I'd like to discuss the question of whether or not an opinion counts as an opinion if you're afraid of sticking to it anywhere else but on the internet, and the effects of social masks in politics.
For example, lets take one of the most sensative debates still going on to this day, whether to legalise drawed, animated or otherwise fictional child porn.
I would dare to say most, if not all human beings hide behind a social mask when, say talking to a stranger, or a news paper.
The internet has had huge effects on politics since it allowed people to state their opinions and enter debates with complete anonymity, and I would even go as far as to say the internet is where your "true" self reveals itself.
Thoughts?
PS: Before anyone asks of my opinion regarding fictional child porn, YES, I do support it because it gives the people who prefers that kind of stuff a legal alternative where no children are harmed compared to "the real deal" where real children are abused, harmed and often scarred for life.
One must also take into the effects that these people didn't choose what they are sexually attracted to, in a way how handicapped people didn't choose to be born that way.
For all we know, they could hate and despise themselvse because of it.
If you feel like debating or otherwise discussing that subject, make a new thread, SF, PM or otherwise contact me, but not in this thread, and I also kindly ask all moderators to act upon that request.
Loli is legal :V
I agree that people do reveal their true selves, which can either be marvelous or terrifying. There are loads of maniacs out there.
Quote from: eroticduck on 08-08-2011
I agree that people do reveal their true selves, which can either be marvelous or terrifying. There are loads of maniacs out there.
WTF, weren't you banned ?
Edit: And yes, I do sometime's enjoy Lolicons, but only with cat girls :V
Quote from: Bl★ck Star on 08-08-2011
Quote from: eroticduck on 08-08-2011
I agree that people do reveal their true selves, which can either be marvelous or terrifying. There are loads of maniacs out there.
WTF, weren't you banned ?
For a month or so, yeah.
I dont see why people make a big deal of Loli/Shota, It's just a fucking drawning/animation. I enjoy loli alot (Got loads of them in my PC lol and just look at my fucking avatar), but i am not a pedophile. I dont go out on the streets hunting children..that's dumb, same thing with incest (about incest i am talking about the society view of it not my personal view,if two brothers or brother and sister or w/e love each other, i dont see why they should ignore that because the society (more the CATHOLIC church) says its bad), In anime its "wincest", in real life, not so cool.
Quote from: Chrono on 08-08-2011
I dont see why people make a big deal of Loli/Shota, It's just a fucking drawning/animation. I enjoy loli alot (Got loads of them in my PC lol and just look at my fucking avatar), but i am not a pedophile. I dont go out on the streets hunting children..that's dumb, same thing with incest (about incest i am talking about the society view of it not my personal view,if two brothers or brother and sister or w/e love each other, i dont see why they should ignore that because the society (more the CATHOLIC church) says its bad), In anime its "wincest", in real life, not so cool.
Same Opinion.
Also: Boku no Pico, got it on my pc :V
was reading some traps today...:3
Quote from: Chrono on 08-08-2011
was reading some traps today...:3
Reading ? what.
Doujinshis man...
I like how quickly this turned from serious debates to "What kind of porn do you keep on your computer?"
I think that anonymity on the internet should stay. People can have skewed beliefs or views of someone just because they like a certain thing, like you said, especially in politics. Just because someone, for example, plays a video game (not the most serious situation, but I think you get my point) that features violence and guns (Cawwadoody) doesn't mean that person is a warmongering cold-blooded killer. Again, there could be better instances I could have provided (yeah, porn whatever) but it's really the same for every situation. Guilty pleasures do not equal bad people.
As for the opinion debate? You can't change people. They will always act differently in front of their peers, unless they are truly brave/confident people.
Loli is illegal in some countries, including the uk now. For "moral" reasons, it's not okay to look at naked young children in sex scenes. Or at least, that's what loli is depicted as. Which i suppose is the right motive, but at the same time, it's a drawing so no one should give a shit. Someone drew it thus it should be counted as art and not of what it's dipicting.
As with anonymity. Yes it's very important. But sadly the government, isps and greedy corporations are trying to make the internet not such a free and anon place to be. Facebook is a huge tool to giving you an identity and it wont be long before websites, government sites and applications like steam give you only one option. That is, logging in\attaching a facebook account. It's only a matter of time and the more it's endorsed the worse it will get.
Stage one on steam was when they "tied" your game names to your steam friends name so you could no longer have a custom name ingame. Which was so dumb.
Stage two is implementing facebook into steam, which clearly shows it's domination.
and finally stage 3 is and will come, when you only have the option to create and tie an account to a network like facebook on a internet scale. Alot of services and websites already give you the option to login through facebook and it will become mandatory in the end. Then you can kiss goodbye to your transparency on the internet.
As for incest, I agree with Chrono.
Now, I do have siblings myself and I admit I have a hard time understanding how you could gain such feelings for your siblings, but if it makes the two involved happy, then I dont see why anyone else should interfere at all. It should be their descision and theirs only.
And as for lolita, its illegal where I live too, and is punishable with prison.
And although its very rare for them to arrest someone since they have a hard time finding a line between whats pornography and what is art, it still happens from time to time.
It's turning into a witch hunt, people need to understand that the world isn't black and white, and that people can't be divided into one evil and one good group.
And finally regarding increased surveillence, they can keep making rules and laws as much as they want, they are still way too far behind in evolution to be able to enforce them.
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.
The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.
Quote from: Kassendraw on 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.
The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.
Epic bitch.
Quote from: Kassendraw on 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.
The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.
I acctualy think it's kinda good that 9 year old's know what real sex is, to me it's just stupid if it still would be like years ago people thinking you get pregnant by kissing.
Quote from: Kassendraw on 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.
The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.
That is certainly a possible way people could react (and probably would), but most likely they would be a minority, and if we take out the ethical part and weight the consequences and advantages, i'd say the advantages come out on top by far, especially if you consider the amount of unnecessary trials and court cases it would remove in some of the more extreme countries, my own being a perfect example.
As an example, we had a case where a manga and doujin (googe it) collector was jailed for two years for keeping 51 pictures of nude drawn children on his computer (out of approx a million pictures and series he kept on his computer.)
Why they decided to drag him to the court is a mystery, I dont know about you, but atleast I think that if he truly was a child molester, wouldn't he have a bit more then 51 pictures?
I can add that the 51 pictures of the underaged were also part of a collection of other nude, appearently grown up characters of approx 50 000 pictures.
I also would like to know how they reason when they decide the age of the character, because if I made a character look like a child, but is infact a 50 000 year old god, there wouldn't be any problem, right?
Sadly, most of it is all in swedish so I cant post any links since you wouldn't understand a word anyway.
But if we discuss the ethical part, and why it would be unethical to look at a drawn fictional nude child, and why even go as far as to jail people for it, who are they protecting? (Or rather, what harm did said peson cause)
Are they trying to protect a non existant character from sexual "abuse" that never happend?
Just doesn't make sense to me.
When I first clicked on this thread I thought it might contain a good debate about privacy on the internet. Instead it's about child porn and why it should be legalized. The amount of effort the posters in this thread are going to to defend child pornography/drawn child pornography astounds me. Yes, you can like what you like and it doesn't affect me at all but it does bring up the question of how you could possibly think being sexually attracted to young children is healthy/normal/not bad. The fact that it's more than 1 person made me nearly shit myself. Why is HGN so full of weird people these days? Like a year ago we didn't have any of this constant "I'm a furry, I'm bisexual, I like child porn" shit that is being posted all over the place these days.
What the fuck is wrong with all of you? Do what normal child porn enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself. I would hate for some new player to show up on the forums, see this topic and go "Wow HGN is full of fucked up people." It was bad enough when there was that Furry thread but being a furry isn't illegal so I just ignored it. Child porn is and you're all really fucked up for enjoying it. Yes the drawn form is better than actual child porn since no one gets horribly abused but saying that one form of child porn is better than another is like saying drowning is better than suffocating inside a plastic bag.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 25-08-2011
When I first clicked on this thread I thought it might contain a good debate about privacy on the internet. Instead it's about child porn and why it should be legalized. The amount of effort the posters in this thread are going to to defend child pornography/drawn child pornography astounds me. Yes, you can like what you like and it doesn't affect me at all but it does bring up the question of how you could possibly think being sexually attracted to young children is healthy/normal/not bad. The fact that it's more than 1 person made me nearly shit myself. Why is HGN so full of weird people these days? Like a year ago we didn't have any of this constant "I'm a furry, I'm bisexual, I like child porn" shit that is being posted all over the place these days.
What the fuck is wrong with all of you? Do what normal child porn enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself. I would hate for some new player to show up on the forums, see this topic and go "Wow HGN is full of fucked up people." It was bad enough when there was that Furry thread but being a furry isn't illegal so I just ignored it. Child porn is and you're all really fucked up for enjoying it. Yes the drawn form is better than actual child porn since no one gets horribly abused but saying that one form of child porn is better than another is like saying drowning is better than suffocating inside a plastic bag.
http://www.youtube.com/v/whytAReStUQ&autoplay=1
Ahaha Cool runins mon.
Real child porn is just taken advantage of children.
Also its a bit too late to avoid HGN being labled with all those things consdiering the many insults I got from people concerning the communtiy such as "Weaboo" "FurFag" I am just useing these as examples and so forth but yeah.
Remember kids its only cool when its illegal.
Quote from: Jake on 25-08-2011
Quote from: Kassendraw on 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.
The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.
Epic bitch.
Do you have anything productive to add or are you just going to be an asshole?
Quote from: Paintcheck on 25-08-2011
When I first clicked on this thread I thought it might contain a good debate about privacy on the internet. Instead it's about child porn and why it should be legalized. The amount of effort the posters in this thread are going to to defend child pornography/drawn child pornography astounds me. Yes, you can like what you like and it doesn't affect me at all but it does bring up the question of how you could possibly think being sexually attracted to young children is healthy/normal/not bad. The fact that it's more than 1 person made me nearly shit myself. Why is HGN so full of weird people these days? Like a year ago we didn't have any of this constant "I'm a furry, I'm bisexual, I like child porn" shit that is being posted all over the place these days.
What the fuck is wrong with all of you? Do what normal child porn enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself. I would hate for some new player to show up on the forums, see this topic and go "Wow HGN is full of fucked up people." It was bad enough when there was that Furry thread but being a furry isn't illegal so I just ignored it. Child porn is and you're all really fucked up for enjoying it. Yes the drawn form is better than actual child porn since no one gets horribly abused but saying that one form of child porn is better than another is like saying drowning is better than suffocating inside a plastic bag.
In a more vulgar method, but yes, exactly my point in this aspect. Just because we legalize it doesn't mean it isn't wrong or weird or messed up. Per say, ok, let's say we legalize slavery. Well I think it's been classified well enough to determine that slavery is "wrong" and shouldn't be done. If, per say, and excuse me for using this rather vulgar and personally sickening example. Female slavery, now don't lie, if female slavery was legalized world wide, you guys would be fresh out to the market or to the pretty girl in school or work wouldn't you? I'm sure you'd cough up the pay and do all those crazy weird things to her against her will, but don't worry, it's legal now! Who cares? In fact now that they are our slaves, why treat them like humans? Let's treat them like animals and etc... etc.... etc....
The point is, sure there are advantages, but, one thing leads to another and then boom! Society changes and all of a sudden your seeing 9 years getting in bed with 14 year olds.
Could you please get back on topic by the way? This is a
serious debate
That example was terrible and screams "I am a rabid feminist who hates men". It's hard to take this seriously when you choose something like that to prove your point instead of, say, the arguments about why legalizing marijuana will lead us on a slippery slope to providing precedent for legalizing more dangerous substances or something both considerably more relevant in the real world and more likely to be an actual issue in the near future. The only thing that makes sense in your post is the idea of setting precedents and spiraling out of control which I agree with.
Anonymity on the internet is good, to a degree.
But if you support child porn, animated, drawn, or real, I don't see how you could have any self respect for yourself if you're attracted to 9-12 year olds. But that's just my opinion. As for sticking to your opinions, if you wouldn't say it in real life, don't say it on the fucking internet. It's really stupid to back down from it in real life.
Legalizing things will lead it to doing something worse, because lets be honest, if we legalized marijuana it wouldn't be so popular because it's legal. All of the "cool kids" would be doing the next illegal thing.
Quote from: RavangerRemember kids its only cool when its illegal.
Nobody protects fictional child porn because child porn is generally morally wrong, you know you'd be shunned anywhere, thus you don't protect it in REAL LIFE. And yes, 51 pictures is a lot of fucking child porn.
You've basically said " I support child porn as long as it's not real. "
Sorry to say this, but I deceived you.
It was an experiment from my side to see whether or not I instantly would be flagged as a person with zero morale, or as the above said, with zero self respect if I would appear to be "protecting" it.
And the results, well its pretty much as I expected to be honest, someone tried to talk with me reasonably and with good arguments, which is a good thing, while most of the others had this very aggressive and obvious why-are-people-like-you-even-allowed-to-live tone to their posts.
I think the only way is to talk with these people, and insultibg them trying to make then feel bad about themselves is only making it worse.
Paint mentioned something interesting though.
"do what normal CP enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself"
So there is normal kind of CP enthusiast, as well as other non-normal ones?
What is your definition of a "normal" CP enthusiast?
PS: I didn't create this topic with the intention of making an experiment out of it, its something i decided on later, which also means that my opinion on the matter from my first post still stands.
Well normal has no set definition if we're going to get into terminology. In this case of the debate though I'd suspect normal would be classified as societies set universal "conduct" and "morals" that apply mostly entirely around the world.
Solving the case of the definition of normal in this debate, I believe that it is not feminism to use a example that was simply easy to compare and example with. Setting that aside, the real case is anonymity on the internet and not whether wanting to touch yourself to loli hentai is wrong or not. Anonymity on the internet works both ways, but in a sense it's a moral support. It's true most people act themselves online, as in difference in real life where they won't. The internet is the voice of the people, the true voice. I support anonymity on the internet because it has opened society to new ideas, interests, technologies, etc...
Can we really bash that all away just because of a few cases where somebody did something bad? Well, I'm sure that case could apply to anything else, I don't see a problem with this case either.
Bad thread, Its about anonimity not porn. But I guess you people like discussing your weird fetishes instead.
Unlocked, Just stop talking about fetishes.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2Svwm_k9hYk&autoplay=1
Sorry, this thread is stupider than the "World War III" thread. For two reasons, which have been pointed out 10000 times before but you all ignore them.
Quote from: Smirnoff on 26-08-2011
Sorry to say this, but I deceived you.
It was an experiment from my side to see whether or not I instantly would be flagged as a person with zero morale, or as the above said, with zero self respect if I would appear to be "protecting" it.
And the results, well its pretty much as I expected to be honest, someone tried to talk with me reasonably and with good arguments, which is a good thing, while most of the others had this very aggressive and obvious why-are-people-like-you-even-allowed-to-live tone to their posts.
I think the only way is to talk with these people, and insultibg them trying to make then feel bad about themselves is only making it worse.
Paint mentioned something interesting though.
"do what normal CP enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself"
So there is normal kind of CP enthusiast, as well as other non-normal ones?
What is your definition of a "normal" CP enthusiast?
PS: I didn't create this topic with the intention of making an experiment out of it, its something i decided on later, which also means that my opinion on the matter from my first post still stands.
Nobody could honestly care that much whether you watch child porn, even if you did. The fact you made it an experiment just makes you a fucking twat.
Quote from: Kassendraw on 26-08-2011
Well normal has no set definition if we're going to get into terminology. In this case of the debate though I'd suspect normal would be classified as societies set universal "conduct" and "morals" that apply mostly entirely around the world.
Solving the case of the definition of normal in this debate, I believe that it is not feminism to use a example that was simply easy to compare and example with. Setting that aside, the real case is anonymity on the internet and not whether wanting to touch yourself to loli hentai is wrong or not. Anonymity on the internet works both ways, but in a sense it's a moral support. It's true most people act themselves online, as in difference in real life where they won't. The internet is the voice of the people, the true voice. I support anonymity on the internet because it has opened society to new ideas, interests, technologies, etc...
Can we really bash that all away just because of a few cases where somebody did something bad? Well, I'm sure that case could apply to anything else, I don't see a problem with this case either.
1) Holy shit, there is a set definition for normal. "conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural." In short, it means "average". The norm in society(at least in the US) is that it is immoral to have a sexual relation with a child.
2) The internet is not a "moral support". Morals are principles that guide you as to what is
right and wrong. The internet, by giving people a sense of anonymity, does not reprimand people for being immoral as it does in normal society. This encourages people, especially impressionable youth, to be douchebags to other people. Often times this behavior bleeds over to how they act in real life. Believe it or not, nice people are not born nice and are permanently nice. I was an extremely nice kid when I first started to play online video games, and now I'm often perceived as an asshole. This might be because of the dicks who use the fact they are "anonymous" to except them from the social expectations applied to
normal human beings, making me extremely critical.
Quote from: Cutch on 27-08-2011
1) Holy shit, there is a set definition for normal. "conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural." In short, it means "average". The norm in society(at least in the US) is that it is immoral to have a sexual relation with a child.
2) The internet is not a "moral support". Morals are principles that guide you as to what is right and wrong. The internet, by giving people a sense of anonymity, does not reprimand people for being immoral as it does in normal society. This encourages people, especially impressionable youth, to be douchebags to other people. Often times this behavior bleeds over to how they act in real life. Believe it or not, nice people are not born nice and are permanently nice. I was an extremely nice kid when I first started to play online video games, and now I'm often perceived as an asshole. This might be because of the dicks who use the fact they are "anonymous" to except them from the social expectations applied to normal human beings, making me extremely critical.
1) I later added in that that was the set definition of normal
in this debate. If you have ever been on debate team in a school or working area (Not saying you have to, just saying I am) you would know the the definition of normal is terribly generalist and usually calls for a setting of a more precise knowledge of what normal is to be understood as inside the debate.
2) The internet is in fact a moral support, if you haven't noticed, not just in the videogame world in which most people are generalizing towards on this thread. The internet has thousands and thousands of sites dedicated to helping others, giving counseling, help, etc... to anomalous people on the internet who just can't ask or say these things in real life for X or Y reason. It is a mutual agreement that anonymity on the internet is also a haven for people who do not care or understand the concept that there is another person on the other side of the screen, however, aren't those the people who usually leave quickly or/are banned from whatever community they were in?
What is this...I don't understand it, some sort of...porn discussion, of it's legality? I'm missing out on something...aren't I? Porn...is...'erm...alright, it's ok...to watch I guess you can say, it's your privacy. But...child pornagraphy, even...pic's...I'd rather stay out of that discussion.