Trader Suggestions and Complaints

[Khorn]

This Thread is for Suggestions and Complaints about Traders in FORP.

Nothing else.

[lolKieck]

For 2 weeks, you should make the trader auth optional, because Paintcheck will be messaged lotsa times and there are no other traders (at the roster).

[Khorn]

It's a temporary thing, at first it won't be in place. But afterward it will be.

[Spades_Neil]

Ah, so I can apply with two admin approvals then?

[Recreas]

Ah, so I can apply with two admin approvals then?

As Khorn just said that today, I probably guess it is. So go ahead. And besides if you get denied for having no trader rec you can just add it later right.

[Spades_Neil]

Ah, so I can apply with two admin approvals then?

As Khorn just said that today, I probably guess it is. So go ahead. And besides if you get denied for having no trader rec you can just add it later right.

Alright. I have 1/2 of my admin recs already. Just waiting on the other. Unfortunately I know so few admins. :P

[Khorn]

Yes, the trader recommendation is temporarily negated since we have no traders.


Thing is though, this is still work in progress. LE still needs to help me with the rules, since I don't know the tiers, if their will be tiers, and how they are going to be distributed.

[Spades_Neil]

Yes, the trader recommendation is temporarily negated since we have no traders.


Thing is though, this is still work in progress. LE still needs to help me with the rules, since I don't know the tiers, if their will be tiers, and how they are going to be distributed.

Alright. Though I have 1/2 admin approvals, the 2nd one I asked said he was ordered to hold off on future recs... so yea. I don't know if this is still on hold or if it only applies to TO's.

I personally don't think there should be tiers for the traders. Why not? Everything has a price, and not everyone can afford that price. Just make sure that price is suitable and balanced in our game if possible. Raise the price on high tier items, drop the price on other items. If you want to play with tiered traders (such as faction suppliers) THEN you can maybe lower the price for faction specific guns for those people. Make sense? That's just my idea however.

The rules already state a trader isn't someone who goes around killing and maiming people. It's rather counter productive for business anyway. Though I do think it'd be stupid to allow a trader to handle ANY alien tech or a fatboy. Everything else however is fair game.

[Khorn]

I'm only maintaining the forum.

The rules are up to LE. If he wants tiers, we got them.

[Spades_Neil]

I'm only maintaining the forum.

The rules are up to LE. If he wants tiers, we got them.

Ahhh, I see. I'm looking forward to becoming a trader. Though I need to wait until this 'hold' on admin recs/authorizations ends so I can get my remaining screenshot.

[Recreas]

Tiers are actually usefull untill the moment where the economy starts too crash and nobody wants the basic items anymore because they are have uber l33t power armor and gattling guns.
But I hope that will take a while.

[Spades_Neil]

Tiers are actually usefull untill the moment where the economy starts too crash and nobody wants the basic items anymore because they are have uber l33t power armor and gattling guns.
But I hope that will take a while.

Not sure how this works. We get plenty of new players all the time so there's always a bottom class--and traders would not only be dummies but also be unfair to newbies if they only carried high powered weapons. My plans as a trader, if I get the position, is more about letting all players enjoy the fruits (or rather firepower) of their labor rather than being suppressed by the other two factions charging stupid high prices for the weapons they don't want wasters to have, then selling everything else dirt cheap.

[Recreas]

No, you're getting it wrong. What I mean is that at some point the economy would crash if there isn't a flow of new players. This isn't happening yet and I hope it won't for a while, but at the moment everbody does have power armor and only the newbies need small handguns the traders with low tier flags would be useless.

[Spades_Neil]

No, you're getting it wrong. What I mean is that at some point the economy would crash if there isn't a flow of new players. This isn't happening yet and I hope it won't for a while, but at the moment everbody does have power armor and only the newbies need small handguns the traders with low tier flags would be useless.

Oh, I understand now.

[Spades_Neil]

Back to bother the thread some more. I'm slightly confused on something else.

Just for the sake of suggestion: I suggest a Q/A and FAQ thread here in the Trader section of the forum.

Now here's my complaint. When I received T-flag today, I had it for all of 2 minutes, sold a pair of shotgun shells, and it was immediately taken away. Not because I had done something wrong, but because apparently the T-flags themselves are quite indiscriminate at this moment. However, to those who HAVE the T-flag, aren't we trusted enough not to abuse these powers? I mean, wasn't that the whole PURPOSE of applying? Otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time! I'm already a trader! If there are certain things you don't want us buying, fine. As foolish as I think that is, just tell us or list it in the rules. Allegedly there's also a tier system being set into place, which is foolish especially for those of us who have ALREADY BEEN traders for quite some time as mentioned prior. I mean, I have a shop, a full stock of guns and ammo, whole nine yards. What I'm always running short on however is ammunition! If nothing else, at LEAST give me ammo!

Apparently, the trader menu from what I've seen doesn't even offer guns. That's fine for now. I like trading with wasters for new and interesting firearms. It's ammo that it feels like no one ever has.

In addition, I get a lot of crap items that the noobs use to make up for their lack of money. Items that don't sell, basically. I usually refuse them any trade. If you want an economy to actually work, you need to give -everyone- at least somewhat of a fair chance. At least with the cash option I have with T-flags, I can convert all their crap into pure hard cash that can be invested back into the game's economy. Also gives an actual purpose to junk items (assuming they even give a single cap upon cashing them).

I don't like the idea of tiers either. That means that people with top tiers can monopolize the market for higher grade items like the former Frankies' Republic did. Also absolutely no one has explained how we're supposed to rank up. That's bullshit, for lack of a better statement. All traders should have equal opportunities--at least for the moment. If this doesn't work out, change it later on. However, for the time being, give us back our T-flags. If there are still certain things you don't want us dicking about with despite my argument for an open market, tell us! I'm pretty damn sure it's easy to figure out if someone is spawning certain items. I mean, you admins have the console don't you?

Tiers shouldn't exist. Classes, however, should exist. Kira for instance is an arms dealer. She's also NOT a wandering merchant. She's had an established shop since only a few days after we switched to rp_apocalypse. Everyone knows who she is, and she SHOULD have everything a gunman needs, but she's also not frequently outside of her shop. Meanwhile other traders might specialize in other dealings such as medical supplies, food, clothes, armor, junk, etc. It's likely Arms Dealing will be most popular, but Kira is currently the ONLY proclaimed arms dealer in the entirety of our player base that I know of. If you're going to set up classes, give Kira access to all guns and all ammo (within reason, no alien shit or fatmans obviously). If we find a market for other specialty items do the same thing by setting up classes.

In conclusion, especially considering how EARLY ON we are in the whole trader business, I strongly recommend just giving back the T-flag to those who applied and were approved for it. Continue doing your tweaks as deemed necessary, but for the love of economic, PLEASE consult us traders! Especially us real-life business folk and business students on these things! We know what the hell we're talking about!

Thus concludes my suggestions and complaints. I hope you'll take my advice on these matters.

[Khorn]

First, tiers are being use because Last Exile wants it.

Second, I was trying to ask him about the flags and what they contained, I figured most out. Some flags seem to clash with others, ex. 2 flags contain guns while 1 provides ammo and the other provides armor.

Third, I personally think the players that applied with well known characters should be higher ranked.

Fourth, to get a higher rank, you need to be active and provide much to other players. If you do well, you get promoted.

Fifth, to get more flags, in SRP, you would need to apply for more. Maybe it will be different here.

Sixth, you should get the cash option to exchange junk for caps. Wasters shouldn't since it makes less sense ICly.

As for others, no one but those accepted should have flags, why Exile alllows this, I don't know.

[Tom]

The reason I took it away, was One, the issue of "Its not ready yet".

But SK wants ammo to be hard to come by, and wants a system where scavenging is a must.

In Stalker you get your shit from traders who buy from outside the zone.

In Fallout you can buy from traders who either A)Make the shit or buy from other traders, or B) They scavenge for it or pay others to scavenge for it.

If you play the FO games Ammo is pretty rare, and you have to conserve the shit.

If we gave you T and other acess, its like you have infinite ammos and guns and suits out the ass and you get a Stalker economy, If SIlver had more admins spawning stashes (IE he gives someone eles other than myself SV) then the economy will work. But trader menu will lead to the "Don't worry I can buy ammo" mentality and no one will try or attempt to conserve there shit.

Tiers came into play back after we switched from cakescript to Nexus, when back in Cake, you did start out with all the goodies in the game, the thing was it made little sense for a newbie trader to suddenly know how to aquire SVD's and G36's and Skats, so the Tier system came out.

I think Silver is working on the tier system, but is leaning more on a scavenge heavy economy, but the thing is One admin spawning stashes is shit, cause I am one admin, if he had not gotten rid of 2 SA's like a fucking retard for no reason at all, we could afford to promote one SA to SV so that we would have 2 SV's spawning stashes instead of one.

[Spades_Neil]

First, tiers are being use because Last Exile wants it.

Baw, fine.

Second, I was trying to ask him about the flags and what they contained, I figured most out. Some flags seem to clash with others, ex. 2 flags contain guns while 1 provides ammo and the other provides armor.

This DOES need to be fixed. I for example need guns and ammo (maybe or maybe not laser weapons), probably armor and maybe meds, but certain things I flat out won't sell such as food or chems.

Third, I personally think the players that applied with well known characters should be higher ranked.

Yes. It's one thing if they're coming in out of the blue two weeks from now to be a trader--but right now there already are successful traders who should be at least one, if not two, ranks above the other newcomers.

Fourth, to get a higher rank, you need to be active and provide much to other players. If you do well, you get promoted.

That's really unspecific, that's why I don't like it. :<

Fifth, to get more flags, in SRP, you would need to apply for more. Maybe it will be different here.

I'm an arms dealer. No more no less. Make a flag that gives me guns and ammo (minus laser tech and power armor) and I'll be all set. Give me armor and/or meds if you want to. I'd use that more for supplying my own body guards.

Sixth, you should get the cash option to exchange junk for caps. Wasters shouldn't since it makes less sense ICly.

Well, yea. For the noobs however, it'll help their scavenging for empty nuka cola bottles and other crap actually be worth a tiny bit of their time.

As for others, no one but those accepted should have flags, why Exile allows this, I don't know.

Well like I said, we had our flags briefly then had them removed.

The reason I took it away, was One, the issue of "Its not ready yet".

You're right it's not ready yet. What damage we can do with it not being ready yet is unknown to me, however.

But SK wants ammo to be hard to come by, and wants a system where scavenging is a must. In Stalker you get your shit from traders who buy from outside the zone.

This isn't going to get solved until several ammo glitches are fixed, actually.

In Fallout you can buy from traders who either A)Make the shit or buy from other traders, or B) They scavenge for it or pay others to scavenge for it. If you play the FO games Ammo is pretty rare, and you have to conserve the shit.

Ammo is hardly cheap. However, even with the exploitations in the game, it's not like people are running and gunning about constantly.

If we gave you T and other access, its like you have infinite ammos and guns and suits out the ass and you get a Stalker economy, If Silver had more admins spawning stashes (IE he gives someone eles other than myself SV) then the economy will work. But trader menu will lead to the "Don't worry I can buy ammo" mentality and no one will try or attempt to conserve there shit.

I never leave my shop. Someone wants ammo, I can't ass-pull it. :P That's already a rule for traders not to ass-pull items. Though I think your idea of economy is a little opposite of what the real-world term is. An economy relies on spending money. It sounds like you and Exile don't want people spending any money, or you want the income to rely more on scavenging, and you don't want them wasting ammo because they know they can.

I respectfully disagree with this standpoint. For one, ammo isn't exactly cheap. Certain ammo prices need to be tweaked I think, like shotgun shells need to be raised while others may need to be lowered, but back to my point. Yes, the economy DOES need more scavenging to allow its self to work. If traders however have their flags, this doesn't mean that everyone can get a trader to ass-pull ammo and here's why: Ammunition is still expensive. Wasters only make 5 caps per paycheck, and a box of 9mm from me costs 100 caps! They're not going to be wasting ammo at random, I promise you this. Unless the prices get stupid-low, then this is not going to be a problem even if I have an infinite source of ammo.

Meanwhile, the factions who can afford it, they should NOT be needing to conserve ammo. They make far more money, they are far more organized, and basically the natural cycles of capitalism allows them to purchase more weapons without it unbalancing the game. Make sense?

Hope I can convince you. Really I just want my T-flag back. xD If I fuck up you can always take it away and yell at me.

Tiers came into play back after we switched from cakescript to Nexus, when back in Cake, you did start out with all the goodies in the game, the thing was it made little sense for a newbie trader to suddenly know how to aquire SVD's and G36's and Skats, so the Tier system came out.

Ok, I guess this is a good point. Though like Khorn said, the traders who've been trading for a long time like me, like Jakob, like others, should already have access to the better goodies.

Hell I'll even draw the line for myself. Should I, a wasteland arms dealer, have free access to laser weapons? Fuck no! But all ballistics? Hell yea! I've already seen everything go through my shop, including laser weapons, but my specialty are the ballistics most commonly used by everyone else. I just want access to all ballistics, perhaps even including some guns the game hasn't seen yet because no one has scavved it.

However, I don't want to see laser pistols, rifles, gatling lasers, plasma guns, and alien things appearing in my inventory. Give those to the BoS and Enclave suppliers.

I think Silver is working on the tier system, but is leaning more on a scavenge heavy economy, but the thing is One admin spawning stashes is shit, cause I am one admin, if he had not gotten rid of 2 SA's like a fucking retard for no reason at all, we could afford to promote one SA to SV so that we would have 2 SV's spawning stashes instead of one.

Well it certainly wasn't for no reason, but let's not get into that here. :P Last thing we need is us having a civilized conversation then some derp turns it into a shitstorm.

[Tom]

You will be able to spend, you'll just need to find the weapons/ammo/make the ammo/find the suits, instead of having infinite inventories in the trader menu. Sure, you may RP having a limited supply of ammo, but then again, I've heard people on SRP say, "Oh shit dawg im gonna rp not having this kinda ammo, and not having unlimited supplies bro cause im a newbie!" THere where few that did, I can count all of them on one hand (At least all the ones I knew on one hand) I think what I may ask him is. . . Every week or so, caravaners (Me) will drop by each shop and drop a random amount of inventory at each shop, Will it be alot? No, will it work? Maybe. It may be free, it probally won't be though, and all the proceeds of what you buy will go toward stashes being made around the map/events, does this sound like a good idea?

[Spades_Neil]

You will be able to spend, you'll just need to find the weapons/ammo/make the ammo/find the suits, instead of having infinite inventories in the trader menu. Sure, you may RP having a limited supply of ammo, but then again, I've heard people on SRP say, "Oh shit dawg im gonna rp not having this kinda ammo, and not having unlimited supplies bro cause im a newbie!" THere where few that did, I can count all of them on one hand (At least all the ones I knew on one hand) I think what I may ask him is. . . Every week or so, caravaners (Me) will drop by each shop and drop a random amount of inventory at each shop, Will it be alot? No, will it work? Maybe. It may be free, it probally won't be though, and all the proceeds of what you buy will go toward stashes being made around the map/events, does this sound like a good idea?

Weekly supply dumps, free or not, actually sound like a really good idea. If they're not free though they ought to be as cheap as possible or traders will make no profit--especially considering that someone decided it was a good idea to nerf the paycheck system in-game. Though I don't think it's a good idea to have it totally random. The traders know what people are buying. They know what they need more of and what they need less of. I'd like to say open a forum thread for orders on whatever items are wanted, but I have a bad feeling this could get way too complicated.

[Wolfinton]

I don't really like that idea. Nore do I like trader flags idea. The best option currently is the scavenging one, but Exile needs to allow another SV in order for that to work correctly. Since only Supervisors can spawn items, AKA Tom, they only come once or tiwce a day. While good for some, that is a nightmare for others due to different time zones. Not awake when Tom is awake? Poor you.

[Spades_Neil]

I don't really like that idea. Nore do I like trader flags idea. The best option currently is the scavenging one, but Exile needs to allow another SV in order for that to work correctly. Since only Supervisors can spawn items, AKA Tom, they only come once or tiwce a day. While good for some, that is a nightmare for others due to different time zones. Not awake when Tom is awake? Poor you.

The map constantly get SCRAPED clean by all the players. Unfortunately as of lately all of the old indoor hiding spots are now 'occupied' in one way or another.

Really, I've said many times, we need to get creative with the way items are obtained in the FORP in some cases.

[Khorn]

Well, I sugget you brain storm some new ideas.

We got NPCs that drop items at random.
We got scrap piles.
We get some stashes, generally found in 5 minutes.

You can rob people for items.

And what do you mean all the indoor spots are occupied? Only places like that should be main faction bases.
and you can also build a hut if you need one.

[Spades_Neil]

We got NPCs that drop items at random.
We got scrap piles.
We get some stashes, generally found in 5 minutes.

Moar NPC drops would be nice--though zombies tend to fuck up the server we've noticed. Not sure if this bug still exists.

You can rob people for items.

Just no. This is the worst possible thing that could happen to our server. Everyone will be focused on killing each other for the best good rather than entertaining RP. We've been afraid of this happening long before traders were even considered.

And what do you mean all the indoor spots are occupied? Only places like that should be main faction bases.
and you can also build a hut if you need one.

Well someone screwed up then. The spawn town for example is occupied by the "Vincetti family" or whatever the hell their name was. I own Kira's Karbines in that old warehouse. Houses scattered in the wastes are also occupied. BoS city. Crazy Pete took over that place in the cliffs with the tiny shanty town. I think the lakeside house is the only spot without someone living there.

[Khorn]

I never said anything about killing players for stuff.

Not once. I even wrote a guide up for SRP to help improve banditry sometime ago.

If you think robbing people involves only killing without RP, well then you only met lolbandits.