyla's ankle to drag him to the bar floor.
Barlov rolls 13.
Voyla rolls 17.
Barlov's saving roll fails, and Voyla wins the skirmish.
Barlov fails, allowing Voyla jerks his foot free and lands another kick in the face, finishing the fight.
I've always been pro-dice. Since it cuts out the whole, power gaming.
I'd rather have shitty rolls than some asshole powergaming just enough to win.
Dice can lead to some hilarious situations.
I think you guys didn't see what Cutch did in a fight with bloodsuckers. Ever heard of a machete-wielding bloodsucker-hunting stalker who ran away from five bloodsuckers?
Quote from: lolKieck on 16-11-2012
I think you guys didn't see what Cutch did in a fight with bloodsuckers. Ever heard of a machete-wielding bloodsucker-hunting stalker who ran away from five bloodsuckers?
The roleplay was incredibly done though, but the reason it was allowed is because Cutch is a koolkid.
Quote from: Jake on 16-11-2012
Quote from: lolKieck on 16-11-2012
I think you guys didn't see what Cutch did in a fight with bloodsuckers. Ever heard of a machete-wielding bloodsucker-hunting stalker who ran away from five bloodsuckers?
The roleplay was incredibly done though, but the reason it was allowed is because Cutch is a koolkid.
That reason is pretty much why jackasses are let free to do whatever they want on the servers with little to no resistance.
I personally like to use the dice system on certain occasions. Like Spades said, its meant to be used in scenarios where it could go either way and you want to avoid powergaming. Its however not meant to even out the chances of a fight that clearly is not in your favor, I.E Hand to hand combat with a bloodsucker. That's just fucking stupid and you'll get your shit stomped on, I don't care who you are.
And regarding Khorns inventory idea, I actually like it. Alas, I don't think we could come close to doing that. We should however actually up the weight we can carry. I don't know about you gents, but I sure as hell can carry more than 20 pounds on my back, and I can sure as hell run with it. I'm pretty sure that most people can as well. Besides, the low weight gimmick we got going on right now is annoying as shit even for me. God forbid I have a suit that weighs 10 pounds. I'm fucked if I wanted to carry a gun WITH ammo. Only way around that is to load up on backpacks or certain artifacts.
And to whoever mentioned the PK thing (I think it was Knife?), I hate the PK system. PK's themselves are poorly executed and are often for OOC reasons. Commissar's idea on making more PK's, along with Dark Angel's PK spree is unnecessary. I'm not quite sure I have a fix for it personally, but it is an idea that should be addressed.
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 16-11-2012
And to whoever mentioned the PK thing (I think it was Knife?), I hate the PK system. PK's themselves are poorly executed and are often for OOC reasons. Commissar's idea on making more PK's, along with Dark Angel's PK spree is unnecessary. I'm not quite sure I have a fix for it personally, but it is an idea that should be addressed.
PKs are largely unnecessary. They should, in my opinion, be accepted by the player being killed as a suitable end to that character's story. Too frequently they're for the sake of getting rid of a pain in your ass or someone you simply dislike either in character or out. Most of it is avoidable, and I believe it's a matter of new life rule not being clearly defined. You'll have a character who, no matter how many times they're killed, will have a grudge against another and will continuously attempt to fuck the other one up. When one or the other is killed, it's that certain instance that is usually forgotten and everything prior to it is left be, which leads to one of them attempting to get revenge.
Death having meaning is a subject that was brought up a few times previously in this thread. If you want it to have meaning, then leave permanent deaths up to the ones involved, especially the victim, with a few exceptions involving stubbornly overpowered characters hellbent on being king of the shower room. Let conventional deaths have more meaning by going back a step further, and let everyone decide on what should be forgotten based on the motive (bandit robberies and kills without depth wouldn't have much of an after effect).
Let's imagine two Stalker clans that resent one another. Maybe there's a death once in a while or a spontaneous fight without much lasting consequences, but if it's never resolved and it comes down to a showdown or some other less than peaceful resolution, let that be the end of the story. You drag it out and you get a metagame war of attrition or someone's PK'd. Dejavu?
There's many things I want to give my input on in this thread, but I don't want to get too caught up in it and the majority if not all would have as much effect as most posts here.
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QuoteYou'll have a character who, no matter how many times they're killed, will have a grudge against another and will continuously attempt to fuck the other one up. When one or the other is killed, it's that certain instance that is usually forgotten and everything prior to it is left be, which leads to one of them attempting to get revenge.Death having meaning is a subject that was brought up a few times previously in this thread. If you want it to have meaning, then leave permanent deaths up to the ones involved, especially the victim, with a few exceptions involving stubbornly overpowered characters hellbent on being king of the shower room. Let conventional deaths have more meaning by going back a step further, and let everyone decide on what should be forgotten based on the motive (bandit robberies and kills without depth wouldn't have much of an after effect).
I totally agree with Yortys' idea/opinion on death having more of a meaning. I have seen many times mostly with the factions on how one would kill the majority of another and then they would NLR, but they would still hold a grudge against each other and try to find some way of getting back at the other faction. Like for example in the old Fallout RP server the NCR and the Enclave disputed over something and then they had a few little battles with no significance, which led to all out war and pretty much killed the server and factions. But back to Stalker i have seen make players and factions hold grudges against each other and it gets old. And with death meaning more i think it could help in some degree, which would lead to a better "Rp experience" for everyone else.
This just in from our dear friend Stickywicket;
The zone is surrounded by torso high barbed fencing.
The one and only, truly devastating obstacle an adventurer needs to fear, while skipping around in the zone.
Quote from: Khorn on 17-11-2012
This just in from our dear friend Stickywicket;
The zone is surrounded by torso high barbed fencing.
The one and only, truly devastating obstacle an adventurer needs to fear, while skipping around in the zone.
Yeah man, after all The zone is listed as a vacation resort. So that makes sense.
Feel free to attempt and mock me rather than counter what I actually stated. Since it seems what I said a few pages back totally flew over your head, I will rehash.
It's obvious that the Zone is dangerous, but smuggling things into it isn't hard. The cute pun you made shows just how little of the analogy you actually understood. I don't want to repeat this, but there isn't a lot separating a smuggler and the Zone's perimeter. Like I said, usually it's just a barbwire fence, or nothing at all. The reason you see lots of weapons and equipment in the Zone is because the smugglers that traders hire aren't shitty at their job. They draw up maps, make routes, and have great experience at their jobs.
The fact that you think there's a theoretical bubble around the Zone that makes it extremely hard for G36's to get in and out of it, and that the Zone is vactioning spot is very amusing, though.
Quote from: StickyWicket on 17-11-2012
Feel free to attempt and mock me rather than counter what I actually stated. Since it seems what I said a few pages back totally flew over your head, I will rehash.
It's obvious that the Zone is dangerous, but smuggling things into it isn't hard. The cute pun you made shows just how little of the analogy you actually understood. I don't want to repeat this, but there isn't a lot separating a smuggler and the Zone's perimeter. Like I said, usually it's just a barbwire fence, or nothing at all. The reason you see lots of weapons and equipment in the Zone is because the smugglers that traders hire aren't shitty at their job. They draw up maps, make routes, and have great experience at their jobs.
The fact that you think there's a theoretical bubble around the Zone that makes it extremely hard for G36's to get in and out of it is very amusing, though.
Ever consider the fact that guns aren't biodegradable?
The Zone does
not have a steady supply of guns coming in. It's the same guns circulated within the Zone
a lot more than guns outside coming in.
EDIT: Apparently my post implies no guns come into the zone ever which is fucking retarded. No, I'm saying no one except obviously the military and authorized mercenaries are shipping in guns by the crate-load.
Of course they do, but I was just addressing Khorn's post.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 17-11-2012
Quote from: StickyWicket on 17-11-2012
Feel free to attempt and mock me rather than counter what I actually stated. Since it seems what I said a few pages back totally flew over your head, I will rehash.
It's obvious that the Zone is dangerous, but smuggling things into it isn't hard. The cute pun you made shows just how little of the analogy you actually understood. I don't want to repeat this, but there isn't a lot separating a smuggler and the Zone's perimeter. Like I said, usually it's just a barbwire fence, or nothing at all. The reason you see lots of weapons and equipment in the Zone is because the smugglers that traders hire aren't shitty at their job. They draw up maps, make routes, and have great experience at their jobs.
The fact that you think there's a theoretical bubble around the Zone that makes it extremely hard for G36's to get in and out of it is very amusing, though.
Ever consider the fact that guns aren't biodegradable?
The Zone does not have a steady supply of guns coming in. It's the same guns circulated within the Zone a lot more than guns outside coming in.
Yeah, because all the new people entering the zone are just bringing in their mommas corn bread and nothing else.
My thoughts on people like Khorn, Spades, and Stickey argueing about smugglers in a nut shell
Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0#ws)
Seriously who REALLY thinks that no one would smuggle any guns into the zone ever?
I never said they didn't get in new guns that way, but it's not just about crossing a border and hopping over to the nearest trader to drop the supplies.
There is a shit ton of things in-between the outside world and the trader that wants to gut you.
And that's only if the barbed wire doesn't stop you.
And to simplify it more for Sticky, smuggling guns in, isn't a viable option as in support of adding a bunch of bullshit guns to SRP.
Since this all started on the discussion of adding more guns for no reason.
Why would adding guns be a bad idea? I mean it shouldn't be the only thing we should do, but I'm not exactly against more weapons.
So long as they are sensible.
Depends on how you do things, if you stick to the universe of STALKER, you won't be seeing many weapons that don't circulate constantly around the Ukraine.
And the other parts is the quantity. You won't see more than a handful, at best, of imported weapons.
I'm just worried about the quantity of weapons increasing too much. I don't want to walk into a bar and see people selling off weapons because they happen to have extra.
The inflation of guns will lead to deflation of their cost/worth. Then everyone in a month has an extra spare or two in their pockets.
Look at what happen to makarovs, may be the cheapest gun we had, but people had dozens of them and couldn't sell them for much. 10 makarvos for 100 rubles, since the trader already bought 20 from the last few people.
The greed people had, plus the selling off items to the mysterious T-Menu cash god, and poorly simulated and stimulated economy borked the game every few months.
So you're not so much worried about "Breaking canon" by adding more variety so much as you're worried about everyone having a small armory in their pocession
Apparently my post implies no one smuggles guns into The Zone, ever.
... Well then how do the guns get there in the first place?
I'm not that stupid. I'm saying there's not a lot of people smuggling shipments of firearms into The Zone.
Quote from: Tom on 17-11-2012
So you're not so much worried about "Breaking canon" by adding more variety so much as you're worried about everyone having a small armory in their pocession
For one, I wouldn't want to see that many guns from other countries, unless it's a special ordered gun, and if it is, it be the only on allowed on SRP. You should have the basic STALKER game ones, then a limited quantity of special ordered guns that will circulate the server. But that's a rather difficult thing to maintain due to players in general.
For two, Having a shit ton of new guns, canon or not, will be a waste of time to implement, and majority of them would rarely ever be used.
For three, if you have unlimited quantities of all guns, it would destroy that pitiful economy in game quickly. Since there are ways for people to make money quickly, either 'legally', or 'illegally'.
And the fact Silver allows a Pay-2-Win style donations. I don't know if anyone actually has donated just for in game cash, but that just creates more money in a world where money disappears for no reason, and then later, crates of money appear. Due to admins or player's activity/inactivity. AKA, player that has a few limited items goes away for a few months. Their 'limited' item goes with them until a new one is made. And then said player returns and you have another weapon back in game. Same with money.
The paycheck causes that issue to, since apparently you can get paid to sit in a bar all day watching dramas unfold around you. Or you can play the decked out stalker that is always online jumping at the first sign of a job/item, thus taking it from the more 'needy'. The players that are barely able to play get to sit around and watch as they are left poor(In-Game) due to life issues.
We have a system in general, that fucks itself over, time and time again. It literally, will fuck it's self over due to the high amount of variables that need to be moderated by admins. When ever I try to imagine what SRP's/FRP's Economy looks like, in a analogy like way, it looks like a house held together by glue, tape, nails, gravity, and a shit ton of other things that, just barely keep it standing. Put too much pressure on a few points and the 'house' breaks. And if we could, wipe the old house, and try to build a simpler, but more stable version of it. I tried a few times in FRP to get the community in abolishing the old 'house', but no one gave a shit.
Oh, hey guys. *steps on Khorns visual House representation on his way down* ...Yea that mess I just crushed... One of you wanna scrap this off my boot for me while I talk? Thanks gents. Anyway we're here to discuss things that can be a potential future to the SRP server. Calmly. Like adults. Been going good in that regard. A few off the fly comments above this, but shit happens. So we dont clog this up with Economy talk, we'll make another sticky thread just for that, 'Good idea Iron.', yea? Here are your tools *hands out foundation equipment, nails, various saws, power tools, and screws, to everyone.* Now everyone has the tools they need, with smiles! Big topic deserves its own thread afterall
You're never going to have a functioning economy because players bitch whenever anything is added that removes goods. Active bandits? Players bitch. Items disappear on death? Players bitch. Military captures you and takes your gear? Players bitch. That coupled with the "RPG elements" wherein gear is a HUGE upgrade means people are constantly striving for more and better gear.
If there wasn't such a huge difference in performance between top-end and low-end gear people would be less inclined to demand more money and demand better gear. If the Zone were real I think people would get a rifle that works and for the most part they stick with it; they won't play musical guns every week because they know the gun they have works. Also the firepower difference between an AK74M and a G36 in real life is miniscule, in game the two guns can't even compete with each other. You're encouraging people to be greedy with the RPG gear progression.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
You're never going to have a functioning economy because players bitch whenever anything is added that removes goods. Active bandits? Players bitch. Items disappear on death? Players bitch. Military captures you and takes your gear? Players bitch. That coupled with the "RPG elements" wherein gear is a HUGE upgrade means people are constantly striving for more and better gear.
If there wasn't such a huge difference in performance between top-end and low-end gear people would be less inclined to demand more money and demand better gear. If the Zone were real I think people would get a rifle that works and for the most part they stick with it; they won't play musical guns every week because they know the gun they have works. Also the firepower difference between an AK74M and a G36 in real life is miniscule, in game the two guns can't even compete with each other. You're encouraging people to be greedy with the RPG gear progression.
Without a goal to work for, there is no economy anyways. Nobody will want to buy a gun once they have an AK74M if it's just as good as the G36.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
You're never going to have a functioning economy because players bitch whenever anything is added that removes goods. Active bandits? Players bitch. Items disappear on death? Players bitch. Military captures you and takes your gear? Players bitch. That coupled with the "RPG elements" wherein gear is a HUGE upgrade means people are constantly striving for more and better gear.
If there wasn't such a huge difference in performance between top-end and low-end gear people would be less inclined to demand more money and demand better gear. If the Zone were real I think people would get a rifle that works and for the most part they stick with it; they won't play musical guns every week because they know the gun they have works. Also the firepower difference between an AK74M and a G36 in real life is miniscule, in game the two guns can't even compete with each other. You're encouraging people to be greedy with the RPG gear progression.
Without a goal to work for, there is no economy anyways. Nobody will want to buy a gun once they have an AK74M if it's just as good as the G36.
Find
other better goals to work for?
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
You're never going to have a functioning economy because players bitch whenever anything is added that removes goods. Active bandits? Players bitch. Items disappear on death? Players bitch. Military captures you and takes your gear? Players bitch. That coupled with the "RPG elements" wherein gear is a HUGE upgrade means people are constantly striving for more and better gear.
If there wasn't such a huge difference in performance between top-end and low-end gear people would be less inclined to demand more money and demand better gear. If the Zone were real I think people would get a rifle that works and for the most part they stick with it; they won't play musical guns every week because they know the gun they have works. Also the firepower difference between an AK74M and a G36 in real life is miniscule, in game the two guns can't even compete with each other. You're encouraging people to be greedy with the RPG gear progression.
There
was a SWEP revamp some time ago where they supposedly balanced the guns out. I have no idea if it still made any real difference between firepower with these guns to equalize that too or if it was the same as it had been before.
I still say add a weapon decay system. Fuck the players if they want to bitch, as long as the decay system doesn't make a gun degrade faster than a 3rd grader with ADHD who just discovered Red Bull energy drinks. Like, make a gun degrade over a period of days--not hours--depending on how much you use it.
Quote from: Tom on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
You're never going to have a functioning economy because players bitch whenever anything is added that removes goods. Active bandits? Players bitch. Items disappear on death? Players bitch. Military captures you and takes your gear? Players bitch. That coupled with the "RPG elements" wherein gear is a HUGE upgrade means people are constantly striving for more and better gear.
If there wasn't such a huge difference in performance between top-end and low-end gear people would be less inclined to demand more money and demand better gear. If the Zone were real I think people would get a rifle that works and for the most part they stick with it; they won't play musical guns every week because they know the gun they have works. Also the firepower difference between an AK74M and a G36 in real life is miniscule, in game the two guns can't even compete with each other. You're encouraging people to be greedy with the RPG gear progression.
Without a goal to work for, there is no economy anyways. Nobody will want to buy a gun once they have an AK74M if it's just as good as the G36.
Find other better goals to work for?
It's the basic goal that everybody instinctively works for.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
You're never going to have a functioning economy because players bitch whenever anything is added that removes goods. Active bandits? Players bitch. Items disappear on death? Players bitch. Military captures you and takes your gear? Players bitch. That coupled with the "RPG elements" wherein gear is a HUGE upgrade means people are constantly striving for more and better gear.
If there wasn't such a huge difference in performance between top-end and low-end gear people would be less inclined to demand more money and demand better gear. If the Zone were real I think people would get a rifle that works and for the most part they stick with it; they won't play musical guns every week because they know the gun they have works. Also the firepower difference between an AK74M and a G36 in real life is miniscule, in game the two guns can't even compete with each other. You're encouraging people to be greedy with the RPG gear progression.
Without a goal to work for, there is no economy anyways. Nobody will want to buy a gun once they have an AK74M if it's just as good as the G36.
Find other better goals to work for?
It's the basic goal that everybody instinctively works for.
Work for a better suit then.
Quote from: Tom on 18-11-2012
Work for a better suit then.
Or, you know, role play and try to get better stuff to suit your roleplay on the side. I dont know. I know for a fact when I was a player in military all I was concerned about is RP/interaction.
The goal for most people in the zone was adventure and make money for life in the outside world. Many changed that goal, or had the idea of just living in the zone due to excitement. Factions had their ideology too. Not many had the thought to upgrade their guns and gear and then live in the zone for the rest of their life. Most would leave after they made a ton of cash.
But if people want to play SRP just to upgrade their guns to the top gear, and do nothing else, let them leave. They aren't worth it.
Maybe put in an auto-delete if a character gets to a certain amount of cash, and just play it off as they left the zone, completing their goal./jk
Quote from: KingArthur on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 18-11-2012
Work for a better suit then.
Or, you know, role play and try to get better stuff to suit your roleplay on the side. I dont know. I know for a fact when I was a player in military all I was concerned about is RP/interaction.
That. It's a roleplaying server. Play an MMO if you want to grind gear. People are stuck in this mentality that their goals should be gear-related instead of based on character development. I had fun playing Omega and her only piece of gear was a 1911 and the most money I ever had on her was probably 1000 rubles; people have fun playing as mutants who have no gear at all. It can be done, people just don't like it.
Which leads to this catch-22: everyone is aware that having this system as it is is a problem but they also don't like the obviously and easy solution which is to make gear cosmetic or only offer small improvements. You can't have it both ways. If gear is the
only thing worthwhile to you then you're not really roleplaying.
And here we are, back on the discussion of guns. The fuck did we say? Players ARE going to go for better equipment no matter how you change it. Unless you forcibly lock people's equipment, they won't change.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
Quote from: KingArthur on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 18-11-2012
Work for a better suit then.
Or, you know, role play and try to get better stuff to suit your roleplay on the side. I dont know. I know for a fact when I was a player in military all I was concerned about is RP/interaction.
That. It's a roleplaying server. Play an MMO if you want to grind gear. People are stuck in this mentality that their goals should be gear-related instead of based on character development. I had fun playing Omega and her only piece of gear was a 1911 and the most money I ever had on her was probably 1000 rubles; people have fun playing as mutants who have no gear at all. It can be done, people just don't like it.
Which leads to this catch-22: everyone is aware that having this system as it is is a problem but they also don't like the obviously and easy solution which is to make gear cosmetic or only offer small improvements. You can't have it both ways. If gear is the only thing worthwhile to you then you're not really roleplaying.
You can't even kill a Bloodsucker with anything less powerful than an AK-series rifle. Try to make it fun not having any gear.
@Rebel: I see this discussion as good, as it's one of the biggest issue for this 'Roleplay' server.
It's not so much about guns, but items and gear in general. Plus gear whores.
If we go back to the old system, may as well call SRP, SGP. Stalker GearPlay.
@Lent: Not sure what you are going at. Are you talking about in SRP or STALKER? And what do you mean by that last part?
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
@Rebel: I see this discussion as good, as it's one of the biggest issue for this 'Roleplay' server.
It's not so much about guns, but items and gear in general. Plus gear whores.
If we go back to the old system, may as well call SRP, SGP. Stalker GearPlay.
@Lent: Not sure what you are going at. Are you talking about in SRP or STALKER? And what do you mean by that last part?
Bloodsuckers in SRP are too powerful to kill with anything less powerful than an AK74M
Then you fix that.
Editing a swep's damage requires 10 seconds of viewing and saving a text file. Just make all the assault rifles do (some acceptable amount of damage with some acceptable amount of accuracy) +/-5% for the high tier stuff. There you go, everything is effective, the higher tier stuff is slightly more effective but not so much more effective that it's god mode.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
Then you fix that.
Editing a swep's damage requires 10 seconds of viewing and saving a text file. Just make all the assault rifles do (some acceptable amount of damage with some acceptable amount of accuracy) +/-5% for the high tier stuff. There you go, everything is effective, the higher tier stuff is slightly more effective but not so much more effective that it's god mode.
I like where this is going
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
Then you fix that.
Editing a swep's damage requires 10 seconds of viewing and saving a text file. Just make all the assault rifles do (some acceptable amount of damage with some acceptable amount of accuracy) +/-5% for the high tier stuff. There you go, everything is effective, the higher tier stuff is slightly more effective but not so much more effective that it's god mode.
Then you do it. Don't complain about it if it's ten seconds.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
Then you fix that.
Editing a swep's damage requires 10 seconds of viewing and saving a text file. Just make all the assault rifles do (some acceptable amount of damage with some acceptable amount of accuracy) +/-5% for the high tier stuff. There you go, everything is effective, the higher tier stuff is slightly more effective but not so much more effective that it's god mode.
I was saying before...
Didn't we do this already?Or did we go back to the old retarded system?
The problem is, getting Silver to actually use the new fixes than making them.
Sure thing Lent, just get Silver to release the SWEPs which he can't do yet because Clockwork isn't out. But unless editing sweps has changed dramatically from when I last did it (which I doubt) I think that will take all of an hour to do, probably even less.
And I don't know Spades I know PIstolkid and Tom both had shots at it and I think they rebalanced them to an extent but I am pretty sure the differences between high and low tier were still very apparent (though you'll have to ask them since that was well after I stopped playing).
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 18-11-2012
Then you fix that.
Editing a swep's damage requires 10 seconds of viewing and saving a text file. Just make all the assault rifles do (some acceptable amount of damage with some acceptable amount of accuracy) +/-5% for the high tier stuff. There you go, everything is effective, the higher tier stuff is slightly more effective but not so much more effective that it's god mode.
Then you do it. Don't complain about it if it's ten seconds.
Someone sounds upset.