SRP: Economy Discussion (Because it needs its own spot)

[Tom]

I've never ever ever saw an Ak74m go above 3000 rubles or any gun in that matter go above what they normally sell for at various traders, so having money in circulation (a lot of money) doesn't have any affected on our pseudo economy

[SGT-Spartans]

To Khorne

A good RP community has never been around that has had strict rules restraining its community. You can't force people to not do something. People will hoard if they want to. Providing a regime of rules makes the server look unattractive. Flags for all SRP players that spawn them with default guns will destroy the economy. The whole idea of gear progression shouldn't be there if we just make it so bullets do what they do...Usually kill or disable. There should be no reason in a RP a makarov gets laughed at. It can do as much damage as a gun of the same caliber.

This makes it so guns mostly become somewhat of an aesthetic, or a level of professionalism. But of course, better quality guns do operate better. I think that should be the focus on gear. Not new items and models, but tiers of quality. For example, in Dark Heresy, a good craftsmanship rifle will do much better than an average one in a combat scenario. Perhaps the AK you spawn with is of mediocre quality. The only reason you'd buy another gun is for the quality to be better, or for a different combat situation ( DMR, or shotgun for long/close range ).

EDIT: I know this isnt entirely on-topic but it has to do with the need/want of guns and gear.

[StickyWicket]

Basically, I don't want to see people loosing upwards of half of their characters value on a weapon just because he wanted to do an STK and lost. Hell, if an average stalker has 10000 rubles in assets and than looses a 2000 RU weapon it's a travesty. And in most cases, this is true.


GR solves this problem, but it requires admins, people complain, and it's much harder to do than simply reducing the stinking price of weapons! Not only that, but when people do go without GR and die they fell regretful rather than happy that they had a nice battle with someone.

[Khorn]

To Khorne

A good RP community has never been around that has had strict rules restraining its community. You can't force people to not do something. People will hoard if they want to. Providing a regime of rules makes the server look unattractive. Flags for all SRP players that spawn them with default guns will destroy the economy. The whole idea of gear progression shouldn't be there if we just make it so bullets do what they do...Usually kill or disable. There should be no reason in a RP a makarov gets laughed at. It can do as much damage as a gun of the same caliber.

This makes it so guns mostly become somewhat of an aesthetic, or a level of professionalism. But of course, better quality guns do operate better. I think that should be the focus on gear. Not new items and models, but tiers of quality. For example, in Dark Heresy, a good craftsmanship rifle will do much better than an average one in a combat scenario. Perhaps the AK you spawn with is of mediocre quality. The only reason you'd buy another gun is for the quality to be better, or for a different combat situation ( DMR, or shotgun for long/close range ).

EDIT: I know this isnt entirely on-topic but it has to do with the need/want of guns and gear.

I'm not sure what point you were going at toward me with this. But, I haven't suggested adding any new rules. Just making the game play in a different way so that new rules wouldn't need to be added, or worried about needing enforcement. And I've already said guns should be balanced and not nerfed like how the makarov gotten.


I don't see a reason to add quality, you basically said balance the guns, then debalance them somewhat depending on their quality.

We don't need to add guns(I never said we should), and we don't need to add quality tiers. Now, adding in degrading that a mechanic had to repair, would be somewhat nice.

It'd make a new job be official.

[Paintcheck]

To Khorne

A good RP community has never been around that has had strict rules restraining its community. You can't force people to not do something. People will hoard if they want to. Providing a regime of rules makes the server look unattractive. Flags for all SRP players that spawn them with default guns will destroy the economy. The whole idea of gear progression shouldn't be there if we just make it so bullets do what they do...Usually kill or disable. There should be no reason in a RP a makarov gets laughed at. It can do as much damage as a gun of the same caliber.

This makes it so guns mostly become somewhat of an aesthetic, or a level of professionalism. But of course, better quality guns do operate better. I think that should be the focus on gear. Not new items and models, but tiers of quality. For example, in Dark Heresy, a good craftsmanship rifle will do much better than an average one in a combat scenario. Perhaps the AK you spawn with is of mediocre quality. The only reason you'd buy another gun is for the quality to be better, or for a different combat situation ( DMR, or shotgun for long/close range ).

EDIT: I know this isnt entirely on-topic but it has to do with the need/want of guns and gear.

That's what I was saying a few pages ago: the differences between guns shouldn't be so vast. Maybe the top end G36 is minimally more accurate than the AK74 but not such a huge disparity that if you go into a gunfight with an AK74 you'll be uncompetitive.

[Lent23]

What if you dropped a copy of your weapon and you got your weapon back into your inventory when you died?

[Gonztah]

What if you dropped a copy of your weapon and you got your weapon back into your inventory when you died?

Ridiculous inflation in 4 days.

[Paintcheck]

Yeah there'd be that same problem of no way for goods to leave the economy, only for them to enter.

[StickyWicket]

Yeah there'd be that same problem of no way for goods to leave the economy, only for them to enter.

Yep, that's why you make it so stalkers don't have a black hole to put a ton of guns into so they actually have a reason to sell them to traders that cash them in.

[Paintcheck]

That leads to inflation because you still have money going to pay the players for turning guns in though limited storage space would stop one person from walking through the aftermath of a fight picking up every single gun so in that sense it would be an improvement.

Bandits that could actually operate without what Jake said a page ago would be the simplest solution, especially if they were an admin-run faction that literally took the stolen goods and just poofed them out of existence to keep the inflation down. But you'd probably still have the witch hunt after them because players hate losing their gear. Which is why inflation is a problem in the first place because every attempt to get goods and money out of the economy ends in players crying.

[Lent23]

If guns duplicate on death, everybody wins. You win a new gun for killing the person, and the person isn't losing out because they get to keep their gun. It's not like there's not tons of ways to dupe weapons that are equally as detectable.

[Paintcheck]

That only works if traders no longer let players cash in or else 2 people are going to go to a corner of the map and kill each other 50 times and collect guns to haul to the trader. Someone might find an exploit to dupe stuff when the script launches but it seems to me to be a bad idea to have duplication coded in the script itself. You're risking "Maybe someone will figure out duping" vs. "Everyone has the means to dupe available to them from the get go".

I'd rather take the chance.

[jaik]

People that haven't been here since the early CakeScript days, here's how simple the respawn with weapons works: If you're flagged as a part of a major faction, then you spawn with the swep. If you died, you dropped it in item form and respawned with the swep again. This worked and we never had the hyperinflations you're all assuming. The part of the playerbase that knew how to roleplay didn't reduce itself to zero because they didn't need to worry about items as much as they would like to. This isn't the case anymore. Stop worrying about regulating and tightening the rules, instead focus on roleplay more.

[Paintcheck]

People that haven't been here since the early CakeScript days, here's how simple the respawn with weapons works: If you're flagged as a part of a major faction, then you spawn with the swep. If you died, you dropped it in item form and respawned with the swep again. This worked and we never had the hyperinflations you're all assuming. The part of the playerbase that knew how to roleplay didn't reduce itself to zero because they didn't need to worry about items as much as they would like to. This isn't the case anymore. Stop worrying about regulating and tightening the rules, instead focus on roleplay more.

Cakescript had the advantage of its wonky save system wherein people would lose their whole inventories periodically. That cut down on the number of guns in the wild, I personally went through at least 50 or 60 LR300s when I joined Freedom due to inventory saving only working some part of the time. Which had the added benefit of making people care a lot less about gear because you'd lose your shit logging on and just be like "Oh well, I got a flag weapon". Or the admins would spawn you a new gun.

People in cakescript were also far less gear hungry so having guns didn't matter as much. Most people just stuck with their starting flag weapon (although a big part of that was the inventory/world script issues that meant buying another gun was no guarantee of having it later). Cakescript also didn't save ammo so there was a money sink in that regard (though it did mean most people walked around with empty guns until an STK fight happened...which had the added benefit of forcing people to /me roleplay because they couldn't just pewpew someone with their deathlaser G36).

[StickyWicket]

That leads to inflation because you still have money going to pay the players for turning guns

That would be true if cashing in a weapon gave you it's full worth. When you cash in a weapon you only get back 50% of the cost it takes to actually buy the weapon from the trader menu in the first place. Unless admins spawn a shit ton of free guns, cashing in guns shouldn't lead to inflation.


EDIT: Forgot to touch up on the second paragraph of your post. Since STALKERs are willing to cash in their guns, it's a nice alternative to get rid of inflation without just taking people's shit away. This way, everyone is happy.

[Lent23]

Hi, I'm $20 donator. I can make a character and drop the weapon, before picking it up on another character.
Hi, I'm a Stalker. I can die and drop my weapon, then pick it up again.

Both are equally able to detect. I don't see the difference between them.

[StickyWicket]

Hi, I'm $20 donator. I can make a character and drop the weapon, before picking it up on another character.
Hi, I'm a Stalker. I can die and drop my weapon, then pick it up again.

Both are equally able to detect. I don't see the difference between them.

I want to call you something very improper that will make me look bad, but I'd rather do this:


1) No one's going to pay twenty bucks so they can dupe AKS-74Us.
2) Creating multiple characters one after another takes more time than you think.
3) It doesn't take an admin to look on the score board and see that your creating characters called "AadsaFDf dsad" to tell that your duping.
4) There aren't as many donators that are willing to break the rules compared to literally every single person that joins SRP. This would definitly increase if word got out that there's an RP script where DUPING IS CODED INTO IT!


Think this one through before you keep on supporting it, Lent. It breaks more than it could (potentially) fix, and no one seems to agree that it's a good idea.

[Tom]

OMG WHO THE HELL CARES!

Seriously I can kinda maybe see why donators dropping weapons may be bad, but I still don't understand how adding more variety (more sweps) is really detrimental to SRPs RP setting/canon

[jaik]

Cakescript had the advantage of its wonky save system wherein people would lose their whole inventories periodically. That cut down on the number of guns in the wild, I personally went through at least 50 or 60 LR300s when I joined Freedom due to inventory saving only working some part of the time. Which had the added benefit of making people care a lot less about gear because you'd lose your shit logging on and just be like "Oh well, I got a flag weapon". Or the admins would spawn you a new gun.

Oh yeah, the worldspawn, maybe we need to put this 'accidentally' in for the extra-rich?
ps: it's a joke

People in cakescript were also far less gear hungry so having guns didn't matter as much. Most people just stuck with their starting flag weapon (although a big part of that was the inventory/world script issues that meant buying another gun was no guarantee of having it later). Cakescript also didn't save ammo so there was a money sink in that regard (though it did mean most people walked around with empty guns until an STK fight happened...which had the added benefit of forcing people to /me roleplay because they couldn't just pewpew someone with their deathlaser G36).

I'm not sure about less gear hungry in general but I know for sure that we had a playerbase that actually knew how to roleplay and guess where is it now?(hint:they didn't quit gmod)
The ammo works slightly with most swep bases(unlike the real cs), you see, most of them give you about 300-999 bullets to start with and in CakeScript there was no way to see how much you spawned with, but it was a LOT. I don't remember exactly when did we start using ammo boxes or if we ever did until Nexus/WorldScript.
Although now that I think of it, I remember buying ammo back then as well. I think ammo was given to flagged people only.

Hi, I'm $20 donator. I can make a character and drop the weapon, before picking it up on another character.
Hi, I'm a Stalker. I can die and drop my weapon, then pick it up again.
Both are equally able to detect. I don't see the difference between them.

I have no idea what is your spergbrain even trying to connect now. We had this system for 5 years and we're not moving away from our donation system that works, while at the same time we're not being as greedy as the people we compete with.

[Paintcheck]

The flags got a few hundred rounds if memory serves I think loners had to buy ammo because I remember buying it as well.

The point is when gear is made less valuable because you aren't sure if you will have it or not people show up for the RP and not the gear. Also having balanced guns would mean gearwhores would be able to do whatever they wanted without unbalancing anything since their precious G36 wouldn't be that much better than the "common" guns like the AK74. But I am tired of repeating that point and I think most agree with that.

[Lent23]

My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)

[nKe]

@Lent You got carried
I took part in every event and NEVER ran for gear instead of leaving wounded people die (coughcough Headcrab's RP)
So my inventory was like this:
AN94
Makarov
2 boxes of ammo for both of em
No suit at all
3k rubles
arti detector

I aint even mad.

[jaik]

My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)

And your point is?

[Knife_cz]

My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)

And your point is?

I wanted to ask the same.
Why are you so fast Jake, why?

[Lent23]

My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)

And your point is?

It's easy to hoard gear. This was my inventory before Adam Chronovich was PK'd, all of this was then taken away by Goose and he refused to give it back when I was unPK'd. If people can do something, they will, so don't even try to stop them. This inventory took like three months of faction management and smooth talking traders to get, so this is one extreme, but the safebox was big enough to hold three high end suits.