Regarding shooting to miss

[Khorn]

Yea, removing the looting system would help, but then it be less stalker like since when you kill someone you get something so you can continue surviving.

[Paintcheck]

Seems that everyone is in agreement that removing looting would solve this problem.

The one bad thing about that is new players will then need to somehow make money to buy gear instead of being able to scavange guns after firefights. I think if everyone got paychecks that would solve that problem, make being a new player easier and would make STK not suck.

[Paintcheck]

Now how do we reward the killer if the guns dont drop.
Perhaps dropping other items that the player has?

Why do we NEED to reward killers at all? This is an RP server.

I would suggest dropping rubles, like 50-100 depending on flag (or gear if that's possible). So like killing an Exoskeleton would give you 500 rubles, killing some random loner is worth like 10 rubles. The reward for a kill should be very low, there's no reason to encourage killing people other than the IC advantage the NLR provides.

Sorry for the double post, am in economics class right now and didn't realize I had this topic open in 2 windows.

[Steel]

Thats a superb idea about dropping rubles paint.
I completely support that one, the server will have more action without the fear of loosing an item you've tried to gain for several months.
But with that there could be abuse...

[Bielecki]

I think if everyone got paychecks that would solve that problem,

Before someone comments

"LoL stalkers dun get paycheks, is some1 righting them paycheks? LoL"

Think of the paychecks as a non-IC or RP thing.

Its a good idea Paint.

[Paintcheck]

I also think stifling the economy to get the STALKER feel is a stupid idea. THe server was actually quite fun during the days of the Flash glitching because new players got money quickly and old players could finally afford to buy things like Exos. Instead of artificially holding the economy back, make money plentiful again and have a tier of items that had to be applied for. That way everyone could get up to like the STALKER suit-An94 level (which in the STALKER games was about where most STALKERS were) and then the ones that truly had a good IC reason to have a SEVA or a G36 or an Exo would apply for it (and the application would be harder than just "Can you pay for it and will you not abuse it?") and everyone would be happier.

But that is a different topic than STM.

[Khorn]

Great job paint, you took my idea about money dropping... :P

Oh well, if you think they same then it might actually be implemented.

[Supercool]

Why do we NEED to reward killers at all? This is an RP server.

Well killers should be RPing as well, and without a looting system people lose their fear of everything. Anomalies are no longer dangerous, and why should someone do anything but run away from a robber since they loose nothing from it? Looting is a requirement or people simply do not fear for their life. Yes, its a roleplay server so they should do it anyways, but in the large majority of cases you cannot trust the player base to do the right thing and roleplay with that fear if they do not actually feel it.

[Zombiedance]

Im sorry but one time i had a camp with a bunch of stalkers and then a small group of bandits came and in real life (or what this is based off S.T.A.L.K.E.R.) Would you purposely shoot at there feet! Or in STALKER would you purposely MISS!!!!

[Bielecki]

STM should be used in equal fights, when both sides have a good chance to win. Then It gets changed after a while to STK.

In ambushes, It should always be STRP or STK. Its unfair for the ambushers to miss even though they have caught them off guard.

Basically, when the other team has a chance to get the upper hand just becasue the opposing team isn't allowed to shoot them, STM should never be used.

Example:
A Sniper has ambushed a gang of Mercs. The Mercs want to get to cover. So if STM is used the Mercs get a free pass.

[Paintcheck]

Why do we NEED to reward killers at all? This is an RP server.

Well killers should be RPing as well, and without a looting system people lose their fear of everything. Anomalies are no longer dangerous, and why should someone do anything but run away from a robber since they loose nothing from it? Looting is a requirement or people simply do not fear for their life. Yes, its a roleplay server so they should do it anyways, but in the large majority of cases you cannot trust the player base to do the right thing and roleplay with that fear if they do not actually feel it.

True but the current engagement system is absolute shit as it is. Would it be possible to code it so if you're killed by a bullet you don't drop anything but if you're killed by an anomoly you drop what you're carrying?

[Yorty]

STM should be used in equal fights, when both sides have a good chance to win. Then It gets changed after a while to STK.

In ambushes, It should always be STRP or STK. Its unfair for the ambushers to miss even though they have caught them off guard.

Basically, when the other team has a chance to get the upper hand just becasue the opposing team isn't allowed to shoot them, STM should never be used.

Example:
A Sniper has ambushed a gang of Mercs. The Mercs want to get to cover. So if STM is used the Mercs get a free pass.

Oh wow, thats great. I've looked thru this thread, and I have some thoughts. Paintcheck is pretty spot on, with the dropping of rubles and changing the whole economy. Obviously, its should be discussed in detail.
Regarding ST*ing, Bielecki has it. 

[Paintcheck]

The dropping money thing was posted by Khorn first. He's getting mad at me for "stealing his idea" so I figured I'd set that straight. lol

[Yorty]

Oh. Still, it Aint bad. But there should still be chance to lose your gun at least.

[Khorn]

Hey I wasn't getting mad. Just seems everyone completely ignored what I said.
I don't care who gets credit, but I still think that would be best to replace looting.

[Rebel6609]

In truth, I think that equipment should lost on death, along with money, and STRP should be implemented.
But, like we have now with the armor being a 1/50 chance of drop, why not just do the same with equipment? Like make it 10/40 chance of dropping your weapons? Because i know on stalker i usually got ALL my shit from things. Infact, thats how most people in the server get their gear. Killing or looting. The only other way is someone giving you a gun, or a trader or barkeep making a mission. But everyone knows that traders Never to rarely give missions, and they usually end up in flame wars when multiple people go for the same thing. You can also make it so that when you die, you actually drop nothing. So its a 30 and 70. 70 being the the drop.

And for the STRP, Its pretty much how it should go. Because we all know that STM fights usually end badly and go into STK. Reason being is someone accidently hits another person, that person fires back and someone dies, resulting in a all out STK. Which STRP, its kinda fairer. Ofcourse when you get close up you should /me something. And with his new accuracy thing i was hearing about it should make STRP better with less hits. Because 2 stalkers getting away from a fully trained military squad is rather pathetic. And when you have an even...lets say 4 on 4 fight whats there to complain about?

My Answer, Make it Shoot To RP and Try to implement a "Drop Chance" System.

[Paintcheck]

The problem with "Dropping Everything" is this: If a player spends every ruble they have on a brand new SVD, has no money or guns left, and then gets DM'd by someone solely for their gun (since that player knows that the gun will drop) SVD guy is out of money, out of a gun he worked probably weeks to get the money for, and without any means of getting it back since he's moneyless and can't afford a new gun. People posting with their characters who have been around forever are all like "Yeah sure, drop everything on death, I got 20k rubles so I can just buy a new LR/AK/Groza or whatever, no big deal" but new players DON'T have that luxury. Hell I've been around forever and I have exactly 2.7k on my Merc. That's it. I have 1500 on my Freedomer. So if I lost my gun on either of those I'd be fucked.

[Rebel6609]

Well then heres my suggestion. If the person is RDM'd then thats grounds for getting your gun back, but if that person is so paranoid and has no money left for anything else they should:
A) Pull back from the fight

B) Stay with a group
or
C) Pray that the chance system is in there favor.

Because it is inevitable that you are going to lose something. Its a way of life. Not to mention its a game too, so its always possible to get back on your feet. And if your that butt hurt about not having a weapon then remember. Its not a Killing RP. It IS possible to have fun without a gun. A gun is just a luxury most people cry about.

[Paintcheck]

Well Rebel most people enjoy not being absolutely helpless. To say 'Gun doesn't make RP" is all well and good but lots of players feel quite the contrary and there isn't an easy way back from having no money since the whole reason this argument started is because people don't want to be STK'd and lose weeks worth of gun and have to spend more time getting it back.

Saying "It's not a problem for me so therefore it isn't a problem for anyone else" isn't a valid solution.

[Assassinator]

Don't buy a ship you can't afford to lose - EVE  You start cheap and make sure you have a supply of money to buy at least a moderate weapon incase you lose your big daddy, or even better a second weapon in the bank. Finance 101.

Although to talk on something that involves the  main subject. I have no idea how STM is ever alive or exists or came to be, because of the fact that is has no conclusion and does not function. In a competition where there are people firing at each other you are bound to get hit. I also think people are getting confused with the meaning STRP. There are no /me's in STRP. The goal of it is to have a realistic fire fight, using cover, firing a burst, and plopping down. It's what STK should be. In the end there is only one way to fight, STRP.

[Rebel6609]

Saying "It's not a problem for me so therefore it isn't a problem for anyone else" isn't a valid solution.

Never said it wasn't a problem for me. But exactly what assy said. Don't buy a weapon you can't afford to lose. And if you that stupid to spend all your money, and then lose it.. Well then that fucking sucks. You can't go off making a big thing about your mistake. Unless you have a sure and steady income and way to get something back then don't buy a weapon. And if you do then let that be a lesson to you. And for faction players, your faction leader should have their members armed with atleast SOME form of gun, so go ask them for equipment.

[Paintcheck]

Unless you have a sure and steady income and way to get something back then don't buy a weapon.

And how do you create a steady income without a weapon?

[Rebel6609]

Buy a cheaper gun. Common sense. Instead of a 20k VSS or some shit, buy a 2-4 k AK along with ammo. And slowly work your way up to where you can constantly make money.

[Paintcheck]

You're still not answering the original problem: When you are new to the server you cannot afford a weapon (guess a makarov but...). So you're stuck at that point.

[Rebel6609]

Your not Necessarily "stuck". You can join raids or be a lolmerc or a lolbandit. As much as people hate those, thats a pretty good way to make money when you start. Do missions for traders and factions too. I mean if you have a gun, and you do a small job for lets say freedom, then that'll earn you some cash. And do another, and you end up with like 2k. Enough to buy a better pistol or mp5. Then continue on.

This shit takes time to do and you have to be patient. Not come in and want the best of weapons. And same goes with some of the more senior members. They can't seem to live without the best of equipment, Not pointing the finger or anything...And you know who you are. If you don't want to take that time and wait and earn shit the hard way then i guess this ain't for you. You can't give everyone what they want.