This Thread is for Suggestions and Complaints about Traders in FORP.
Nothing else.
For 2 weeks, you should make the trader auth optional, because Paintcheck will be messaged lotsa times and there are no other traders (at the roster).
It's a temporary thing, at first it won't be in place. But afterward it will be.
Ah, so I can apply with two admin approvals then?
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 02-04-2011
Ah, so I can apply with two admin approvals then?
As Khorn just said that today, I probably guess it is. So go ahead. And besides if you get denied for having no trader rec you can just add it later right.
Quote from: Recreas on 02-04-2011
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 02-04-2011
Ah, so I can apply with two admin approvals then?
As Khorn just said that today, I probably guess it is. So go ahead. And besides if you get denied for having no trader rec you can just add it later right.
Alright. I have 1/2 of my admin recs already. Just waiting on the other. Unfortunately I know so few admins. :P
Yes, the trader recommendation is temporarily negated since we have no traders.
Thing is though, this is still work in progress. LE still needs to help me with the rules, since I don't know the tiers, if their will be tiers, and how they are going to be distributed.
Quote from: Khorn on 02-04-2011
Yes, the trader recommendation is temporarily negated since we have no traders.
Thing is though, this is still work in progress. LE still needs to help me with the rules, since I don't know the tiers, if their will be tiers, and how they are going to be distributed.
Alright. Though I have 1/2 admin approvals, the 2nd one I asked said he was ordered to hold off on future recs... so yea. I don't know if this is still on hold or if it only applies to TO's.
I personally don't think there should be tiers for the traders. Why not? Everything has a price, and not everyone can afford that price. Just make sure that price is suitable and balanced in our game if possible. Raise the price on high tier items, drop the price on other items. If you want to play with tiered traders (such as faction suppliers) THEN you can maybe lower the price for faction specific guns for those people. Make sense? That's just my idea however.
The rules already state a trader isn't someone who goes around killing and maiming people. It's rather counter productive for business anyway. Though I do think it'd be stupid to allow a trader to handle ANY alien tech or a fatboy. Everything else however is fair game.
I'm only maintaining the forum.
The rules are up to LE. If he wants tiers, we got them.
Quote from: Khorn on 02-04-2011
I'm only maintaining the forum.
The rules are up to LE. If he wants tiers, we got them.
Ahhh, I see. I'm looking forward to becoming a trader. Though I need to wait until this 'hold' on admin recs/authorizations ends so I can get my remaining screenshot.
Tiers are actually usefull untill the moment where the economy starts too crash and nobody wants the basic items anymore because they are have uber l33t power armor and gattling guns.
But I hope that will take a while.
Quote from: Recreas on 02-04-2011
Tiers are actually usefull untill the moment where the economy starts too crash and nobody wants the basic items anymore because they are have uber l33t power armor and gattling guns.
But I hope that will take a while.
Not sure how this works. We get plenty of new players all the time so there's always a bottom class--and traders would not only be dummies but also be unfair to newbies if they only carried high powered weapons. My plans as a trader, if I get the position, is more about letting all players enjoy the fruits (or rather firepower) of their labor rather than being suppressed by the other two factions charging stupid high prices for the weapons they don't want wasters to have, then selling everything else dirt cheap.
No, you're getting it wrong. What I mean is that at some point the economy would crash if there isn't a flow of new players. This isn't happening yet and I hope it won't for a while, but at the moment everbody does have power armor and only the newbies need small handguns the traders with low tier flags would be useless.
Quote from: Recreas on 03-04-2011
No, you're getting it wrong. What I mean is that at some point the economy would crash if there isn't a flow of new players. This isn't happening yet and I hope it won't for a while, but at the moment everbody does have power armor and only the newbies need small handguns the traders with low tier flags would be useless.
Oh, I understand now.
Back to bother the thread some more. I'm slightly confused on something else.
Just for the sake of suggestion: I suggest a Q/A and FAQ thread here in the Trader section of the forum.
Now here's my complaint. When I received T-flag today, I had it for all of 2 minutes, sold a pair of shotgun shells, and it was immediately taken away. Not because I had done something wrong, but because apparently the T-flags themselves are quite indiscriminate at this moment. However, to those who HAVE the T-flag, aren't we trusted enough not to abuse these powers? I mean, wasn't that the whole PURPOSE of applying? Otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time! I'm already a trader! If there are certain things you don't want us buying, fine. As foolish as I think that is, just tell us or list it in the rules. Allegedly there's also a tier system being set into place, which is foolish especially for those of us who have ALREADY BEEN traders for quite some time as mentioned prior. I mean, I have a shop, a full stock of guns and ammo, whole nine yards. What I'm always running short on however is ammunition! If nothing else, at LEAST give me ammo!
Apparently, the trader menu from what I've seen doesn't even offer guns. That's fine for now. I like trading with wasters for new and interesting firearms. It's ammo that it feels like no one ever has.
In addition, I get a lot of crap items that the noobs use to make up for their lack of money. Items that don't sell, basically. I usually refuse them any trade. If you want an economy to actually work, you need to give -everyone- at least somewhat of a fair chance. At least with the cash option I have with T-flags, I can convert all their crap into pure hard cash that can be invested back into the game's economy. Also gives an actual purpose to junk items (assuming they even give a single cap upon cashing them).
I don't like the idea of tiers either. That means that people with top tiers can monopolize the market for higher grade items like the former Frankies' Republic did. Also absolutely no one has explained how we're supposed to rank up. That's bullshit, for lack of a better statement. All traders should have equal opportunities--at least for the moment. If this doesn't work out, change it later on. However, for the time being, give us back our T-flags. If there are still certain things you don't want us dicking about with despite my argument for an open market, tell us! I'm pretty damn sure it's easy to figure out if someone is spawning certain items. I mean, you admins have the console don't you?
Tiers shouldn't exist. Classes, however, should exist. Kira for instance is an arms dealer. She's also NOT a wandering merchant. She's had an established shop since only a few days after we switched to rp_apocalypse. Everyone knows who she is, and she SHOULD have everything a gunman needs, but she's also not frequently outside of her shop. Meanwhile other traders might specialize in other dealings such as medical supplies, food, clothes, armor, junk, etc. It's likely Arms Dealing will be most popular, but Kira is currently the ONLY proclaimed arms dealer in the entirety of our player base that I know of. If you're going to set up classes, give Kira access to all guns and all ammo (within reason, no alien shit or fatmans obviously). If we find a market for other specialty items do the same thing by setting up classes.
In conclusion, especially considering how EARLY ON we are in the whole trader business, I strongly recommend just giving back the T-flag to those who applied and were approved for it. Continue doing your tweaks as deemed necessary, but for the love of economic, PLEASE consult us traders! Especially us real-life business folk and business students on these things! We know what the hell we're talking about!
Thus concludes my suggestions and complaints. I hope you'll take my advice on these matters.
First, tiers are being use because Last Exile wants it.
Second, I was trying to ask him about the flags and what they contained, I figured most out. Some flags seem to clash with others, ex. 2 flags contain guns while 1 provides ammo and the other provides armor.
Third, I personally think the players that applied with well known characters should be higher ranked.
Fourth, to get a higher rank, you need to be active and provide much to other players. If you do well, you get promoted.
Fifth, to get more flags, in SRP, you would need to apply for more. Maybe it will be different here.
Sixth, you should get the cash option to exchange junk for caps. Wasters shouldn't since it makes less sense ICly.
As for others, no one but those accepted should have flags, why Exile alllows this, I don't know.
The reason I took it away, was One, the issue of "Its not ready yet".
But SK wants ammo to be hard to come by, and wants a system where scavenging is a must.
In Stalker you get your shit from traders who buy from outside the zone.
In Fallout you can buy from traders who either A)Make the shit or buy from other traders, or B) They scavenge for it or pay others to scavenge for it.
If you play the FO games Ammo is pretty rare, and you have to conserve the shit.
If we gave you T and other acess, its like you have infinite ammos and guns and suits out the ass and you get a Stalker economy, If SIlver had more admins spawning stashes (IE he gives someone eles other than myself SV) then the economy will work. But trader menu will lead to the "Don't worry I can buy ammo" mentality and no one will try or attempt to conserve there shit.
Tiers came into play back after we switched from cakescript to Nexus, when back in Cake, you did start out with all the goodies in the game, the thing was it made little sense for a newbie trader to suddenly know how to aquire SVD's and G36's and Skats, so the Tier system came out.
I think Silver is working on the tier system, but is leaning more on a scavenge heavy economy, but the thing is One admin spawning stashes is shit, cause I am one admin, if he had not gotten rid of 2 SA's like a fucking retard for no reason at all, we could afford to promote one SA to SV so that we would have 2 SV's spawning stashes instead of one.
Quote from: Khorn on 05-04-2011
First, tiers are being use because Last Exile wants it.
Baw, fine.
Quote from: Khorn on 05-04-2011
Second, I was trying to ask him about the flags and what they contained, I figured most out. Some flags seem to clash with others, ex. 2 flags contain guns while 1 provides ammo and the other provides armor.
This DOES need to be fixed. I for example need guns and ammo (maybe or maybe not laser weapons), probably armor and maybe meds, but certain things I flat out won't sell such as food or chems.
Quote from: Khorn on 05-04-2011
Third, I personally think the players that applied with well known characters should be higher ranked.
Yes. It's one thing if they're coming in out of the blue two weeks from now to be a trader--but right now there already are successful traders who should be at least one, if not two, ranks above the other newcomers.
Quote from: Khorn on 05-04-2011
Fourth, to get a higher rank, you need to be active and provide much to other players. If you do well, you get promoted.
That's really unspecific, that's why I don't like it. :<
Quote from: Khorn on 05-04-2011
Fifth, to get more flags, in SRP, you would need to apply for more. Maybe it will be different here.
I'm an arms dealer. No more no less. Make a flag that gives me guns and ammo (minus laser tech and power armor) and I'll be all set. Give me armor and/or meds if you want to. I'd use that more for supplying my own body guards.
Quote from: Khorn on 05-04-2011
Sixth, you should get the cash option to exchange junk for caps. Wasters shouldn't since it makes less sense ICly.
Well, yea. For the noobs however, it'll help their scavenging for empty nuka cola bottles and other crap actually be worth a tiny bit of their time.
Quote from: Khorn on 05-04-2011
As for others, no one but those accepted should have flags, why Exile allows this, I don't know.
Well like I said, we had our flags briefly then had them removed.
Quote from: Tom on 05-04-2011
The reason I took it away, was One, the issue of "Its not ready yet".
You're right it's not ready yet. What damage we can do with it not being ready yet is unknown to me, however.
Quote from: Tom on 05-04-2011
But SK wants ammo to be hard to come by, and wants a system where scavenging is a must. In Stalker you get your shit from traders who buy from outside the zone.
This isn't going to get solved until several ammo glitches are fixed, actually.
Quote from: Tom on 05-04-2011
In Fallout you can buy from traders who either A)Make the shit or buy from other traders, or B) They scavenge for it or pay others to scavenge for it. If you play the FO games Ammo is pretty rare, and you have to conserve the shit.
Ammo is hardly cheap. However, even with the exploitations in the game, it's not like people are running and gunning about constantly.
Quote from: Tom on 05-04-2011
If we gave you T and other access, its like you have infinite ammos and guns and suits out the ass and you get a Stalker economy, If Silver had more admins spawning stashes (IE he gives someone eles other than myself SV) then the economy will work. But trader menu will lead to the "Don't worry I can buy ammo" mentality and no one will try or attempt to conserve there shit.
I never leave my shop. Someone wants ammo, I can't ass-pull it. :P That's already a rule for traders not to ass-pull items. Though I think your idea of economy is a little opposite of what the real-world term is. An economy
relies on spending money. It sounds like you and Exile
don't want people spending any money, or you want the income to rely more on scavenging, and you don't want them wasting ammo because they know they can.
I respectfully disagree with this standpoint. For one, ammo isn't exactly cheap. Certain ammo prices need to be tweaked I think, like shotgun shells need to be raised while others may need to be lowered, but back to my point. Yes, the economy DOES need more scavenging to allow its self to work. If traders however have their flags, this doesn't mean that everyone can get a trader to ass-pull ammo and here's why: Ammunition is still expensive. Wasters only make 5 caps per paycheck, and a box of 9mm from me costs 100 caps! They're not going to be wasting ammo at random, I promise you this. Unless the prices get stupid-low, then this is not going to be a problem even if I have an infinite source of ammo.
Meanwhile, the factions who can afford it, they should NOT be needing to conserve ammo. They make far more money, they are far more organized, and basically the natural cycles of capitalism allows them to purchase more weapons without it unbalancing the game. Make sense?
Hope I can convince you. Really I just want my T-flag back. xD If I fuck up you can always take it away and yell at me.
Quote from: Tom on 05-04-2011
Tiers came into play back after we switched from cakescript to Nexus, when back in Cake, you did start out with all the goodies in the game, the thing was it made little sense for a newbie trader to suddenly know how to aquire SVD's and G36's and Skats, so the Tier system came out.
Ok, I guess this is a good point. Though like Khorn said, the traders who've been trading for a long time like me, like Jakob, like others, should already have access to the better goodies.
Hell I'll even draw the line for myself. Should I, a wasteland arms dealer, have free access to laser weapons? Fuck no! But all ballistics? Hell yea! I've already seen everything go through my shop, including laser weapons, but my specialty are the ballistics most commonly used by everyone else. I just want access to all ballistics, perhaps even including some guns the game hasn't seen yet because no one has scavved it.
However, I don't want to see laser pistols, rifles, gatling lasers, plasma guns, and alien things appearing in my inventory. Give those to the BoS and Enclave suppliers.
Quote from: Tom on 05-04-2011
I think Silver is working on the tier system, but is leaning more on a scavenge heavy economy, but the thing is One admin spawning stashes is shit, cause I am one admin, if he had not gotten rid of 2 SA's like a fucking retard for no reason at all, we could afford to promote one SA to SV so that we would have 2 SV's spawning stashes instead of one.
Well it certainly wasn't for no reason, but
let's not get into that here. :P Last thing we need is us having a civilized conversation then some derp turns it into a shitstorm.
You will be able to spend, you'll just need to find the weapons/ammo/make the ammo/find the suits, instead of having infinite inventories in the trader menu. Sure, you may RP having a limited supply of ammo, but then again, I've heard people on SRP say, "Oh shit dawg im gonna rp not having this kinda ammo, and not having unlimited supplies bro cause im a newbie!" THere where few that did, I can count all of them on one hand (At least all the ones I knew on one hand) I think what I may ask him is. . . Every week or so, caravaners (Me) will drop by each shop and drop a random amount of inventory at each shop, Will it be alot? No, will it work? Maybe. It may be free, it probally won't be though, and all the proceeds of what you buy will go toward stashes being made around the map/events, does this sound like a good idea?
Quote from: Tom on 06-04-2011
You will be able to spend, you'll just need to find the weapons/ammo/make the ammo/find the suits, instead of having infinite inventories in the trader menu. Sure, you may RP having a limited supply of ammo, but then again, I've heard people on SRP say, "Oh shit dawg im gonna rp not having this kinda ammo, and not having unlimited supplies bro cause im a newbie!" THere where few that did, I can count all of them on one hand (At least all the ones I knew on one hand) I think what I may ask him is. . . Every week or so, caravaners (Me) will drop by each shop and drop a random amount of inventory at each shop, Will it be alot? No, will it work? Maybe. It may be free, it probally won't be though, and all the proceeds of what you buy will go toward stashes being made around the map/events, does this sound like a good idea?
Weekly supply dumps, free or not, actually sound like a
really good idea. If they're not free though they ought to be as cheap as possible or traders will make no profit--especially considering that someone decided it was a good idea to nerf the paycheck system in-game. Though I don't think it's a good idea to have it
totally random. The traders know what people are buying. They know what they need more of and what they need less of. I'd like to say open a forum thread for orders on whatever items are wanted, but I have a bad feeling this could get way too complicated.
I don't really like that idea. Nore do I like trader flags idea. The best option currently is the scavenging one, but Exile needs to allow another SV in order for that to work correctly. Since only Supervisors can spawn items, AKA Tom, they only come once or tiwce a day. While good for some, that is a nightmare for others due to different time zones. Not awake when Tom is awake? Poor you.
Quote from: Wolfinton on 06-04-2011
I don't really like that idea. Nore do I like trader flags idea. The best option currently is the scavenging one, but Exile needs to allow another SV in order for that to work correctly. Since only Supervisors can spawn items, AKA Tom, they only come once or tiwce a day. While good for some, that is a nightmare for others due to different time zones. Not awake when Tom is awake? Poor you.
The map constantly get SCRAPED clean by all the players. Unfortunately as of lately all of the old indoor hiding spots are now 'occupied' in one way or another.
Really, I've said many times, we need to get creative with the way items are obtained in the FORP in some cases.
Well, I sugget you brain storm some new ideas.
We got NPCs that drop items at random.
We got scrap piles.
We get some stashes, generally found in 5 minutes.
You can rob people for items.
And what do you mean all the indoor spots are occupied? Only places like that should be main faction bases.
and you can also build a hut if you need one.
Quote from: Khorn on 06-04-2011
We got NPCs that drop items at random.
We got scrap piles.
We get some stashes, generally found in 5 minutes.
Moar NPC drops would be nice--though zombies tend to fuck up the server we've noticed. Not sure if this bug still exists.
Quote from: Khorn on 06-04-2011
You can rob people for items.
Just no. This is the worst possible thing that could happen to our server. Everyone will be focused on killing each other for the best good rather than entertaining RP. We've been afraid of this happening long before traders were even considered.
Quote from: Khorn on 06-04-2011
And what do you mean all the indoor spots are occupied? Only places like that should be main faction bases.
and you can also build a hut if you need one.
Well someone screwed up then. The spawn town for example is occupied by the "Vincetti family" or whatever the hell their name was. I own Kira's Karbines in that old warehouse. Houses scattered in the wastes are also occupied. BoS city. Crazy Pete took over that place in the cliffs with the tiny shanty town. I think the lakeside house is the only spot without someone living there.
I never said anything about killing players for stuff.
Not once. I even wrote a guide up for SRP to help improve banditry sometime ago.
If you think robbing people involves only killing without RP, well then you only met lolbandits.
-Removed unneeded posts. And edited out any talk about abuse.
Keep your arguments out of here.
The thing with robbing people is that they just complain in OOC until someone comes along to rescue them. A robbery that should take 5 minutes takes over an hour because they talk and complain in OOC constantly, desperate for someone to walk along and help them. 3/4 times I have robbed someone this has happened. Lolbanditing is the way forward!
Yea, well here at HGN, if someone starts to whine in OOC about being robbed, they get kicked for metagaming and avoiding RP.
Besides, there is an OOC delay.
The next time you try to rob someone, and they start to go Out of Character on you, report it to an admin.
Quote from: Khorn on 07-04-2011
Yea, well here at HGN, if someone starts to whine in OOC about being robbed, they get kicked for metagaming and avoiding RP.
Besides, there is an OOC delay.
The next time you try to rob someone, and they start to go Out of Character on you, report it to an admin.
Yeah, I try to do that every time I remember. The only problem I have with that is that a person can use that to get out of being robbed. "Oh look, I'm being robbed! Talk in OOC and get kicked, then I wont have to give my shit away!" I tried to rob someone of two artifacts on STRP, they complained about not having the items IC even though he showed them IC, I got Nitro, Nitro tried to settle it, he argued, he got kicked and I lost the artifacts that would have went to Freedoms back pockets.
I believe that we should get back onto the topic of traders now. Right now, the only viable solutions I can see is to either promote some admins to SA, then promote Blake or Paint to SV in order to get more scavenging OR use the trader flags as they are, rather broken(?) OR have no trader flags until they are fixed and made fair.
Quote from: Wolfinton on 07-04-2011
Blake to SV
Was that an attempt to cause a myocardial infarction?
Got another glympse at T-flags today and had it revoked again. :P
However I like and dislike some of the new stuff. Here's what I like;
- Decent selection with things ranging from ammo schematics (which I NEED as an arms dealer), scrap metal, and fire starters.
- Radios are a fun toy because they add a mood to the shop.
- Paper. I need paper. Can't get enough paper. I use this to post notes RATHER THAN using ropetext which fucks up the server. I love it.
- Medical supplies are nice too.
- Backpacks and jackets are a MUST for any trader.
- Kevlar is an interesting addition I haven't gotten to play with yet, but assuming it works like jackets and backpacks do (as in, you only need it in the inventory not equipped) then it'd be a nice addition for arms dealers.
- I don't know what spray cans do, but assuming they let you put your Gmod tag somewhere in the map, I think I'd love to utilize that for making signs or making notices. I could design a 'Kira's Karbines' graphic exclusive for this server, then tag the front of my shop. Keep these.
- GRENADES. We should have more grenades. Frags I couldn't give a shit about, but I want smoke bombs, flash bangs, stun, etc. for get-aways when I'm in the wastes. A trader should not engage in combat unless self defence. Ideally, I'd like to be able to just escape entirely. KEEP GRENADES. :D
Then, what I dislike:
- Prices are wonky as all hell. Kevlar vest is 10,000 caps for what I assume is rubbish bullet protection. It should be 1/20th of that at most. Someone made the wonderful suggestion to base prices for armor at each % that it protects against bullets. I sell for 100 caps per %, but the T-menu should do it by 50 caps, or 75 caps per % of protection.
- Bunch of crap that doesn't do anything. Get rid of all the Stalker ports obviously. I think you already know this.
- Some of the prices, just, no. I'll give more examples. Kevlar was one. Lower that. Please. Scrap metal is another. If you're not going to give us access to buy and sell ammo directly--and you're forcing us to build it ourselves--then please, lower the prices on the scrap metal. I can't even make and sell 9mm for a fair price with scrap at 500 for 5 pieces. As for the schematics, those are all fine. Keep those exactly as they are.
- No access to ammo in T-menu. Now I'm an 'established' trader so this might only apply to my rank and up, but if you'd rather not give us schematics, give us the ammo instead. Personally I think this might be the better option to avoid people buying and selling ammo schematics instead of the actual ammo. Though, if you do give us access to schematics, make it somehow more cost effective for the trader to forge their own ammo rather than buy it direct. This falls back to the prices on scrap metal.
You know exactly why it was pulled off you.
You make it sound like we being assholes.
And if Silver listens to me and Rebel, the flags will work a lot better for traders.
I/other admins need to spawn Scrap metal/ wood scrap entities, then you can pay people to scavenge. Then you can make ammo.
Quote from: Khorn on 09-04-2011
You know exactly why it was pulled off you.
You make it sound like we being assholes.
And if Silver listens to me and Rebel, the flags will work a lot better for traders.
Erm, that isn't my intent. :\ Sorry.
Everyone had it pulled off of them at the same time though. I wasn't the only one.
It's not done, I understand that! You guys are working on it. I understand that too. Now if you
weren't working on it,
then I'd think you guys were assholes. >_> But that obviously isn't the case as evidenced by the updates we've seen.
So far I like what I've seen, too! Take my post as constructive critique, not as blatant complaining.
Quote from: Tom on 09-04-2011
I/other admins need to spawn Scrap metal/ wood scrap entities, then you can pay people to scavenge. Then you can make ammo.
That'd help--though 'paying people to scavenge' is something I already do really. What I don't do is hand them a paycheck and say, "Go hunt down shit." Rather I wait for them to come to me with interesting goods. 95% of the guns I sell are all at one point or another sold to me by other wasters or traders and I've developed a highly lucrative business on that alone. It's ammunition that keeps screwing me up. No one sells ammo unless they don't have the guns for that ammo. Otherwise they keep the ammo. Therefore, ammunition is a difficult commodity to obtain.
The most ammo people ever sell me are either ultra high grade or low grade ammo because either way they either can't use it or don't care about it. I have like twenty-something boxes of 10mm ammo, 13 boxes of 9mm, and like 4 MF and 2 EN cells. I sold
all of my 5.56 and shotgun ammunition! That stuff flies off the shelves and I love it--but I think you understand my point. Either being able to forge our own ammo or buy it from the T-menu will equalize the market a whole lot.
I imagine ammo and arms dealing is going to become a lot more important soon as certain glitches in the game with ammo are fixed. I'll be anticipating the profits. Heheheh. >:3
On a final note, keep up the good work. I'm anxious to see how this turns out.
Remove the Random Item Machine.
Quote from: Ragolution on 10-04-2011
Remove the Random Item Machine.
Dear god, please.
Don't raise the prices on it to deter us. It won't stop us. JUST REMOVE IT.
I agree, remove that it's rather annoying for traders. Or make it only spawn things like consumables or medical supplies.
Quote from: Recreas on 10-04-2011
I agree, remove that it's rather annoying for traders. Or make it only spawn things like consumables or medical supplies.
Traders? Not just traders! It's annoying for everyone! It spits out a ton of useless items as well.
The random machine has nothing to do with traders.
That complaint needs to go straight to Tom or Exile.
Quote from: Khorn on 10-04-2011
The random machine has nothing to do with traders.
That complaint needs to go straight to Tom or Exile.
Fair enough.
Instead of all the traders being by themselves and not knowing other traders (maybe), there should be a Crimson Caravan type thing, where all the traders can go to ICly resupply goods to bring on the road to sell, and to maybe give wastelanders work at the Crimson Caravan type place.
Quote from: FrostyFrosty on 16-04-2011
Instead of all the traders being by themselves and not knowing other traders (maybe), there should be a Crimson Caravan type thing, where all the traders can go to ICly resupply goods to bring on the road to sell, and to maybe give wastelanders work at the Crimson Caravan type place.
We've already got a pretty good idea that's similar-ish to this. No spoilers.
Uhh, who decided that a Combat Shotgun is LESS MONEY than a hunting shotgun? >_> This doesn't seem right.
With all due respect, can we please have the prices fixed, like, immediately? This is all kinds of screwed up. Whoever is in control of what prices get what, please send me a PM or Steam message me so I can tell you what, in my opinion, they should be exactly. More importantly WHY they should be priced in a certain way. For a number of reasons it's a bad idea to just make up prices on the fly.
Without being specific on prices, here are my opinions:
-9mm pistols should be dirt cheap.
-10mm just above dirt cheap.
-Chinese pistols I have no idea what kind of damage they do. If it's less than 10mm but more than 9mm, put it between those two prices. If it's weaker than the 9mm, that's just stupid.
-.44 Caliber, provided it works now, should be cheaper--but mind you the revolver holds six shots compared to a 10mm pistol's 12 shots. Do the math on the damage involved then price the weapon.
-Chinese assault rifle is too expensive, regular assault rifle is too cheap. These should be priced the same for starters. One is accurate, one is powerful. It's a fair trade off.
-Hunting shotgun way too expensive.
-Hunting rifle is also way too expensive. These two should be the same, if not the rifle -slightly- costing more.
-SPAS-12 is priced ok, actually.
-Combat Shotgun is WAY TOO FREAKIN' CHEAP.
-Armor is also poorly priced in my opinion. Too high for trench coats, too low for business suit.
-Wooden planks... ok, I don't even know what good these are.
I'm sure I told you about the prices and who set them.
Also, I'm sure that they won't change. So, either be happy with the set prices, or don't use the menu.
Also, your post is quite rude. Your basically telling us that you know what things should be set at.
So tone it down.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 23-04-2011
Uhh, who the HELL decided that a Combat Shotgun is LESS MONEY than a hunting shotgun? >_>
Can we please have the prices fixed, like, immediately? This is all kinds of screwed up. Whoever is in control of what prices get what, please send me a PM or Steam message me so I can tell you what, in my opinion, they should be exactly. More importantly WHY they should be priced in a certain way. For a number of reasons it's a bad idea to just make up prices on the fly.
Without being specific on prices, here are my opinions:
-9mm pistols should be dirt cheap.
-10mm just above dirt cheap.
-Chinese pistols I have no idea what kind of damage they do. If it's less than 10mm but more than 9mm, put it between those two prices. If it's weaker than the 9mm, that's just stupid.
-.44 Caliber, provided it works now, should be cheaper--but mind you the revolver holds six shots compared to a 10mm pistol's 12 shots. Do the math on the damage involved then price the weapon.
-Chinese assault rifle is too expensive, regular assault rifle is too cheap. These should be priced the same for starters. One is accurate, one is powerful. It's a fair trade off.
-Hunting shotgun way too expensive.
-Hunting rifle is also way too expensive. These two should be the same, if not the rifle -slightly- costing more.
-SPAS-12 is priced ok, actually.
-Combat Shotgun is WAY TOO FREAKIN' CHEAP.
-Armor is also poorly priced in my opinion. Too high for trench coats, too low for business suit.
-Wooden planks... ok, I don't even know what good these are.
The market isn't always in yours or anyone else's favor. You, of all people, should know that.
I agree with the first two
A box of 10mm is worth more than a 9mm pistol.
Do something about it.
I would, but I can't. Unless Exiled added a command to let us edit prices, it won't change.
He is the one in control of it.
Quote from: Khorn on 24-04-2011
Unless Exiled added a command to let us edit prices, it won't change.
It would take many weeks to code this kind of system.
Yes, and that is why it all is up to him. And last I checked, he seems rather fine with it.
Quote from: Khorn on 23-04-2011
Also, your post is quite rude. Your basically telling us that you know what things should be set at.
So tone it down.
I'm just going to change the first line then and change it to something else. Otherwise this is constructive critique and I'm not changing the rest of the post.
With all due respect, and don't take this the wrong way because I don't hate you/think you're an idiot/asshole/jerk/etc.; you need to stop taking offense to my posts. They're not meant to be offensive. It's constructive criticism. Isn't that what this thread is for? I'm trying to avoid coming in here and being like, "YOU FUCKED UP EVERYTHING YOU SUCK NOW FIX IT SO IT'S EXACTLY LIKE THIS" because that would be stupid and I'd be a douchebag for doing it. The objective of constructive critique is to explain what, ideally, I'd like to see done. It's up to the person doing the work whether or not he decides, "Hey, I kind of like that idea," or alternatively, "No, I had something else planned." Even in an earlier post where I first
complimented the good work,
then gave my opinions on what should be changed, you still said I was being an asshole for it. If I didn't give a shit about the community, or if I was being selfish, I'd shut up about the prices because frankly some of them make the game
really unfair, but
in my favor as a trader.
Really, you're going to have to explain how in specific I'm being an asshole. If you guys don't want suggestions and complaints, delete this thread.
Quote from: Khorn on 24-04-2011
Yes, and that is why it all is up to him. And last I checked, he seems rather fine with it.
I'll try and convince him otherwise then, because I have real reasons for the prices I've chosen for the items I sell. If those prices change because of T-flags that's fine. I can adapt. However, some of them are just so strange they
have to be a mistake from my perspective. Pistols and shotguns seem to suffer worst from this.
I'm going to make the shortest retort with the best argument:
If the prices are "too high" you can assume whoever did the prices (Silver) wants to see a lot less of them.
Quote from: Ragolution on 24-04-2011
I'm going to make the shortest retort with the best argument:
If the prices are "too high" you can assume whoever did the prices (Silver) wants to see a lot less of them.
Then why is alien tech cheap? Yea, I don't think so. Sorry Rag. :P Though obviously I know better than to
sell alien shit.
And like I said, pistols are incredibly expensive for mere pistols. Noobs are the only ones who buy 9mm for example, and noobs can't even afford it.
Thing is, 'noobs' shouldn't be able to afford guns right after joining. We want people to attempt to stick around longer to get more money. If every new player could afford the majority of items, it would turn into what happened to SRP once before, where everyone is decked out in Skats and G36s.
And again, prices aren't my problem. As there is nothing I can do about it, except complain to Silver.
Quote from: Khorn on 24-04-2011
Thing is, 'noobs' shouldn't be able to afford guns right after joining. We want people to attempt to stick around longer to get more money.
My concern is more for the players who get killed five minutes in then ragequit and never come back because they can't buy another 9mm pistol. Hell,
I nearly quit on day one because I was killed and lost my gear. Only reason I didn't is I found a new pistol by pure chance. No ammo, but still a pistol.
Quote from: Khorn on 24-04-2011
If every new player could afford the majority of items, it would turn into what happened to SRP once before, where everyone is decked out in Skats and G36s.
Well, yea. The other weapons, that's another story. But like I said, when the
worst shotgun is the most expensive and the
best shotgun is the least expensive, it's obvious someone made a mistake just for an example. Either way I've consulted Silver/Exile on the prices. We'll see if he likes what I have to say or not.
Actually, if you think about it Spades, the Combat Shotguns price is actually rather fair. Its accuracy compared to the other shotguns is horrendous, and the fact that all it has going for it is speed means that it has a rather fair price. The hunting shotgun, I believe, is one of the more accurate shotguns while the SPAS-12 is the most damaging, I believe.
Quote from: Wolfinton on 25-04-2011
Actually, if you think about it Spades, the Combat Shotguns price is actually rather fair. Its accuracy compared to the other shotguns is horrendous, and the fact that all it has going for it is speed means that it has a rather fair price. The hunting shotgun, I believe, is one of the more accurate shotguns while the SPAS-12 is the most damaging, I believe.
Really now? Well, accuracy is sort of pointless for a shotgun. I mean, it's a shotgun. However if you mean the Hunting shotgun has the worst spread of fire compared to the hunting shotgun, that would make sense to the price (though next I'll be complaining that the damage is stupid, lol).
Combat Shotguns are good for up close and personal, fast paced combat. That's why I used to generally carry one.
Hunting Shotguns are better for medium range fighting, I would guess.
SPAS-12s would be for the up close and personal, first to shoot dies combat.
Quote from: Wolfinton on 25-04-2011
Combat Shotguns are good for up close and personal, fast paced combat. That's why I used to generally carry one.
Hunting Shotguns are better for medium range fighting, I would guess.
SPAS-12s would be for the up close and personal, first to shoot dies combat.
I'll have to check out the weapon spread vs damage of the hunting shotgun. I still think its current price is too expensive, but it's got more reason behind it than I expected. Meanwhile the combat shotgun, I might feel less bad about selling them cheaper.
I don't like the cap because it contradicts the rank system just saying, if someone has a high enough rank, they'd have armor and weapons. Just sayin'.
I probably won't allow people to get other Professions anymore anyways.
My complaint is that, traders should not have more then 1-2k. Buy items, scatter them around. It's fun for players and it makes scavengers a good business. Take the challenge traders! This is especially important for when we get on RP_Salvation and there are good hiding spots.