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[Video] Is Libertarianism Dead?

Spades_Neil · 2196

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Spades_Neil

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Is Libertarianism Dead?

lol look at all the Paulbots running to the rescue of Libertarianism.



Here's my opinion:
Libertarianism is stupid. It thinks that people can regulate themselves and the free market will balance on its own and mean prosperity for all.
Much in the same way Marxism is stupid. It thinks people can govern themselves and their society will balance on its own and mean prosperity for all.

Left or Right, both ideas are stupid on their own. Combine them, however, a Social Capitalist (if that is the correct wording) system like we used to have in the United States before Regan came along and ruined it all. Socialism and Capitalism are not like oil and water. They can mix very effectively.


However, Corporatism is incompatible with Democracy. You need look no further than the American Government. Who's really in power? The voters, or the fucks who have the money to bribe and corrupt our politicians?!
« Last Edit: 05-05-2012 by Spades_Neil »



Gonztah

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Reply #1 on: 05-05-2012
In conclusion. Europe is a better place to live.



Spades_Neil

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Reply #2 on: 05-05-2012
In conclusion. Europe is a better place to live.

Actually the video says most of Europe is fucked.



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Reply #3 on: 05-05-2012
Propaganda and BS. Europe is doing just fine.



Knife_cz

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Reply #4 on: 05-05-2012
Propaganda and BS. Europe is doing just fine.
Then you obviously don't live in Czech Republic.
Its bad.




Gonztah

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Reply #5 on: 05-05-2012
How bad exactly?



Knife_cz

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Reply #6 on: 05-05-2012
How bad exactly?
Let us see..in every way.




meetdadoom

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Reply #7 on: 09-05-2012
Yeah, Europe is actually having a economic crisis as opposed to the US and other nations.

Spades, don't use RT as your source for information, they are hardcore propagandist and main motivation is to frame America as Hill Billies and a shitty country and make Russia seem like the best place to live. It's really funny in fact, to watch them try to pimp Russia out when Russia can barely manage it self.

Anyways Spades, your liberal arguement of stating that "The corporations control the vote" is true however it is not as bad as you make it out. Big Corporations are what leads the American economy. Not the little mom and pa stores. Although yes, it is insane how corrupt most ceo's have been, it is all simply because of the much deregulations of laws that we held that made it so Big Buisness can't get too greedy. Stating that increasing taxes on the rich to make them fork over their cash is not going to work because you fuck over a lot of people who deserve to be the 10% and if ceos wanted, they will evade the taxes. You just need to regulate big buisness a little bit more, it has nothing to do with taxes that many liberals and conservatives argue over.

Your statement that socialism and capitilism can mix efficiently is the most incorrect statement ever. There is a reason why countries like Spain and Greece are doing such shit. The government went broke when they started to implementing all these government funding laws that helped increase the middle class's standing however in turn Spain is getting hit hard. Greece, isn't even a country because they tried to do socialistic ideas.


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Gonztah

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Reply #8 on: 09-05-2012
There is a middleground between socialism and capitalism...



Spades_Neil

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Reply #9 on: 09-05-2012
Yeah, Europe is actually having a economic crisis as opposed to the US and other nations.

Spades, don't use RT as your source for information, they are hardcore propagandist and main motivation is to frame America as Hill Billies and a shitty country and make Russia seem like the best place to live. It's really funny in fact, to watch them try to pimp Russia out when Russia can barely manage it self.

Anyways Spades, your liberal arguement of stating that "The corporations control the vote" is true however it is not as bad as you make it out. Big Corporations are what leads the American economy. Not the little mom and pa stores. Although yes, it is insane how corrupt most ceo's have been, it is all simply because of the much deregulations of laws that we held that made it so Big Buisness can't get too greedy. Stating that increasing taxes on the rich to make them fork over their cash is not going to work because you fuck over a lot of people who deserve to be the 10% and if ceos wanted, they will evade the taxes. You just need to regulate big buisness a little bit more, it has nothing to do with taxes that many liberals and conservatives argue over.

Your statement that socialism and capitilism can mix efficiently is the most incorrect statement ever. There is a reason why countries like Spain and Greece are doing such shit. The government went broke when they started to implementing all these government funding laws that helped increase the middle class's standing however in turn Spain is getting hit hard. Greece, isn't even a country because they tried to do socialistic ideas.

Interesting counter-argument. You've got some good points. Though mind you I dare not use Russia Today as my only source, much in the same way a Fox News viewer would be an idiot to simply cite Fox News upon these topics. That is why I present the thread's topic as a question as opposed to a statement, followed by my opinions rather than solid facts (yet), thus leaving it open to debate.

Though why do you say we cannot mix Socialism with Capitalism? We've been doing it for years. That's why we have schools, fire departments, roads, welfare, I could go down the list in fact. You may be mistakenly interpreting Socialism as the media paints it, rather than its actuality. Though if we're viewing socialism from that perspective, then you'd be completely correct that Socialism and Capitalism cannot mix. Either way I'd like you to go more into detail about countries like Greece and Spain.

You just need to regulate big buisness a little bit more, it has nothing to do with taxes that many liberals and conservatives argue over.

This pretty much sums it up actually. This is why I say mix Socialism and Capitalism, although this could be a poorly worded statement. I think I prefer Gonztah's words.

There is a middleground between socialism and capitalism...

^ That's what I meant.

Point being I've gone to the Occupy rallies, but I don't fully agree with some among them. The media paints Occupy falsely as a socialist movement, when most of it is about just making the corporations stop using illegitimate practices to evade taxes, earn record profits, and lay off thousands of people at our level. That's why we hear the buzz words about making them pay more taxes. It's a little more complex than that.

On the other hand you have people who agree with Socialism, even Communism, and will argue as such for Occupy. Then there are the Libertarian dopes who think a free market can regulate its self and the current economic disaster is because of too much regulation. As for me, I don't mind someone being incredibly wealthy if they earned it legitimately. Let them be greedy if they so please! Thus is the joy of capitalism! What I don't like however is how these same rich bastards often break the law to get that way. If they can't break the law, they bribe some congressmen until they change the laws. Nearly the entire Republican Party (and arguably a good portion of the Democratic party as well) are in the pockets of these 'fat cats'.

I forget where I heard this, so don't quote me on this because I'm not a valid source. Somewhere I remember hearing the current congress being called the most corrupt in history. However, when I tried looking up those words, it just looks like a bunch of biased statements from both the left and the right. Republican-led Congress is most corrupt (though their rating are also in the shitter), but then they say Obama is most corrupt, so I won't waste my time deciding who is to blame there.
« Last Edit: 09-05-2012 by Spades_Neil »



meetdadoom

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Reply #10 on: 09-05-2012
It simply can not agree. Stating that because of mixing socialism we get roads, and police officers is the most incorrect statement. Instead of the government hiring people to make a road like CCC and WPA back in the 40's with the new deal, a private company builds one or the government hires a private company to build one. Police officers will always be around and same as fire departments, I don't see how we can't have the two if we lived in an even libertarian society.

Socialist ideas don't even work like free Health Care. Free health care sounds like an AWESOME idea but think about. Sure you'll get the free pills you can pop when you got a tummy ache and the flu but when you are faced with an actual problem that requires a lot of money, there is no way in hell a government wants to spend on the average joe. The Government would actively find a reason on why not to spend money on your expensive treatment. Look it Canada. Mal-practice law suits, and people coming over to American hospitals.

Spain, Greece, Ireland have all fallen under a recession because they are all spending more money to improve the quality of life. This made them seem a lot better back when the economy was still kicking however when the major economies like Germany and Uk took a small hit, these countries took a major hit meaning that the Spanish/Ireland/Greek government is in even more debt. If you don't get it still it is because the government spent a chunk of their money on making people happy, but now that their life lines are not importing as much spanish/irish/Greek goods, those three governments took a big hit which could have been fixed with the money they spent on improving the quality of life.

Occupy wall street was a huge flop of a rally that instead of imprinting the meaning upon society as it dies, they lost the meaning. The occupy wall street's arguement that they are against the 10% is stupid. Only a small portion of the top 10% are actual ceos and much less are corrupt. Funny story, I will admit I live amongst the upper 80%. My father is a foreign stock trader. Why the hell were the occupy wall street people picketing his office?

Stating the Republican party is all corrupt just made me finally realize, I can't argue with you. If you actually think the republicans are all corrupt than you have been watching too many Michael Moore movies.

Also history lesson bitches. Our economy got worse with FDR and his new Deal because of excessive government spending. The only reason why we managed to pull out was because of one man who saved the American Economy. Adolf Hitler. Think about it.


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Spades_Neil

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Reply #11 on: 10-05-2012
It simply can not agree. Stating that because of mixing socialism we get roads, and police officers is the most incorrect statement. Instead of the government hiring people to make a road like CCC and WPA back in the 40's with the new deal, a private company builds one or the government hires a private company to build one. Police officers will always be around and same as fire departments, I don't see how we can't have the two if we lived in an even libertarian society.

Because police officers and fire departments will work for free, right?
Please, try to be realistic. For the same reason I think the Marxists are stupid, Libertarianism won't survive without the same motivation: Money (or other material goods trade).

And I'm sure private companies totally won't cut corners or anything to spend the least amount of money giving us a mediocre repair for our country's shit infrastructure.
No, wait, actually they do. In fact they already do. My father is a stone mason who spends most of his work fixing up shitty jobs done by other "grade A landscaping corporations" who didn't do fuck-all about the longevity of their work.

But hey, if their work actually lasted, that's bad for profits! It means they don't get to be paid to go and fix it! Funny how honest masons like my father actually lose money by doing the job right the first damn time.

Socialist ideas don't even work like free Health Care. Free health care sounds like an AWESOME idea but think about. Sure you'll get the free pills you can pop when you got a tummy ache and the flu but when you are faced with an actual problem that requires a lot of money, there is no way in hell a government wants to spend on the average joe. The Government would actively find a reason on why not to spend money on your expensive treatment. Look it Canada. Mal-practice law suits, and people coming over to American hospitals.

I don't know about you, but I know a lot of Canadians who think their healthcare is absolutely fine. Hell, I have teachers at college who came to the United States from Canada. She said herself it's not as bad as Americans think it is. In fact she wonders why America doesn't have free healthcare.

Spain, Greece, Ireland have all fallen under a recession because they are all spending more money to improve the quality of life. This made them seem a lot better back when the economy was still kicking however when the major economies like Germany and Uk took a small hit, these countries took a major hit meaning that the Spanish/Ireland/Greek government is in even more debt. If you don't get it still it is because the government spent a chunk of their money on making people happy, but now that their life lines are not importing as much spanish/irish/Greek goods, those three governments took a big hit which could have been fixed with the money they spent on improving the quality of life.

No, they crashed and burned for many more reasons than that. If your statement was true in the slightest, why are there plenty of "socialist" countries that are doing absolutely fine? Say, Iceland for instance? Sweden? Of course Iceland had its problems, but they quickly solved them by attacking the real source of the problem: The so-called 'banksters'.

Occupy wall street was a huge flop of a rally that instead of imprinting the meaning upon society as it dies, they lost the meaning. The occupy wall street's arguement that they are against the 10% is stupid. Only a small portion of the top 10% are actual ceos and much less are corrupt. Funny story, I will admit I live amongst the upper 80%. My father is a foreign stock trader. Why the hell were the occupy wall street people picketing his office?

If it were 10% it'd be stupid. That just shows how little you actually know of the movement. The phrase they use is "1%." They are the "99%." Don't get me started on the statistics that piss us off.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/how-the-top-1-percent-made-its-money-in-two-charts/2011/10/11/gIQAXL4acL_blog.html
http://www.epi.org/publication/income_inequality_it_wasnt_always_this_way/ <- The "1%" still makes vastly more money than you do, or in fact, the rest of the top 10%.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html#s932005&title=Wage_Inequality

I could go on for hours with this stuff.

Stating the Republican party is all corrupt just made me finally realize, I can't argue with you. If you actually think the republicans are all corrupt than you have been watching too many Michael Moore movies.

One, I don't even know who the hell Michael Moore is. I'm not a guy who's into movies.

Two, calling me liberal to begin with made me realize I won't have any luck convincing you either, but I've been surprised before. I've met several Republican voting gentlemen who both know what Socialism actually is and understand its role in American society (even if we dare not call it what it actually is), but can still make their objections to it. However, they also had their own arguments with their own rational thought to back it up. Clearly you've been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh, because I've heard these arguments parroted a hundred times before. However I can at least provide sources for others to look at when they see this argument. Though, no shit not all Republicans are corrupt. I also didn't say they all were. If I recall, I wrote;

Quote
Nearly the entire Republican Party (and arguably a good portion of the Democratic party as well) are in the pockets of these 'fat cats'.

Of course your perspective may be Republican voters. Not just Republican politicians. If that were the case then you'd be completely justified in calling me out over that.

As for politicians however, good luck with that. By the way, make sure you read what I said well. I mention Republicans because they are the greater opinion in Congress right now and all they've done is play the political game. They've done nothing they promised when Americans voted for them. They bought and hijacked the Tea Party which could have been a great movement if only it wasn't turned into a bunch of useful idiots for the Koch Brothers.

Here's a fact you may find amusing; I had my perspective about the Tea Party given significantly more respect by none other than a rational Republican. Do I agree with him? Well obviously not on everything. However I respected his point of view because he knew what he was talking about. He knew what Socialism is and how it pays

Though, good luck telling me of any other politician today who isn't in the pocket of someone. No, really, go ahead. Try looking up such information. I challenge you in fact to find a Congressman who has not been part of illicit activity.

Oh, note I said congressman. Not Republican if that makes you feel any better. Democrats are pretty fucked as well, though the only reason I find myself voting for them is they at least try to give something back. That's why while Obama's ratings are roughly 40% last time I checked, and Congress has its ratings down to the single digits.


Also history lesson bitches. Our economy got worse with FDR and his new Deal because of excessive government spending. The only reason why we managed to pull out was because of one man who saved the American Economy. Adolf Hitler. Think about it.

History lesson: The United States economy was actually getting better until roughly 1938 where we had a smaller recession brought on by changes to the New Deal by (guess who?) the Republicans of the time. World War II ultimately is what crushed that, because the war was great from an economic perspective for any resource-rich country like the United States. However, to give the credit of fixing the American economy to Hitler by starting the war is both ill-informed and overly simplified.
« Last Edit: 10-05-2012 by Spades_Neil »



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