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Smirnoff

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on: 08-08-2011
I'd like to discuss  the question of whether or not an opinion counts as an opinion if you're afraid of sticking to it anywhere else but on the internet, and the effects of social masks in politics.

For example, lets take one of the most sensative debates still going on to this day, whether to legalise drawed, animated or otherwise fictional child porn.
I would dare to say most, if not all human beings hide behind a social mask when, say talking to a stranger, or a news paper.
The internet has had huge effects on politics since it allowed people to state their opinions and enter debates with complete anonymity, and I would even go as far as to say the internet is where your "true" self reveals itself.

Thoughts?

PS: Before anyone asks of my opinion regarding fictional child porn, YES, I do support it because it gives the people who prefers that kind of stuff a legal alternative where no children are harmed compared to "the real deal" where real children are abused, harmed and often scarred for life.
One must also take into the effects that these people didn't choose what they are sexually attracted to, in a way how handicapped people didn't choose to be born that way.
For all we know, they could hate and despise themselvse because of it.
If you feel like debating or otherwise discussing that subject, make a new thread, SF, PM or otherwise contact me, but not in this thread, and I also kindly ask all moderators to act upon that request.

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Reply #1 on: 08-08-2011
Loli is legal :V




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Reply #2 on: 08-08-2011
I agree that people do reveal their true selves, which can either be marvelous or terrifying. There are loads of maniacs  out there.



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Reply #3 on: 08-08-2011
I agree that people do reveal their true selves, which can either be marvelous or terrifying. There are loads of maniacs  out there.

WTF, weren't you banned ?


Edit: And yes, I do sometime's enjoy Lolicons, but only with cat girls :V




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Reply #4 on: 08-08-2011
I agree that people do reveal their true selves, which can either be marvelous or terrifying. There are loads of maniacs  out there.

WTF, weren't you banned ?

For a month or so, yeah.



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Reply #5 on: 08-08-2011
I dont see why people make a big deal of Loli/Shota, It's just a fucking drawning/animation. I enjoy loli alot (Got loads of them in my PC lol and just look at my fucking avatar), but i am not a pedophile. I dont go out on the streets hunting children..that's dumb, same thing with incest (about incest i am talking about the society view of it not my personal view,if two brothers or brother and sister or w/e love each other, i dont see why they should ignore that because the society (more the CATHOLIC church) says its bad), In anime its "wincest", in real life, not so cool.
« Last Edit: 08-08-2011 by Chrono »



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Reply #6 on: 08-08-2011
I dont see why people make a big deal of Loli/Shota, It's just a fucking drawning/animation. I enjoy loli alot (Got loads of them in my PC lol and just look at my fucking avatar), but i am not a pedophile. I dont go out on the streets hunting children..that's dumb, same thing with incest (about incest i am talking about the society view of it not my personal view,if two brothers or brother and sister or w/e love each other, i dont see why they should ignore that because the society (more the CATHOLIC church) says its bad), In anime its "wincest", in real life, not so cool.

Same Opinion.

Also: Boku no Pico, got it on my pc :V




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Reply #7 on: 08-08-2011
was reading some traps today...:3



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Reply #8 on: 08-08-2011
was reading some traps today...:3

Reading ? what.




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Reply #9 on: 08-08-2011
Doujinshis man...



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Reply #10 on: 08-08-2011
Doujinshis man...

oh, right xD




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Reply #11 on: 08-08-2011

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deluxulous

Reply #12 on: 08-08-2011
I like how quickly this turned from serious debates to "What kind of porn do you keep on your computer?"
I think that anonymity on the internet should stay. People can have skewed beliefs or views of someone just because they like a certain thing, like you said, especially in politics. Just because someone, for example, plays a video game (not the most serious situation, but I think you get my point) that features violence and guns (Cawwadoody) doesn't mean that person is a warmongering cold-blooded killer. Again, there could be better instances I could have provided (yeah, porn whatever) but it's really the same for every situation. Guilty pleasures do not equal bad people.
As for the opinion debate? You can't change people. They will always act differently in front of their peers, unless they are truly brave/confident people.

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Reply #13 on: 08-08-2011
Loli is illegal in some countries, including the uk now. For "moral" reasons, it's not okay to look at naked young children in sex scenes. Or at least, that's what loli is depicted as. Which i suppose is the right motive, but at the same time, it's a drawing so no one should give a shit. Someone drew it thus it should be counted as art and not of what it's dipicting.

As with anonymity. Yes it's very important. But sadly the government, isps and greedy corporations are trying to make the internet not such a free and anon place to be. Facebook is a huge tool to giving you an identity and it wont be long before websites, government sites and applications like steam give you only one option. That is, logging in\attaching a facebook account. It's only a matter of time and the more it's endorsed the worse it will get.

Stage one on steam was when they "tied" your game names to your steam friends name so you could no longer have a custom name ingame. Which was so dumb.

Stage two is implementing facebook into steam, which clearly shows it's domination.

and finally stage 3 is and will come, when you only have the option to create and tie an account to a network like facebook on a internet scale. Alot of services and websites already give you the option to login through facebook and it will become mandatory in the end. Then you can kiss goodbye to your transparency on the internet.


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Smirnoff

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Reply #14 on: 09-08-2011
As for incest, I agree with Chrono.
Now, I do have siblings myself and I admit I have a hard time understanding how you could gain such feelings for your siblings, but if it makes the two involved happy, then I dont see why anyone else should interfere at all. It should be their descision and theirs only.

And as for lolita, its illegal where I live too, and is punishable with prison.
And although its very rare for them to arrest someone since they have a hard time finding a line between whats pornography and what is art, it still happens from time to time.
It's turning into a witch hunt, people need to understand that the world isn't black and white, and that people can't be divided into one evil and one good group.

And finally regarding increased surveillence, they can keep making rules and laws as much as they want, they are still way too far behind in evolution to be able to enforce them.

"|HGN| G-Man: Dont know what loli is, but i'd lie if I said I havn't seen some of that hentai stuff."


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Reply #15 on: 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.

The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.


jaik

Reply #16 on: 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.

The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.


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Reply #17 on: 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.

The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.


I acctualy think it's kinda good that 9 year old's know what real sex is, to me it's just stupid if it still would be like years ago people thinking you get pregnant by kissing.




Smirnoff

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Reply #18 on: 25-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.

The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.


That is certainly a possible way people could react (and probably would), but most likely they would be a minority, and if we take out the ethical part and weight the consequences and advantages, i'd say the advantages come out on top by far, especially if you consider the amount of unnecessary trials and court cases it would remove in some of the more extreme countries, my own being a perfect example.

As an example, we had a case where a manga and doujin (googe it) collector was jailed for two years for keeping 51 pictures of nude drawn children on his computer (out of approx a million pictures and series he kept on his computer.)
Why they decided to drag him to the court is a mystery, I dont know about you, but atleast I think that if he truly was a child molester, wouldn't he have a bit more then 51 pictures?
I can add that the 51 pictures of the underaged were also part of a collection of other nude, appearently grown up characters of approx 50 000 pictures.

I also would like to know how they reason when they decide the age of the character, because if I made a character look like a child, but is infact a 50 000 year old god, there wouldn't be any problem, right?

Sadly, most of it is all in swedish so I cant post any links since you wouldn't understand a word anyway.

But if we discuss the ethical part, and why it would be unethical to look at a drawn fictional nude child, and why even go as far as to jail people for it, who are they protecting? (Or rather, what harm did said peson cause)
Are they trying to protect a non existant character from sexual "abuse" that never happend?
Just doesn't make sense to me.

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Paintcheck

Reply #19 on: 25-08-2011
When I first clicked on this thread I thought it might contain a good debate about privacy on the internet. Instead it's about child porn and why it should be legalized. The amount of effort the posters in this thread are going to to defend child pornography/drawn child pornography astounds me. Yes, you can like what you like and it doesn't affect me at all but it does bring up the question of how you could possibly think being sexually attracted to young children is healthy/normal/not bad. The fact that it's more than 1 person made me nearly shit myself. Why is HGN so full of weird people these days? Like a year ago we didn't have any of this constant "I'm a furry, I'm bisexual, I like child porn" shit that is being posted all over the place these days. 

What the fuck is wrong with all of you? Do what normal child porn enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself. I would hate for some new player to show up on the forums, see this topic and go "Wow HGN is full of fucked up people." It was bad enough when there was that Furry thread but being a furry isn't illegal so I just ignored it. Child porn is and you're all really fucked up for enjoying it. Yes the drawn form is better than actual child porn since no one gets horribly abused but saying that one form of child porn is better than another is like saying drowning is better than suffocating inside a plastic bag.
« Last Edit: 25-08-2011 by Paintcheck »



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Reply #20 on: 25-08-2011
When I first clicked on this thread I thought it might contain a good debate about privacy on the internet. Instead it's about child porn and why it should be legalized. The amount of effort the posters in this thread are going to to defend child pornography/drawn child pornography astounds me. Yes, you can like what you like and it doesn't affect me at all but it does bring up the question of how you could possibly think being sexually attracted to young children is healthy/normal/not bad. The fact that it's more than 1 person made me nearly shit myself. Why is HGN so full of weird people these days? Like a year ago we didn't have any of this constant "I'm a furry, I'm bisexual, I like child porn" shit that is being posted all over the place these days. 

What the fuck is wrong with all of you? Do what normal child porn enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself. I would hate for some new player to show up on the forums, see this topic and go "Wow HGN is full of fucked up people." It was bad enough when there was that Furry thread but being a furry isn't illegal so I just ignored it. Child porn is and you're all really fucked up for enjoying it. Yes the drawn form is better than actual child porn since no one gets horribly abused but saying that one form of child porn is better than another is like saying drowning is better than suffocating inside a plastic bag.

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« Last Edit: 25-08-2011 by KingArthur »



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Reply #21 on: 25-08-2011
Ahaha Cool runins mon.
Real child porn is just taken advantage of children.
Also its a bit too late to avoid HGN being labled with all those things consdiering the many insults I got from people concerning the communtiy such as "Weaboo" "FurFag" I am just useing these as examples and so forth but yeah.

Remember kids its only cool when its illegal.
« Last Edit: 25-08-2011 by Ravanger »



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Reply #22 on: 26-08-2011
Well if they legalize lolita it might cause, as it has been proven with pornography in general previously, a chain reaction in where; "Oh well, you see, Lolita is legal now! So um, why not step it up a level?" and so real life or other harming might occure. It's true the world isn't black and white, but, as humans we like always constantly changing and evolving things.

The porn industry was terrible before, but they legalized it. Now we see porn everywhere, and what has this accomplished? Our society these days is more sexual than ever! People aren't as innocent as they used to be before, in such a small time zone, there is a difference in between when I was 9 years old. I still thought sex was just kissing, compared to a 9 year old these days, they actually know quite clearly what sex is and even some more vulgar sexual themes due to the exposure it is being given because you can't "Get rid of it" because it's legal.


Epic bitch.

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Reply #23 on: 26-08-2011
When I first clicked on this thread I thought it might contain a good debate about privacy on the internet. Instead it's about child porn and why it should be legalized. The amount of effort the posters in this thread are going to to defend child pornography/drawn child pornography astounds me. Yes, you can like what you like and it doesn't affect me at all but it does bring up the question of how you could possibly think being sexually attracted to young children is healthy/normal/not bad. The fact that it's more than 1 person made me nearly shit myself. Why is HGN so full of weird people these days? Like a year ago we didn't have any of this constant "I'm a furry, I'm bisexual, I like child porn" shit that is being posted all over the place these days. 

What the fuck is wrong with all of you? Do what normal child porn enthusiasts do and keep it to yourself. I would hate for some new player to show up on the forums, see this topic and go "Wow HGN is full of fucked up people." It was bad enough when there was that Furry thread but being a furry isn't illegal so I just ignored it. Child porn is and you're all really fucked up for enjoying it. Yes the drawn form is better than actual child porn since no one gets horribly abused but saying that one form of child porn is better than another is like saying drowning is better than suffocating inside a plastic bag.

In a more vulgar method, but yes, exactly my point in this aspect. Just because we legalize it doesn't mean it isn't wrong or weird or messed up. Per say, ok, let's say we legalize slavery. Well I think it's been classified well enough to determine that slavery is "wrong" and shouldn't be done. If, per say, and excuse me for using this rather vulgar and personally sickening example. Female slavery, now don't lie, if female slavery was legalized world wide, you guys would be fresh out to the market or to the pretty girl in school or work wouldn't you? I'm sure you'd cough up the pay and do all those crazy weird things to her against her will, but don't worry, it's legal now! Who cares? In fact now that they are our slaves, why treat them like humans? Let's treat them like animals and etc... etc.... etc....

The point is, sure there are advantages, but, one thing leads to another and then boom! Society changes and all of a sudden your seeing 9 years getting in bed with 14 year olds.

Could you please get back on topic by the way? This is a serious debate
« Last Edit: 26-08-2011 by Kassendraw »



Paintcheck

Reply #24 on: 26-08-2011
That example was terrible and screams "I am a rabid feminist who hates men". It's hard to take this seriously when you choose something like that to prove your point instead of, say, the arguments about why legalizing marijuana will lead us on a slippery slope to providing precedent for legalizing more dangerous substances or something both considerably more relevant in the real world and more likely to be an actual issue in the near future. The only thing that makes sense in your post is the idea of setting precedents and spiraling out of control which I agree with.



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