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Duty and military should not be allies.

Bob dole. The master sargeant should not be chilling with them, Neither should any other soldier.

Duty is out to protect STALKERs.
Military is out to kill them
Duty is mainly ex-military.
Military does not <3 DUTY. Something needs to change. Debate it and vote.

Enemies ofc, Duty are a bunch of Experienced Stalkers, Sometimes protecting other Stalkers.

Military are Legal in the Zone, They hunt down Stalkers (Like Duty), that are illegal in the Zone

How they are allies in SRP sickens me, They should be enemies, not allies. Their even enemies in the Stalker series...

I will do everything in my power to end this Ally, if it ever happens again, I will make sure every fucking faction (Stalkers, Freedom, Mercs, and Bandit) teams up and makes sure that ally NEVER happens, that's how much it sickens me...

Both the choices are on extreme ends of their respective sides. Should Duty be allowing Military to walk all through their sector, and into their base? No. Should Duty actively be trying to destroy every Military soldier in the Zone? No. It's supposed to be more of a "You don't intrude on our territory and bug us, and we'll do the same for you" type relationship. Sure, there'll be exceptions where Military are allowed into the Duty base, and vice-versa, but said exceptions shouldn't occur on a daily basis like they do now.

TL;DR - They should be what the Relations page says they are, neutral. They act too much like allies right now.

In addition...

Quote from: Pawx on 16-11-2010
Enemies ofc, Duty are a bunch of Experienced Stalkers, Sometimes protecting other Stalkers.

Military are Legal in the Zone, They hunt down Stalkers (Like Duty), that are illegal in the Zone

How they are allies in SRP sickens me, They should be enemies, not allies. Their even enemies in the Stalker series...

Explain why, in the games, there's rumors of Spetsnaz conversing with Stalkers dressed in black uniforms.  They're not quite enemies, but they're not quite allies either. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. Duty pays the Military for equipment, Duty leaves Military alone, Military gets the money and can occasionally send troops into Duty territory.

In Clear Sky they're neutral as well, I think. Not sure. I actually completely agree with Stealth. It shouldn't be one extreme or the other. That's like lobbing all human emotion into either "love" or "hate". They shouldn't be buttbuddies, but that doesn't mean they have to be at each other's throats.

Quote from: SimplyStealth on 16-11-2010
Explain why, in the games, there's rumors of Spetsnaz conversing with Stalkers dressed in black uniforms. 

Duty wears red suits, not Black..

Nowhere in the Stalker series did I see Military and Duty together, hugging each and everyone one of them. The Military may be corrupt, but there not that fucking corrupt to 'Ally' with Duty...

Quote from: SimplyStealth on 16-11-2010
Both the choices are on extreme ends of their respective sides. Should Duty be allowing Military to walk all through their sector, and into their base? No. Should Duty actively be trying to destroy every Military soldier in the Zone? No. It's supposed to be more of a "You don't intrude on our territory and bug us, and we'll do the same for you" type relationship. Sure, there'll be exceptions where Military are allowed into the Duty base, and vice-versa, but said exceptions shouldn't occur on a daily basis like they do now.

TL;DR - They should be what the Relations page says they are, neutral. They act too much like allies right now.

+support

Vote for what ever you chose. Other if u commented

Quote from: Pawx on 16-11-2010

Quote from: SimplyStealth on 16-11-2010
Explain why, in the games, there's rumors of Spetsnaz conversing with Stalkers dressed in black uniforms. 

Duty wears red suits, not Black..

Nowhere in the Stalker series did I see Military and Duty together, hugging each and everyone one of them. The Military may be corrupt, but there not that fucking corrupt to 'Ally' with Duty...

Incorrect. Duty wears black uniforms with a red trim. Now, I realize my example is nowhere present in the games, I admit this. But the rumor exsists in the games, and explain how Duty would otherwise gain access to high-grade weaponry like the Vintorez, or the VAL, or their abundance of Abakans (Which the maker REFUSES to be sold to anyone except Russian/Ukrainian Special Forces), and their SKATs. Furthermore, according to the games, they are not ALLIED, they are NEUTRAL. There is a difference.

Quote"At some point between the events of Clear Sky and Shadow of Chernobyl, however, the Military establishes a power-base in Agroprom, taking it from the Loners and Duty."

Quote"as well as many of its subsequent members, were originally Ukrainian Military troops and Special Forces units sent into the Zone and left to die there after being nearly killed by the Zone's mutants and anomalies. "

Quote"The clan avoided contact with the military for obvious reasons. However, it should be noted that there were reports of stalkers dressed in black suits dealing with Ukrainian Spetsnaz troops.

Even if they where neutral. They will not be seen with them. Being seen with the military would change their impact on STALKERs. Stalkers would think they work with the military and give them the big middle finger.

That doesn't mean they won't set up hidden meetings to quickly work out supply deals and payments. A quick in & out, what're the odds of some Stalker wandering into the irradiated hell-hole of a building they're in for the five minutes the groups are together? Slim to none. And who would believe him if he did? Duty has a largely untarnished reputation, it would take some very solid proof to change the entire Stalker population's mind about them.

Quote from: SimplyStealth on 16-11-2010
That doesn't mean they won't set up hidden meetings to quickly work out supply deals and payments. A quick in & out, what're the odds of some Stalker wandering into the irradiated hell-hole of a building they're in for the five minutes the groups are together? Slim to none. And who would believe him if he did? Duty has a largely untarnished reputation, it would take some very solid proof to change the entire Stalker population's mind about them.

Yes I understand... But I mean.. Bob dole for example constantly visit's you while off duty and just patrols arouund the base. Another would be allowing military to slaughter stalkers in your own damn sector.

I MEAN! Fucking stalkers hate military. If they see military casualy strolling trough duty base they wouldn't be happy. They'd probably think of duty differently.

I remember seeing military mercs in duty arena in SoC but I think the only times the military actually comes to duty base is to watch the arena and to arrange weapons and arnamants deals.

Quote from: meetdadoom on 16-11-2010
I remember seeing military mercs in duty arena in SoC but I think the only times the military actually comes to duty base is to watch the arena and to arrange weapons and arnamants deals.

That was a Spetsnaz Operator and an OMON Soldier, they fought in the arena for a reason never defined, and were killed by the Marked One in their fight against him.

I say a more of a neutral hatred towards each other.

Duty<Neutral Hate>Military
Duty<Hate>Freedom
Duty<Neutral>Stalker
Duty<Despise>Mercs

Military<Hate>All but Mercs and Duty
Military<Tolerate>Mercs
Military<Neutral Hate>Duty

Actually in SoC and CS the relations between Duty and Military are neutral.

Quote from: Jake on 16-11-2010
Actually in SoC and CS the relations between Duty and Military are neutral.

Yea. But they don't go out together and drink tea.

I guess they should be enemies. It'd balance thing so Duty won't fight only with Freedom, and Freedom won't have to fight against two allied factions.

Alright , for all your ignorant bastards out there let me clear some things up.

Freedom only attacks Duty lately that I'm being annoyed and doesn't even interract with Military as far as I know.
I don't invite them over, but when you see guys armed to the tooth with SKATs, SVDs, VSSs, Grozas and they highly outnumber your own guys, what would you do?

I didn't get any money/weapons/armor or anything from Commisar, so Duty has been working it's ass off hence I became lead.

We never venture into their territory.
We are neutral and stalkers in the games say how they saw the lot interract with each other.

Not hostiles,but neutral..When military or DUTY really but really needs help so they can call military.and supplies from military.

Quote from: knife_cz on 17-11-2010
needs help so they can call military.and supplies from military.

no

Quote from: Dug on 17-11-2010

Freedom only attacks Duty lately that I'm being annoyed and doesn't even interract with Military as far as I know.

Cause we are supposed t interact with you guys mainly. Not to mention military is afraid of loosing gear.

Quote from: Dug on 17-11-2010

I  don't invite them over.

We never venture into their territory.

But some DO invite themselves and DO cause trouble in duty base. And as far as I know duty never ventures into Military country which is a plus, but military seems to do this when you and Doom are not on.

So basically, I don't mind them selling you SOME shit and going to arena events on the side. I'm just happy Freedom hasn't became the new "Mono" of redemption, I remeber back when I first started playing Military, Duty, and Freedom, along with a few dozen stalkers and mercs, would have a "POWERZZ OF TEH ZONE UNITE!" moment and attack Monolith all at once. which often times made me lawl though the RP never made sense

The unite thing was long time ago and I haven't really seen it for a long time. Also, Monolith is gone now.
All fights Freedom versus Duty were gear return so far and I don't see what's the problem then with fighting Military from time to time.

The problem with that is you never, and should never see military aiding duty. Duty is supposed to be made up of deserters and experienced stalkers. Everything military should hate. I personally have seen a whole thing of 9 soldiers walking through duty base. I've seen some 4 soldiers in duty base. This should not be. Sure, you can sometimes set up meetings but be less noticeable. Bring some stalker suit or something. Honestly, whens the last time you or anyone else saw military and duty together in the game? Never. Only in the arena and that was spetsnaz. 

In my opinion, Duty and Military should remain on a "Stay out of my way, I stay out of your way were cool." relationship. Not hanging out in each others bases or helping with patrols or some shit.

Duty and Military in the BOOKS, most likely canon, were NEUTRAL.
CBA to find Dark Angel's post with the quotation though.

Quote from: Rebel6609Only in the arena and that was spetsnaz.

It was GRU or something like that, OMON...

Regardless, They shouldn't be seen with each other much. Or even be with each other that much to begin with.

In my opinion, Duty and Military should be neutral to each other. Well, sure it's nice to have the Military come help you, if you find yourself overhelmed by the enemy. But they don't do so in the games. In the games, they stay out of each other's way, avoiding each other actually. The most wierd/fucked up thing about this Duty/Military arrangement, is that, whenever the Military decides to hang around the Duty base, normal Stalker's suddenly ain't afraid of the them. I have even seen Stalker's walk up to the Military and talk to them! If I were a Stalker, I would avoid the Military at all times, even if they're in the Duty base. The Military have even tried to kill Stalker's in the Duty base, because they "insulted" them.

Seriously, this needs to stop. The Military shouldn't come to the Duty base and vice versa.

Fuck are they making up another stupid "We're allies so we can buttfuck Freedom together" pact? That shit was gay the first time it happened like 7 months ago.

They should be neutral, bordering on hostile since Duty is made up of either military deserters/survivors stranded in the Zone from previous military expeditions or STALKERs, neither of which the military should be taking all too kindly too. I am tired of seeing these factions behave as if they are butt buddies and sharing bases and actively helping each other accomplish goals. That is not how it works. Neutral does not mean "best friend" it means "We won't shoot you on sight." Stop acting like you are long lost brothers.

And no neutral does not mean "If we need help bad enough military will rescue us." Neutral means "We have NOTHING to do with each other ever." If I see combined Military/Duty operations against anyone I will ban every single member of both those factions online.

We haven't even helped each other at all nor agreed upon anything similiar, I don't even know where that is coming from.
This discussion began how they enter our base and evolved into crap that isn't happening, at least not when I'm around.

Quote from: Dug on 17-11-2010
We haven't even helped each other at all nor agreed upon anything similiar, I don't even know where that is coming from.
This discussion began how they enter our base and evolved into crap that isn't happening, at least not when I'm around.

What Dug said. Last time I was ever in Duty country on a military character was official business with Doom, or there for the Arena. Shit is obviously happening when there's no leaders to regulate it. So, instead of pulling shit like this why don't you actually take names, and report them to Dug/Doom/Headcrabs/Alex/or me. These threads serve no purpose but to allow people to start shit and flame up the place.

And on my vote, it's neutral. Military attends the Arena, just because you saw ONE fight featuring military as a game mechanic does not mean it doesn't happen more then that one time. Rumors: Spetz have been seen speaking with people wearing suits that resemble the Duty colors and uniform. Another rumor: When Duty abandoned that military base for their current one in ShoC, they left a bunch of documents there for the military that moved in to occupy it to find. This obviously shows the two factions will help each other under CERTAIN situations. I don't mean for us to start going to the bar together and have vodka, but some of you need to calm the fuck down instead of screaming how the factions should be murdering each other.

DUTY: Who ya gonna call. MILITARY!
*military shows up with tons of soldiers and helicopters, decimating any opposing forces*
DUTY: <3
Military: <3

No. Just NO. They should be enemies I mean really.

Quote from: Steven :D on 17-11-2010
DUTY: Who ya gonna call. MILITARY!
*military shows up with tons of soldiers and helicopters, decimating any opposing forces*
DUTY: <3
Military: <3

No. Just NO. They should be enemies I mean really.

It HAPPENED before, it was non-sense.
The thing you are all screaming about Duty vs. Military is that you DON'T see fights (there are) Freedom vs. Duty.