Now I've heard mixed desires for the Mosin Nagant in STALKER. Some people believe it should remain a high tier, high power weapon because after all it was a damn good sniper rifle.
Others who have played things like Misery Mod believe the Nagant should be an entry-level weapon. Makes sense... The gun is old, and probably beaten up, and doesn't fire like it used to.
Personally I think it should be a mid tier weapon that serves as a slower-firing, unscoped substitute to the SVD Dragunov.
I don't like nerfing damage because it doesn't make sense for two different guns firing a certain bullet to do more or less damage. Sure some weapons have higher muzzle velocity than others using the same rounds, but the difference is negligible. But this isn't a simulation. This is a roleplaying server. I therefore have to maintain balance when scripting new SWEPs. So how am I supposed to balance it?
I can sacrifice accuracy for a cheaper pricetag. I can leave it highly accurate and highly powered, but then the weapon becomes more expensive because demand goes up. The question is what the community wants.
Post below for your preferences on how the Mosin should be handled. Should it be a cheap, poorly maintained but widespread rookie weapon? Should it be another average weapon for sharpshooters who prefer a Mosin as their first stepping stone toward a more reliable sniper of some kind? Or should it remain a high tier weapon that only the veterans carry around for its sheer power and accuracy?
Widespread & rookie.
Quote from: Steven :D on 14-01-2013
Widespread & rookie.
I agree with this.
Why start a new topic on this.. seems rather unnecessary.
Not so much "wide spread" but definitely a rookie weapon. Obviously it should have its downgrades from a modern sniper. Poor rate of fire, good damage and less accuracy than the SVD and a pain in the ass reload time. Its meant to be shit compared to modern day weapons.
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
Quote from: irondeity on 14-01-2013
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR)
40 US Dollar equals
1208.36 Russian Ruble
Oh cool, I can farm one in three hours of playing SRP
Ah, nope. It's just me, Gabe Newell. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lD8N1YCVxc#ws)
Quote from: Rebel6609 on 14-01-2013
Why start a new topic on this.. seems rather unnecessary.
Wasn't aware that there was a Mosin discussion thread. There's another discussion thread but right now I want feedback regarding
only the Mosin.
Why not just make a "Spades' Development Megathread" thread and put everything you have done on it.
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Why not just make a "Spades' Development Megathread" thread and put everything you have done on it.
>implying I've done that much
All I do is script SWEPs lol
Such a thread would only provide an opportunity for me to spam the crap out of the forums bragging about the trivial tasks I have performed. Unless you guys are legitimately interested in hearing what progress I've made.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Why not just make a "Spades' Development Megathread" thread and put everything you have done on it.
>implying I've done that much
All I do is script SWEPs lol
Such a thread would only provide an opportunity for me to spam the crap out of the forums bragging about the trivial tasks I have performed. Unless you guys are legitimately interested in hearing what progress I've made.
Refer to http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/ (http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/)
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Why not just make a "Spades' Development Megathread" thread and put everything you have done on it.
>implying I've done that much
All I do is script SWEPs lol
Such a thread would only provide an opportunity for me to spam the crap out of the forums bragging about the trivial tasks I have performed. Unless you guys are legitimately interested in hearing what progress I've made.
Refer to http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/ (http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/)
>still implying I've done nearly that much work
I don't think you get me Frostee.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-01-2013
I don't think you get me Frostee.
Whoever does?
so yeah I think the mosin should be mid-level gun
because you guys don't know how guns work
why don't we make all of the guns balanced and not trashy?
like that makarov
everyone loves (see: hates) the makarov because of how accurate it is
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Why not just make a "Spades' Development Megathread" thread and put everything you have done on it.
>implying I've done that much
All I do is script SWEPs lol
Such a thread would only provide an opportunity for me to spam the crap out of the forums bragging about the trivial tasks I have performed. Unless you guys are legitimately interested in hearing what progress I've made.
Refer to http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/ (http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/)
>still implying I've done nearly that much work
I don't think you get me Frostee.
Are you trying to greentext on HGN.
Quote from: Plunger on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 14-01-2013
Quote from: Frostee on 14-01-2013
Why not just make a "Spades' Development Megathread" thread and put everything you have done on it.
>implying I've done that much
All I do is script SWEPs lol
Such a thread would only provide an opportunity for me to spam the crap out of the forums bragging about the trivial tasks I have performed. Unless you guys are legitimately interested in hearing what progress I've made.
Refer to http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/ (http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/the-cordon/srp-script-updates-radiationscript-4worldscript/)
>still implying I've done nearly that much work
I don't think you get me Frostee.
Are you trying to greentext on HGN.
I'm part of the quote pyramid too
How the fuck can a Mosin Nagant be less accurate than an SVD? A Mosin Nagant's effective range is 500 metres and when comparing accuracy, it was on par with a Kar98, which in turn was considered a Rifleman's Rolls Royce.
Quote from: lolKieck on 15-01-2013
How the fuck can a Mosin Nagant be less accurate than an SVD? A Mosin Nagant's effective range is 500 metres and when comparing accuracy, it was on par with a Kar98, which in turn was considered a Rifleman's Rolls Royce.
Because this is a roleplay, not a gun simulator.
Quote from: knife_cz on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Lent23 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: lolKieck on 15-01-2013
How the fuck can a Mosin Nagant be less accurate than an SVD? A Mosin Nagant's effective range is 500 metres and when comparing accuracy, it was on par with a Kar98, which in turn was considered a Rifleman's Rolls Royce.
Because this is a roleplay, not a gun simulator.
That is such a retarded answer Lent that your post gave me a cancer.
It's similar to asking how a Sunrise can actually have a bullet resistance of 30% when it's essentially made of leather and plastic. It explicitly says in-game that it has hardly any resistance to a meager 9mm (A caliber with notoriously bad stopping power, if you've ever actually compared calibers) Why do we have it as 30% then? Because it's meant to act as a game mechanic, rather than a completely 100% realistic representation of leather and plastic.
Quote from: Lent23 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: knife_cz on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Lent23 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: lolKieck on 15-01-2013
How the fuck can a Mosin Nagant be less accurate than an SVD? A Mosin Nagant's effective range is 500 metres and when comparing accuracy, it was on par with a Kar98, which in turn was considered a Rifleman's Rolls Royce.
Because this is a roleplay, not a gun simulator.
That is such a retarded answer Lent that your post gave me a cancer.
It's similar to asking how a Sunrise can actually have a bullet resistance of 30% when it's essentially made of leather and plastic. It explicitly says in-game that it has hardly any resistance to a meager 9mm (A caliber with notoriously bad stopping power, if you've ever actually compared calibers) Why do we have it as 30% then? Because it's meant to act as a game mechanic, rather than a completely 100% realistic representation of leather and plastic.
He's got a point.
Even still, 500 meters? Most modern military rifles can already hit up to that range accurately if given to a good marksman if I am not mistaken. The SVD Dragunov was designed by the Russians with a new philosophy for all troops to be capable of long-ranged engagements up to
800 yards, further than any assault rifle can effectively engage at. A literal army of snipers. I think the idea was discarded, but the rifle remained in service. That being said, the Mosin, if
only capable of hitting accurately up to 500 meters, therefore is
not as accurate as an SVD.
Assuming I remember my research correct.
Regardless, so far it being an entry level weapon is being the vote. Provided, 'entry level' does not mean 'shit horrible accuracy' it just means it'll be balanced toward the lower end of the weapons. The Makarov for example
actually shoots effectively in the new SWEP base, but it's still inaccurate for both realism and gameplay. My excuse for the Mosin's potential lack of accuracy is "the gun is old and doesn't fire like it used to." I might just make a second SWEP of the same gun but a sort of "refurbished" version, meaning it'd instead be a mid-level weapon with better accuracy and less recoil.
Other than that this is for a game, how many people plan to have gun fights at that range of 500 meters? And without a scope.
Make them both entry, just the refurb be cheaper even more, but less accurate.
The Mosin is a cheap gun for anyone to use. It's accuracy will depend on who's shooting it.
Accurate but with a bit slow rate of fire and reload time. No need to put another weapon out of reach of freshly spawned stalkers/players.
Do any of you even own a mosin?
Quote from: Sharrock on 15-01-2013
Do any of you even own a mosin?
Do you?
Quote from: Sharrock on 15-01-2013
Do any of you even own a mosin?
yes
and I always see at least one other person with one every time I go to the range, they are insanely common (and kickass at that)
Quote from: Sharrock on 15-01-2013
Do any of you even own a mosin?
Well Sharrock, thank you for doing the polar opposite of what is constructive.
Well you're all saying it needs to be low-tier. Go use one, and yes frost I do own one.
35 million~ produced
(Wikipedia)
May not be low tier, certainly common.
Quote from: Maxi96203 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Sharrock on 15-01-2013
Do any of you even own a mosin?
Well Sharrock, thank you for doing the polar opposite of what is constructive.
such is the way of him and his people.
You guys have to stop looking at purely the statistics with this particular weapon, and rather at the other implications with it.
The way the weapon was designed when I first made it was basically on point with everything mentioned: high damage, high accuracy, low ROF and I believe the reload time was decently long (however long the animation was.) I actually tried using it during a firefight once and it wasn't very effective due to the way people actually do STK fights in the server - lots of strafing and moving between cover. It was extremely difficult to hit moving targets as well. Since automatic weapons are by far the most popular action in weapons already on the server, using the Mosin actually presents you with a disadvantage. Suppressive fire is almost nonexistent, and you only get one shot off before you probably have to duck behind cover. Your enemie(s) (who probably have automatics) will know this, and use it against you. It will be easier for them to keep you pinned in one spot, and if you run, it will be easier for them to hit you while you're moving. If you fire a shot, duck behind cover, then peek out, you'll probably get immediately cut down by someone waiting for you to peek again.
You might say, "OH BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SVD?!?" The SVD is semi-automatic, has a scope, and I'm assuming will do similar damage to the Mosin which may or may not have just as good accuracy.
That's my stance on the issue. 1v1 firefights it will be very shit depending on the weaponry of your opponents. The tactics that you would have to apply with this weapon for it to be effective can also be very effective with any other weapon, which again, presents it with a disadvantage.
I don't have a particularly strong opinion on it, but I think it should be a low-mid tier weapon for the reasons listed above.
Brandon I hope you realize "30% protection" still is pretty shit. It's also a Flak Vest too.
Quote from: PistolKid on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Maxi96203 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Sharrock on 15-01-2013
Do any of you even own a mosin?
Well Sharrock, thank you for doing the polar opposite of what is constructive.
such is the way of him and his people.
You guys have to stop looking at purely the statistics with this particular weapon, and rather at the other implications with it.
The way the weapon was designed when I first made it was basically on point with everything mentioned: high damage, high accuracy, low ROF and I believe the reload time was decently long (however long the animation was.) I actually tried using it during a firefight once and it wasn't very effective due to the way people actually do STK fights in the server - lots of strafing and moving between cover. It was extremely difficult to hit moving targets as well. Since automatic weapons are by far the most popular action in weapons already on the server, using the Mosin actually presents you with a disadvantage. Suppressive fire is almost nonexistent, and you only get one shot off before you probably have to duck behind cover. Your enemie(s) (who probably have automatics) will know this, and use it against you. It will be easier for them to keep you pinned in one spot, and if you run, it will be easier for them to hit you while you're moving. If you fire a shot, duck behind cover, then peek out, you'll probably get immediately cut down by someone waiting for you to peek again.
You might say, "OH BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SVD?!?" The SVD is semi-automatic, has a scope, and I'm assuming will do similar damage to the Mosin which may or may not have just as good accuracy.
That's my stance on the issue. 1v1 firefights it will be very shit depending on the weaponry of your opponents. The tactics that you would have to apply with this weapon for it to be effective can also be very effective with any other weapon, which again, presents it with a disadvantage.
I don't have a particularly strong opinion on it, but I think it should be a low-mid tier weapon for the reasons listed above.
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F1Ogij&hash=fedb9083ac4cd5ba9dce9a69714269a3d10a7c99)
i like what this guy thinks
I don't really see what's left to discuss.
This is a gun that's only going to help if you plan to get the first shot off on an unsuspecting target.
A Makarov wielding player could easily take down a Mosin user.
Quote from: PistolKid on 15-01-2013
(Extensive reason why the Mosin should be lower-mid tier)
This is how I felt about it.
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-01-2013
Quote from: irondeity on 14-01-2013
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR)
40 US Dollar equals
1208.36 Russian Ruble
Oh cool, I can farm one in three hours of playing SRP
Implying that SRP's Ruble = Real life Rus. Ruble.
Quote from: Nik3 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-01-2013
Quote from: irondeity on 14-01-2013
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR)
40 US Dollar equals
1208.36 Russian Ruble
Oh cool, I can farm one in three hours of playing SRP
Implying that SRP's Ruble = Real life Rus. Ruble.
yes
it is
russia pretty much owns ukraine
The Ukrainian hryvnia is actually worth more than the ruble, FYI.
Quote from: lolKieck on 16-01-2013
Quote from: Nik3 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-01-2013
Quote from: irondeity on 14-01-2013
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR)
40 US Dollar equals
1208.36 Russian Ruble
Oh cool, I can farm one in three hours of playing SRP
Implying that SRP's Ruble = Real life Rus. Ruble.
yes
it is
russia pretty much owns ukraine
lolKieck, you say a lot of dumb things, but this is easily one of the dumbest things I've yet read from you. That's like saying the US "pretty much owns" Cuba. I'd go into a lengthy explanation of why you're wrong, but you'll probably deflect it all so I'll not waste my breath.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 16-01-2013
Quote from: lolKieck on 16-01-2013
Quote from: Nik3 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-01-2013
Quote from: irondeity on 14-01-2013
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR)
40 US Dollar equals
1208.36 Russian Ruble
Oh cool, I can farm one in three hours of playing SRP
Implying that SRP's Ruble = Real life Rus. Ruble.
yes
it is
russia pretty much owns ukraine
lolKieck, you say a lot of dumb things, but this is easily one of the dumbest things I've yet read from you. That's like saying the US "pretty much owns" Cuba. I'd go into a lengthy explanation of why you're wrong, but you'll probably deflect it all so I'll not waste my breath.
Ever heard of Donetsk? For your information, it's one of the most industrialized areas of Ukraine and it's inhabited mainly by Russians. Ukraine does something not cool for Russians and whoops! Suddenly Ukraine gets a plebiscite in which most people declare Soviet(not joking)/Russian identity and they lose at least 1/3 of their industry, not to mention their natural gas deposits. And guess what, even if Ukraine is independent from Russia, their economy is still too weak and too dependant on Russia. So...
Quote from: lolKieck on 16-01-2013
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 16-01-2013
Quote from: lolKieck on 16-01-2013
Quote from: Nik3 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-01-2013
Quote from: irondeity on 14-01-2013
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR)
40 US Dollar equals
1208.36 Russian Ruble
Oh cool, I can farm one in three hours of playing SRP
Implying that SRP's Ruble = Real life Rus. Ruble.
yes
it is
russia pretty much owns ukraine
lolKieck, you say a lot of dumb things, but this is easily one of the dumbest things I've yet read from you. That's like saying the US "pretty much owns" Cuba. I'd go into a lengthy explanation of why you're wrong, but you'll probably deflect it all so I'll not waste my breath.
Ever heard of Donetsk? For your information, it's one of the most industrialized areas of Ukraine and it's inhabited mainly by Russians. Ukraine does something not cool for Russians and whoops! Suddenly Ukraine gets a plebiscite in which most people declare Soviet(not joking)/Russian identity and they lose at least 1/3 of their industry, not to mention their natural gas deposits. And guess what, even if Ukraine is independent from Russia, their economy is still too weak and too dependant on Russia. So...
So what your saying is, We'll keep it at a low-mid tier gun with what pistol said and be happy with this topic, right? Right, lets do that.
For the accuracy question the easiest way to justify that ICly is the Mosin is WW2 surplus. Most guns don't shoot very well after 50 years of neglect in a Russian bunker.
And Spades the SVD was designed as what we now call a "designated marksman's rifle". It was always a specialists' weapon, it was never supposed to create "a literal army of snipers".
Quote from: Nik3 on 15-01-2013
Quote from: Lent23 on 14-01-2013
Quote from: irondeity on 14-01-2013
Ill need to agree with the aboves. It is indeed roleplay rather than simulation, but the Mosin is also the single most mass produced weapon in existence. Theyre everywhere, and theyre as cheap as a dinner at Olive Garden for two people.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080704143238AAcBPSR)
40 US Dollar equals
1208.36 Russian Ruble
Oh cool, I can farm one in three hours of playing SRP
Implying that SRP's Ruble = Real life Rus. Ruble.
Stop implying in every topic you post in.
Just make the Mosin Nagant an unscoped mid tier weapon.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 16-01-2013
For the accuracy question the easiest way to justify that ICly is the Mosin is WW2 surplus. Most guns don't shoot very well after 50 years of neglect in a Russian bunker.
And Spades the SVD was designed as what we now call a "designated marksman's rifle". It was always a specialists' weapon, it was never supposed to create "a literal army of snipers".
Well, when I say "snipers" I'm referring to what most people call snipers when they mean marksmen.
A true sniper usually works in a team of two, spends days getting to their objective, deep behind enemy lines, etc. etc. etc... No I'm aware that the appropriate term is 'Marksman'. A designated marksman is just the guy in the squad who shoots with a scope on his gun to engage over (I think) 500 meters.
As for the Mosin, yea, that's the same justification I was going to use.
Quote from: Spades_Neil on 16-01-2013
Quote from: Paintcheck on 16-01-2013
For the accuracy question the easiest way to justify that ICly is the Mosin is WW2 surplus. Most guns don't shoot very well after 50 years of neglect in a Russian bunker.
And Spades the SVD was designed as what we now call a "designated marksman's rifle". It was always a specialists' weapon, it was never supposed to create "a literal army of snipers".
Well, when I say "snipers" I'm referring to what most people call snipers when they mean marksmen.
A true sniper usually works in a team of two, spends days getting to their objective, deep behind enemy lines, etc. etc. etc... No I'm aware that the appropriate term is 'Marksman'. A designated marksman is just the guy in the squad who shoots with a scope on his gun to engage over (I think) 500 meters.
As for the Mosin, yea, that's the same justification I was going to use.
Gee Spades, when did you take your tour of duty.
If I could chart the amount of stupid in this thread, it would be an exponential curve.
Eh, Rag's right. I got the info I needed. Mosin shall be low-mid tier.