You saw the title. Keep it civil, or I'll devour your essence.
Maybe very small paychecks for normal people and donators? Donators would get 10 more rubles per paycheck per level of donator. This would solve the people getting really rich in a short amount of time and it would let people who don't get jobs some money. The paycheck counter could be as long as it was before the server went down too. I'll probably get called an idiot or something for saying my opinion though.
Make people work for money.
Either get dedicated people to funnel money into the economy with jobs
Or alternatively make NPCs that give simple kill/fetch quests
A question to ask, can one simulate an economy inside a small map, with a few dozen people that change every week or so?
And if I wanted to, I bet I could poke holes through everyone's idea all day long if I wanted. I do it to my own ideas all the time.
You're gonna need to find some way to simulate an economy, without actually having one. Have it for show, but nothing more.
Quote from: Tom on 17-11-2012
Make people work for money.
Either get dedicated people to funnel money into the economy with jobs
Or alternatively make NPCs that give simple kill/fetch quests
If this were to happen there should be a cooldown on the jobs so people wouldn't just run there, fetch the item and run back.
1. Everyone starts at zero, even traders
2. Everyone paycheck whore because there's no other source of income other than admin made events because traders and faction leaders/members have to paycheck whore too to be able to make jobs for stalkers.
Double the paychecks for faction members and traders, remove stalkers paychecks.
Now we have jobs, which leads to more RP.
And RP is what we'r after here, mh?
Quote from: Nik3 on 18-11-2012
1. Everyone starts at zero, even traders
2. Everyone paycheck whore because there's no other source of income other than admin made events because traders and faction leaders/members have to paycheck whore too to be able to make jobs for stalkers.
Double the paychecks for faction members and traders, remove stalkers paychecks.
Now we have jobs, which leads to more RP.
And RP is what we'r after here, mh?
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.operatorchan.org%2Ft%2Fsrc%2F135205170824.jpg&hash=651d3b835ef5899be167a78feff96069c846a052)
Quote from: Nik3 on 18-11-2012
1. Everyone starts at zero, even traders
2. Everyone paycheck whore because there's no other source of income other than admin made events because traders and faction leaders/members have to paycheck whore too to be able to make jobs for stalkers.
Double the paychecks for faction members and traders, remove stalkers paychecks.
Now we have jobs, which leads to more RP.
And RP is what we'r after here, mh?
Seems like a good idea, so long as jobs are made. This may require a bit of admin help though to make the jobs interesting.
Quote from: Nik3 on 18-11-2012
1. Everyone starts at zero, even traders
2. Everyone paycheck whore because there's no other source of income other than admin made events because traders and faction leaders/members have to paycheck whore too to be able to make jobs for stalkers.
Double the paychecks for faction members and traders, remove stalkers paychecks.
Now we have jobs, which leads to more RP.
And RP is what we'r after here, mh?
implying we would have active traders
Ecologists need a high paycheck. Last time we had Ecologists they didn't even have money due to their inactive leader telling them to give him the money (then not doing anything with it afterwards, which was another reason for our economical clusterfuck).
Quote from: Nik3 on 18-11-2012
1. Everyone starts at zero, even traders
2. Everyone paycheck whore because there's no other source of income other than admin made events because traders and faction leaders/members have to paycheck whore too to be able to make jobs for stalkers.
Double the paychecks for faction members and traders, remove stalkers paychecks.
Now we have jobs, which leads to more RP.
And RP is what we'r after here, mh?
We did do that when I was a scrub, all it did was make it so everyone wanted to join a faction.
Increase faction paychecks, and whatever faction I'm in after SRP comes up, I'll create jobs with all the money I get. I'm doing my part, you guys can too.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Increase faction paychecks, and whatever faction I'm in after SRP comes up, I'll create jobs with all the money I get. I'm doing my part, you guys can too.
How is 300 not enough.
Really just
ugh
Quote from: knife_cz on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Increase faction paychecks, and whatever faction I'm in after SRP comes up, I'll create jobs with all the money I get. I'm doing my part, you guys can too.
How is 300 not enough.
Really just
ugh
Unlimited amount of money leads to:
- Factions having equipment based upon an equipment cap
- Factions will fight without fear of losing their equipment
- Factions could create tons of jobs and help Stalkers
Stalker clans like Freedom and Duty literally had armories. Freedom had an armory with tons of rifles and
grenade launchers inside
(Shadow of Chernobyl). Imagine what Duty had in their armory.
^Or have the tier-system I was talking about in some of the threads before.
Basically:
Have weapon and armor "tiers" for factions.
Ie. Purchasing better armor for all infantrymen costs 500K, next tier would cost 1m etc. Same with weapons.
Faction leader could also spend all the faction's moneys to buy a shiny exoskeleton for himself if he chooses to do so, but... Yeah.
When some of the tiers are unlocked, the faction will get an unlimited amount of the gear they unlocked. (Admins make sure the system is not abused, ofc).
When faction war happens, the winner gets a reward (discount towards next tier, or just money for faction).
Losing a faction war still matters since the winner gets a reward and a step closer to the next possible tier, but the losing side doesnt lose all of its gear.
No. We don't need to complicate things.
Giving faction starter money and making rank-specific equipment will work better Nik3.
Quote from: lolKieck on 18-11-2012
No. We don't need to complicate things.
Giving faction starter money and making rank-specific equipment will work better Nik3.
Rank specific weapons would be better. If you get promoted, you get a better gun, so do better. Have them spawn with a set of gear, if they die and spawn again, their inventory gets set back to the basic. Lock their inventories too, since they won't have any use for other items, other than med kits perhaps.
And there should be like 3 flags per faction, basic, officer, and leader. They get a different paycheck and this can allow faction members to of any rank to make simplitic missions. Of course a rookie's mission would have a low reward, while a mission from a leader would have bigger pay.
Perhaps officer and leader should have flags to spawn certain things like NPCs and use of /event. These leaders have to be trusted enough, since they became a leader somehow. It could still be abuse, like duuring a fight.
Lastly, finish the artifact spawn system or somehing, and if can be, an NPC spawn for low level NPCs. NPCs that can drop simple items that can be self cashed by a player for a bit of extra side pay during missions.
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
Quote from: lolKieck on 18-11-2012
No. We don't need to complicate things.
Giving faction starter money and making rank-specific equipment will work better Nik3.
-shnip- Lock their inventories too, since they won't have any use for other items, other than med kits perhaps.
-shnip-
Perhaps officer and leader should have flags to spawn certain things like NPCs and use of /event. These leaders have to be trusted enough, since they became a leader somehow. It could still be abuse, like duuring a fight.
-shnip-
Locking the inventories so characters cant use their favored weapon? Besides, that just makes it everything more complicated
NPCs shouldn't be spawned in fights. They are way to....mentally broken, and I'd like to see us get away from the use of NPCs.
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
Quote from: lolKieck on 18-11-2012
No. We don't need to complicate things.
Giving faction starter money and making rank-specific equipment will work better Nik3.
Rank specific weapons would be better. If you get promoted, you get a better gun, so do better. Have them spawn with a set of gear, if they die and spawn again, their inventory gets set back to the basic. Lock their inventories too, since they won't have any use for other items, other than med kits perhaps.
What kind of weapon you have shouldn't be rank specific, but rather what you're specialized in. This isn't an mmo.
First, Spartans, you read what I said wrong, they'd be spawned for missions from factions. But if a said factioneer was in a facction fight, they could potentially abuse it.
And Otto, how does locking weapons make it an MMO? Most I've played allow people to use anything at their level. And Factioneers don't use their favorite weapons, they should use the things issued to them. Freedom might allow it, but the other factions would to not.
We don't want faction players to care about guns and gear. In any way. They can still describe their gun s how they want. Or they can do a kick ass job is and get promoted. And as I recall, most of the leaders confiscated guns that didn't fit ranks or faction.
Again, don't need to have factions care about gear or guns, don't give them the abililty or need to use cash. They can make a loner and do that shit. Factioneers should be there for their factions, not themselves.
So don't waste time arguing that they should be allowed, as they shouldn't be allowed at all.
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
First, Spartans, you read what I said wrong, they'd be spawned for missions from factions. But if a said factioneer was in a facction fight, they could potentially abuse it.
And Otto, how does locking weapons make it an MMO? Most I've played allow people to use anything at their level. And Factioneers don't use their favorite weapons, they should use the things issued to them. Freedom might allow it, but the other factions would to not.
We don't want faction players to care about guns and gear. In any way. They can still describe their gun s how they want. Or they can do a kick ass job is and get promoted. And as I recall, most of the leaders confiscated guns that didn't fit ranks or faction.
Again, don't need to have factions care about gear or guns, don't give them the abililty or need to use cash. They can make a loner and do that shit. Factioneers should be there for their factions, not themselves.
So don't waste time arguing that they should be allowed, as they shouldn't be allowed at all.
How about specialisations like marksmen or assault soldiers with shotguns? If the weapons are locked to rank there couldn't be any of those. And I think faction leaders and COs could use whatever guns they want. Okay perhaps not Military but Duty and Freedom.
Let's make SRP have an emphasis on RPG elements. That will surely work and won't harm RPing, right?
Khorn, if the faction leader is at least semi-active and is able to hoard paychecks to buy weapons for his soldiers, at one point he can give them spare weapons and ammo to use if they have been lost (and they won't be if GR will be reintroduced). By rank-specific equipment I have meant weapons and suits. Besides, locking factioneer inventory and making them flag-dependant limits the flexibility of the faction armament (especially bad when their locked weapons can't even hit anything) and, in my opinion, we don't have to make things more complex than they already are. Make the ability of doing /event a flag and that's it.
I was later rethinking the idea of class flags for factions, as said above. And kieck, a leader of a faction hoarding paychecks wouldn't help them if they couldn't equip random guns and shit. Their paychecks would be only useful for giving to people who do dirty work for them. And by dirty work, I mean anything from assassination to doing laundry for the local fat ass factioneer.
We shouldn't encourage faction players to hoard money for themselves. If they have no use for it, then they may be willing to drop a few hundred for a local mission.
And of course, you could always adjust the guns so they don't spit bullets all over to make locked weapons a bit more balanced.
Rebalance guns so they can be rather fair, and somewhat realistic.
Introduce class flags with simple classes so ppeople can get their diversity on and still not be tempted to hoard items and money they find lying around.
Get rid of greed, you get rid of the hoarders. Down the line, people will be willing to share more and more, and perhaps eople will be more inclined to wander outside of bases and participate in fights more often instead of waiting for an opening to loot dead players.
Why can't we just go back to factions spawning with sweps on spawn, considering this system was working fairly well?
If it worked so well, than why did we have it removed?
Quote from: Jake on 18-11-2012
Why can't we just go back to factions spawning with sweps on spawn, considering this system was working fairly well?
Why not?
Because you suggested it and it would probably work out.
Quote from: Jake on 18-11-2012
Why can't we just go back to factions spawning with sweps on spawn, considering this system was working fairly well?
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
If it worked so well, than why did we have it removed?
At the time, we wanted weapons to be less common and more valuable. Plus, it was possible to dupe any suit or weapon simply by reflagging and dropping.
Quote from: Tom on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Nik3 on 18-11-2012
1. Everyone starts at zero, even traders
2. Everyone paycheck whore because there's no other source of income other than admin made events because traders and faction leaders/members have to paycheck whore too to be able to make jobs for stalkers.
Double the paychecks for faction members and traders, remove stalkers paychecks.
Now we have jobs, which leads to more RP.
And RP is what we'r after here, mh?
We did do that when I was a scrub, all it did was make it so everyone wanted to join a faction.
I was a trader for that time period and it really sucked because people were saying "ZOMG MAKE JOB MAKE JOB" and I'd have 500 rubles to make a job
for everyone on the entire server. Obviously that doesn't work.
Give traders and ecologists seed money and don't let them spend it on stuff for themselves. Or make traders and ecos led by admins (the ONLY factions that should be led by admins) so they can have money at will since those two factions are in charge of driving the economy.
Giving factions paychecks never leads to anything, they all just horde their money like dragons until they can buy everyone the best suits and guns and then they go stomp on the faction that didn't have as many active players doing the same thing. Saying no STALKERs get paychecks just means everyone will flock to the factions and I thought a lot of people wanted to see more STALKER activity, not less.
Also some less painful way of making jobs would help. It's incredibly annoying as a trader to run across the map, set up a job and do all this for 15-20 minutes only to announce you have a job and have some dude who was camping your job spot while you were setting it up immediately come rushing to you with your item. Giving traders observe mode helps with that but it still takes a lot longer to set up a job than it does to complete most jobs and that leads to a backlog of people screaming "JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS" and you being unable to keep up.
Quote from: Jake on 18-11-2012
Why can't we just go back to factions spawning with sweps on spawn, considering this system was working fairly well?
Please that. 100% that. It helps keep the factions more balanced when they don't need to worry about losing a firefight ad then basically losing the game because they won't be able to equip themselves again.
It would be good, but I still suggest faction members have rank or class locked weapons. If you do this, and give them a good pay check, they would have no need to hoard money as they would have little use to it all.
Factioneers should spawn with a set, and locked inventory of items. This will help them feel better about actually participating in fights and if they die, they can drop the guns and consumables. So, if a player, merc, or bandit kills/hunts a faction member, they can get an extra slice of payment.
-Faction have good paychecks.
-Factions have locked inventory so they can't change.(Maybe not even drop items)
--Hopefully locked inventory minimizes hoarding, as money would be useless.
-Faction drop guns and items on death. That way non-faction people get extra payment for doing their job or whatever they were doing
--Factions respawn with their locked inventory and return to base and continue.
---Faction paychecks have no use, so they use it as rewards for missions they make themselves. (Kill a person, hunt a mutant, find item, scout location, clean their lavatory)
---Faction will be able to produce a number of jobs, both meaningful and meaningless for any player to take part in.(They'd still need to limit their jobs per day. So good paychecks, but not so good that they can make a hundred jobs a day)
---Eco's and traders can have larger paychecks while Eco's have bigger(Again a limit to size so they don't over purchase). Allows more purchases of items.
Of course there are issues still very much present, but trying to brainstorm on this will help more than going back to what SRP had.
Locked gear lists or some other way to get to the next gear tier that isn't tied to rubles would be a good solution. That way people won't join factions just for the gear since as it was before being in a faction was the easiest way to get more stuff. Basically anyway to get stuff that doesn't rely on farmable rubles.
To use an example of most MMOs the way you get the super mega l33t gear isn't from normal currency, there's usually a separate currency tied to more difficult challenges to unlock that kind of stuff. A similar situation would prevent people from sitting on their asses pooling paychecks. Maybe have a point system the admins would keep track of (this is why admins shouldn't be faction heads) that allocates points based on creating jobs for STALKERs or fighting the other faction or some other, similar event that benefits the server as a whole rather than just factioners idling together for hours a day.
I'd just say, if a faction member does a good job at being part of his faction, through RP or advancement of the faction's ideology, their leader can promote them(Give them a flag for the next rank.)
Or if class based, a factioneer just applies/talks to their officers/leaders they'd like to specialize in another class. Sniper, medic, assault, demo, other?
New recruits just start as assault and once they get promoted, they choose class they'd like to join, if they get accepted, they get the flag and can make their new class faction member.
Each class is locked to a certain set of guns, items, and suit. I know we have a few variants of faction suits, and this would allow for a more customized character, without having a player become experts at everything and hoard rubles to get what they want.
Before we talk about flags for ranks, why doesn't somebody agree to make the flags? Silver won't.
If we wanted, we could wait for Silver to pop in and say if he actually is planning to change if his people want change.
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
If we wanted, we could wait for Silver to pop in and say if he actually is planning to change if his people want change.
If Silver wanted, he could have the server up right now.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
If we wanted, we could wait for Silver to pop in and say if he actually is planning to change if his people want change.
If Silver wanted, he could have the server up right now.
Isn't working on WH40K or something? I forget now and days.
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
If we wanted, we could wait for Silver to pop in and say if he actually is planning to change if his people want change.
If Silver wanted, he could have the server up right now.
Isn't working on WH40K or something? I forget now and days.
If playing Steam Games is Working on WH40k, then yeah.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
If we wanted, we could wait for Silver to pop in and say if he actually is planning to change if his people want change.
If Silver wanted, he could have the server up right now.
Isn't working on WH40K or something? I forget now and days.
If playing Steam Games is Working on WH40k, then yeah.
Someone sounds upset.
Why don't we just give traders a stipen of money each day?
And what would that solve? If we only gave money to traders each day, what would that solve?
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Before we talk about flags for ranks, why doesn't somebody agree to make the flags? Silver won't.
Why don't YOU make the so called 'flags' if you're so sure? god damn.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
If Silver wanted, he could have the server up right now.
If I wanted I could have 5 billions right now oh and my penis is 50 inches long.
Quote from: Jake on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Before we talk about flags for ranks, why doesn't somebody agree to make the flags? Silver won't.
Why don't YOU make the so called 'flags' if you're so sure? god damn.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
If Silver wanted, he could have the server up right now.
If I wanted I could have 5 billions right now oh and my penis is 50 inches long.
I wish HGN had like, or agree buttons like on FP
Quote from: Tom on 19-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
Before we talk about flags for ranks, why doesn't somebody agree to make the flags? Silver won't.
Why don't YOU make the so called 'flags' if you're so sure? god damn.
Quote from: Lent23 on 18-11-2012
If Silver wanted, he could have the server up right now.
If I wanted I could have 5 billions right now oh and my penis is 50 inches long.
I wish HGN had like, or agree buttons like on FP
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The old system of people spawning with guns did work at the time but now that I think about it, is a very dangerous thing. I'm almost positive we all remember quite clearly how guns were so plentiful back then as people would drop their spawned gun and hand it off to someone else, respawn and repeat. Unless you lock the gun to the point where you can't drop it, it won't work.
Admins and faction leaders should meet together and come up with a tier system for the factions themselves so that they don't all have a random assortment of high tier weaponry that they sat on their asses all day to collect. For example when I led military, pretty much everyone had the same gun unless they were specialized in something specific (sniper or CQB), or an officer (Weapon of choice within certain standards).
For example freedom could go like this:
First 2 stages: Aku's,
Next set of stages: Low tier Nato weaponry
Next set: Med tier NATO weaponry
Commanding set: High end NATO.
Sure we don't want to render a faction completely useless by forcing them to arms their people with Mp5's and mossbergs, but the leaders themselves need to set restrictions on weapons based on rank or specialization. No need for a seedy to run around with an LR or a G36. I did uniformed equipment for everyone and look how successful I was with it. If a player bitches about their equipment, you tell them tough shit and to deal with it.
There is a way to make weapons nondroppable. Remember that "Event AK" Silver had for admins to use if they were being MOnolith or something? Wouldn't drop on death. That would fix any duping problems.
Zombies got them too, even had enough ammo to last. Could supply infinite ammo, or limited ammo.
Also, I'd suggest going with a class system, not rank system. It allows more freedom to chose what you'd like to specialize in.
How about every fight a faction fights in is GR and the winning side just gets a reward from an admin, I don't see a need to "lock" the inventories. Have a tier system that goes by rank but is flexible and allows specialisations, easily done by faction leaders. Money could then be used for rewards, ammo and arming your "special" soldiers like snipers etc. And any extra guns a faction gets can be used for rewards or stashes.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 19-11-2012
There is a way to make weapons nondroppable. Remember that "Event AK" Silver had for admins to use if they were being MOnolith or something? Wouldn't drop on death. That would fix any duping problems.
If you remember cake script, military had AK74u's that didnt drop. I enjoyed that perk more then having one that did drop.
Quote from: Gonztah on 18-11-2012
Quote from: Khorn on 18-11-2012
First, Spartans, you read what I said wrong, they'd be spawned for missions from factions. But if a said factioneer was in a facction fight, they could potentially abuse it.
And Otto, how does locking weapons make it an MMO? Most I've played allow people to use anything at their level. And Factioneers don't use their favorite weapons, they should use the things issued to them. Freedom might allow it, but the other factions would to not.
We don't want faction players to care about guns and gear. In any way. They can still describe their gun s how they want. Or they can do a kick ass job is and get promoted. And as I recall, most of the leaders confiscated guns that didn't fit ranks or faction.
Again, don't need to have factions care about gear or guns, don't give them the abililty or need to use cash. They can make a loner and do that shit. Factioneers should be there for their factions, not themselves.
So don't waste time arguing that they should be allowed, as they shouldn't be allowed at all.
How about specialisations like marksmen or assault soldiers with shotguns? If the weapons are locked to rank there couldn't be any of those. And I think faction leaders and COs could use whatever guns they want. Okay perhaps not Military but Duty and Freedom.
I Think that the admins should have an agreed number and type of weapons a faction can get a hold of but the faction leaders should setup their own tier/rank system and distribute the weapons how they see fit. All other weapons they get in fights or in rp they should keep and can distribute as a reward for people who do well in their factions.
People here who support locking faction inventory and making flag-dependant equipment spawning should ask themselves one question. Is it really worth it to complicate it to such an extent?
The flag system and inventory locking ideas, as cool they sound, are a bad idea, but the inventory locking is good to an extent, but if introduced fully, it'd be a bad idea.
Flag system - can be easily replaced by faction leaders keeping track of their own equipment before and after a battle and gear return after the battle. Faction battles on the other hand would need to limit the amount of stalkers in the area of the battle to the minimum (I think we all know what always happened when stalkers fought in faction wars) and systematical tracking of factioneer equipment.
Inventory locking - should be a guiding principle, controlled by the means of posting equipment given to specified ranks (like, for example, Duty had some time ago). Fully locking (and I mean script-wise) would harm factions rather than solve anything, because of barely any flexibility given to leaders in case of specializations or in other words, snipers not being able to be given their SVD's because they can't pick or drop their weapons.
The only inventory locking we should do is, as I have had written earlier, specify the equipment on forums, and that's it.
What's easier to do: Manually keep track of every gun dropped in a fight and then manually returning it to the owner or having the script prevent the guns from dropping in the first place?
Yeah it's no contest. Manual gear return sucks especially if a gun glitches and falls through the map or gets launched due to Gmod's weird physics or whatever.
I support the idea that faction members don't drop weaponry on death but I do not like the idea of locking ones inventory so they can't drop or pick up anything ever.
Could just give factions a ton of money occasionally as an allowance and say "here's some money, fugetaboutit, just eat a fucking sandwich just buy shit"
Quote from: Tom on 19-11-2012
Could just give factions a ton of money occasionally as an allowance and say "here's some money, fugetaboutit, just eat a fucking sandwich just buy shit"
I'm all for monthly or weekly faction allowances.
For those mssing the idea, instead of just straight up locking inventory on factioneers, it 'd be a class specialization locked inventory.
Recruits get the basic gear and flag. They get promoted and choose a specialization. They are assigned a flag and the flag has them spawn with a set of items that fit their choice of class.
Like I said, assault, medic, demo, and sniper. Maybe a few more if needed, but each flag has a set gun and suit(I know their are already a few faction variants).
Ranks can be handed out like usual by just replacing the character's name.
People get their customization in factions while keeping to a simple and less reliant on players/admin system.
If we go back to doing GR with an admin watching to make sure it's all good, then it will go back to people bitching others out or lying about what they dropped, even if their was a list.
We shouldn't make admins become a server's babysitter. Admins are there to maintian the environment, not hold people's hands and wipe their asses.
Also, in case stalkers/merc/bandits take part in a fight with factions, they'd need to be on equal ground as factioneers when it comes to gear drop. I'd suggest each flag have a kabar and pistol locked to their inventory so even if they do die, they won't respawn fully unarmed every time they die. And factioneers need to drop something too, so non-factioneers can get something out of fighting while being equally able to lose something.
Last time we had the "Weekly or monthly allowance", no factions got money past the first pay. If you are going to do that system, actually go through with it.
>STALKER admin demanding other people do something an admin has to do.
Makes sense.
In all seriousness though the more automated the system is the better. The less you have to rely on admins to do "maintenance" tasks the more smoothly things will run.
I like the idea of factioneers starting with locked inventories and specific class gear. It entitles more of a teamwork spirit. Just because Pvt Rich Ass is a rich ass doesn't mean he should have a Groza. It goes the same way for Pvt. Poor Ass. Just because he's a poor ass doesn't mean should have a Makarov.
We need to use a Communistic type of reform for the factions. I don't care how much harder you work or how much more money you have than Private Poor Ass, you got the same stuff he does because it works better that way. We tried a Capitalism and it crashed and burned like a monkey piloting a jet filled with napalm towards a nuclear plant.
Also, maybe a trader NPC wouldn't hurt? For the sake of simple fetch/kill jobs, of course. He would offer a small variety of these, each on a scale of 1-5 of difficulty which matches a similar payout. Maybe not all in rubles and instead some in items. Only a number of these would be given out by said NPC(s) and those not selected would change each day.
Problem with that is the coding.
Presumably it is possible to do NPC hunt/kill missions because Gmod knows when something dies so you could make a function that kept track of how many NPC kills a certain player has and when he reaches the required for the mission it tells him to go back to the NPC or something but that will take considerably more work. On the plus side it would make it easier for traders.
I've never seen factioners buying guns for themselves, not in Duty atleast. We use what we're given. I also doubt that this would be the case with Military, don't know about Freedom.
From what I recall Freedom just kinda arms people with whatever they feel like arming their dudes with at the time (Freedom arms its troops not freedomers iirc) "It's a seedy, fugetaboutit just have a fuckin' LR"
The problem isn't factioneers buying expensive fucking weapons, its factions buying expensive weapons for their dudes.
I doubt SK would be willing to code his ass off trying to make factions have locked inventories and shit. The closest I'd bet we'd get is Factioneers spawning with guns.
What I still say, is that Factioneers drop their gun and consumable items. And simply respawn with a gun connected to their flag.
This would provide something of worth to Bandits/stalker/mercs hunting factioneers other than getting payment from the job they got.
If you could do that and keep factioneers from /dropping items and equipping other ones, it'd be nice.
Also, a note on automated system vs manned systems.
Automated is complex to set up. (Requires time to make and ensure works.)
Automated is easier to maintain.(If you made it, you should be able to know what's wrong if something occurred.)
Automated will do what you made it do. (It's made to what you wrote it to do. It will complete the goal is was made to do.)
Manned is easy to set up.(Get people to do the work.)
Manned is difficult to maintain.(People leave or fail to do what they are meant to do. Player quits/vacation/abuses and is removed.)
Manned will attempt to do what you want in the way they think is best.(People will go about completing the goal in the way they think is right. Some will use it to their advantage.)
An automated system may be a pain to set up, but in the long run it'd be easier to maintain with the lack of worry someone will cut corners and attempt to exploit. As exploits would be easier to patch on auto systems than a player manned system.
Everything you guys suggest, one of you finds a problem with it.
How bout we stop proposing and start compromising on issues.
I'd like to know what would the locking accomplish, other than needlessly limit factions. A list with what every rank is allowed to use and a semi active faction leader can accomplish this and not be nearly as restricting. If a faction member loses a gun you can buy a new one (300 rubles an hour is pretty good, also if factions get starting money that'll help too.) or just do GR. I mean it's not that hard for the leaders/admins to see what guns people had before they started, and having lists of standard equipment helps a lot. I can give a list of Duty standard equipment later if you'd like to see it.
Also there are bigger issues in the economy than faction inventories, like the lack of active traders, ecos that are piss poor etc.
(At this rate we're gonna need another thread about factions)
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
Also there are bigger issues in the economy than faction inventories, like the lack of active traders, ecos that are piss poor etc.
(At this rate we're gonna need another thread about factions)
I actually thought about that yesterday, about how little factions really have to do with the greater economy, most of the time from what I saw, Factions where kinda like micro economies within our pseudo economy that would usually keep to themselves and not really affect the rest of the economy unless of course they started interacting with stalkers on an economic level, like buying guns from them (Usually didn't since they had faction traders), giving jobs (rarely), or going after bandits or unruly assholes (That where removing guns from the economy), other than that it was almost as if Duty, Military, Freedom, and Monolith where their own economies.
The thing that ran the economy was the players that had nothing better to do than play every waking hour. They'd be the first to get armed, they'd be the first to arrive for jobs.
@SGT-Spartans; It's sorta the point to have a discussion, of course we won't find a perfect idea that everyone likes. But we continue to talk in order to come to the conclusion of what solves our issue best with less bitchy players.
Someone will remained pissed off in some way regardless of what we chose. We are here to find out which can solve our issues, while minimizing player bitching.
@Gonztah; We should not let factions have a need for money in any way. Even if they are a self contained economy in their base, players can still get greedy and hoard money and items they find. If we make it so they have no use, chances are, they will have a low desire to acquire every item they spot in front of them.
And how does locking inventory lead to a limited faction? Factioneers don't need anything but their basic guns and suits. Military, Monolith, and Duty for one would have issues with people going about with non-standard issued weapons. Basically, majority of factions in game would force their troops to use what they wanted.
Freedom may be more inclined to let their people use what they want, but it would be up to the leader if a member could do or use what they want. And I'm sure they wouldn't allow to much variation. Considering they use NATO weapons preferably.
But to keep a form of customization, make a class based locked inventory. You get to be specialized while still looking and using different equipment. Equipment that still fits with their faction's ideals.
Even the stalker wikia states ranks and gear associated to that rank.
We also should get away from Gear Return, as it is a reason why people don't care to interact with other people in fights. In the actual game, if you killed an NPC, you'd get their inventory and be able to sell it off. If the items you found were magically taken away(Leaving maybe one gun, or money), wouldn't that be boring?
Sort of an example: P1-"So, we raided this small Loner base and all we got was this single lousy AK47"
P2-"Not bad, all I got was 500 rubles and some meds. Though, I spent about 600 rubles worth of ammo."
P1-"Yea, I wasted probably more money putting this together, too bad the Zone God took all the worthwhile loot."
I think all flags should have a locked kabar/knife and a basic pistol so as to keep people still somewhat armed after they die and lose their main gun/items. This would allow for them to be on almost an equal level with factions and have actual battles be fruitful for once for the winning group.
And lastly, seriously, stop relying on the hopes of having the perfect admin team that will be their to constantly watch your every move and make sure your life in the zone is well taken care of. Admins shouldn't have to supervise every fight in SRP. They should be there to maintain the server and deal with larger issues that can't be fixed by players. Such as unruly players, not someone who bested you at a fight and took your gun.
Again, stop relying on admins to do everything. They shouldn't have such a reliance on them, every time someone wants and event, fight or job.
Making a shit ton of flags for ranks and specializations would make factions even more admin dependant.
Factioners rarely find any items to hoard, mostly from faction battles when they aren't GR, some money from events etc. And since factions rarely economically interact with stalkers why would the hoarding matter, if we're talking paycheck hoarding then yeah, doesn't matter. Also if stalkers attack a faction they deserve to get their asses kicked most of the time. Factions are SUPPOSED to be better equipped than the rest of the stalkers. Faction hoarding isnt THAT big a problem for the server you make it to be.
I still see no real point to lock faction member inventories, seriously I can't see what this would accomplish.
Gear return is annoying yeah, if people would get basic weapons after dying it would be better.
Your ideas require a lot of work from Silver, and then constant attention from the admin team. Someone gets promoted/demoted, new flags must be given. Someone specializes in something, new flags and so on. When now, the faction leader can deal with that very easily.
People are really bad at noticing the difference between short term work and long term work.
Making flags, editing the gun stats, all of that takes very very very very very little time. Making a flag isn't coding an NPC trading system. Editing a guns stat isn't programming a new script. All you people clinging to this idea of "ANYTHING RELATING TO THE SCRIPT IS TOO MUCH WORK" need to exam what swep code and flag code actually looks like. Unless Clockwork is radically different from previous scripts (which I doubt since they probably have built it so people can add guns/classes fairly easily since that is a mainstay of RP gamemodes), doing things like that would take maybe a few hours before server launch but would save dozens of hours of frustration down the line.
Setting a flag to someone is also painless. It's one command (again assuming clockwork works like EVERY OTHER RP SCRIPT EVER) that an admin types ONCE and then never has to worry about again. How does that take "constant attention from the admin team" when you're advocating faction hording?
Faction hording is hugely destructive. The first thing it does is ensure that everyone tries to be in a faction and no one stays as a STALKER because the factions are the easiest way to get gear. The second thing it does is ensure that the better geared factions attract all the players which means the second one faction falls behind in the gear race, they are done. If Duty has all the guns and active players no one is going to join Freedom and Freedomers aren't going to want to play on their Freedom characters because Duty will shit on them with their horded gear. The more balanced you can keep the STALKERS and the factions the better for the overall activity
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
I support factioneers spawning with some sort of gun as part of their flag (like ak74m for every faction since they all use it)
What I don't support is locking thier inventories and restricting let's say... duty to ak74s ANs and grozas and restricting freedom to LRs Sigs and G36s via a flag system. It really limits customisation and being able to be modular with your faction.
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.
The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.
The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.
The same exact result comes from Gear Return?
Quote from: Lent23 on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.
The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.
The same exact result comes from Gear Return?
GR is not rewarding nor fun.
Quote from: Jake on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.
The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.
The same exact result comes from Gear Return?
GR is not rewarding nor fun.
But dying and getting your same AK-74u back is?
Quote from: Jake on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.
The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.
The same exact result comes from Gear Return?
GR is not rewarding nor fun.
Cool fights are.
Quote from: Lent23 on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.
The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.
The same exact result comes from Gear Return?
GR is not rewarding nor fun.
But dying and getting your same AK-74u back is?
It creates a rotation in the economy and yes, the solution of spawning with sweps is a compromise for many types of people:
1) The ones that wish the economy to go on.
2) Creates an opportunity for the faction to arm itself and perhaps use the looted gear as a reward in missions.
3) Don't wish to lose their entire faction budget just because of one battle.
and probably more.
The solution of not doing anything satisfies a lesser scope of the playerbase.
I've got nothing against a simple flag that makes you spawn with a gun after you die.
Quote from: Lent23 on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Gonztah on 20-11-2012
It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.
People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.
The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.
The same exact result comes from Gear Return?
Assuming you can get all the guns back from a gear return fight. Assuming someone doesn't minge loot and run off. Assuming no guns glitch through the map/otherwise end up being unreturnable. Assuming an admin is around to supervise the fight (which is time an admin needs to spend NOT setting up missions/caring for STALKERs who need stuff to do more than the factions do). Assuming a thousand other things that I'm sure others will think of.
You see where I'm going? Flags are set once and forget. Gear return is labor intensive after every. single. fight. Using flags also means the factions can fight
without admin supervision because they will get guns back if they lose. As it was before if no admin was on the factions would turtle in their base doing nothing because if they lost gear in a fight they had no guarantee of getting back. Even when an admin
was on, if someone mingelooted a gun most of the admins couldn't spawn a new one to replace it so the person who lost the gun was shit out of luck until another admin came on who could.
There's intelligent reservations to be had about scripting projects (IE people asking for NPCs giving random missions, as great as that would be that is way beyond the realm of feasibility with the resources HGN currently has) and then there's stuff like flags that are so simple it's barely even coding. I've said this about 50 times in this thread but I'll keep saying it until people stop going "BUT IT TAKES TOO LONG TO SCRIPT": Flags are labor intensive
once before the server comes out. Admin supervision is labor intensive
every day, all day, for every fight, for the life of the server. Being told that, why do people still have reservations about factioners spawning with gear based on flags with undroppable guns from the flags? It's basically fool proof. The factioners can war all they want because they won't bankrupt themselves on one battle, there won't be a huge influx of guns from people duping because the guns are undroppable, and there won't be minge looting again because the guns are undroppable. Surely all those advantages
far outweigh the 1 - 2 hours (if that) of extra coding time it would take to alleviate the whining, bitching, crying, and moaning that
always follows an stk fight in the current environment.
Granted all these arguments fail if Clockwork doesn't have any of the features I've been assuming but I find it hard to believe it doesn't. Even if it doesn't have "flags" it probably has some sort of similar mechanism that is just as easy.
Aaaand no one addresses my point at all.... hell yeah!
Quote from: Tom on 20-11-2012
Aaaand no one addresses my point at all.... hell yeah!
You mean keeping Duty to Warsaw guns and Freedom to NATO?
I still think a class flag system instead so people can still get diversities in factions without breaking any lore or canon.
If we allow them to use what they want, SRP will become less and less of a Stalker game, and more of a post-apocalyptic danger zone.
Quote from: Khorn on 20-11-2012
If we allow them to use what they want, SRP will become less and less of a Stalker game, and more of a post-apocalyptic danger zone.
When did this happen even?
Quote from: Khorn on 20-11-2012
If we allow them to use what they want, SRP will become less and less of a Stalker game, and more of a post-apocalyptic danger zone.
implying stalker's chernobyl isnt a post-apoc danger zone
I'm saying, it's a bad idea to allow factions to equip guns and gear that the game's factions wouldn't.
We wouldn't need to call ourself Stalker RP anymore if we couldn't even stick to a bit of canon.
Who says the factions would do this?
Well, people keep saying that factioneers should equip what they want. Which they shouldn't. Freedom is probably the only faction that would think of allowing troops to use something other than their basic items.
We could just do the class system so people can get weapons they want while still being relevant to their factions. I don't get what you all have wrong with that? People can apply to be a different class and use a different kit while still maintaining the same type of weaponry.
Quote from: Khorn on 20-11-2012
I'm saying, it's a bad idea to allow factions to equip guns and gear that the game's factions wouldn't.
We wouldn't need to call ourself Stalker RP anymore if we couldn't even stick to a bit of canon.
That's true to an extent but don't go down the path Dug did that one time when he blamed all of SRP's problems on mercenaries' inability to use only LR300s and bandits wearing stuff other than trench coats.
To an extent faction gear should stick close to the game but saying the canon goes to hell because a Dutyer is using an MP5 instead of an AKS74U is...well there are far more egregious canon issues that I would fix before worrying about if Joe Freedomer has the right kind of gun.
Quote from: Khorn on 20-11-2012
Well, people keep saying that factioneers should equip what they want. Which they shouldn't. Freedom is probably the only faction that would think of allowing troops to use something other than their basic items.
We could just do the class system so people can get weapons they want while still being relevant to their factions. I don't get what you all have wrong with that? People can apply to be a different class and use a different kit while still maintaining the same type of weaponry.
What they want, as in if a high ranking faction member wants to use an AKm instead of a Groza. Not that Duty suddenly would start arming everyone with G36s and LRs. Making a class system like that is just pointless, although having faction members spawn with an AKm that you can't drop but can destroy to get it out of your inventory would be nice though. It's a decent gun and most factions in the game use it.
The Factions in the actual game tended to stick to the guns they spawned with.
And why would making a class system be pointless? It be more accurate to the game. It'd cut out the need for money if you are part of a faction.
Again, the point of making a class system is to kill off any and all reasons to keep money to yourself. We should not let money have any use to faction members as they would technically be supplied with what they require by their own faction. They should be set up on the get go.
So far they've been pretty much set up on the go, the only use faction members have had for money is to buy ammo when there's nobody around to give it to you, that's it. The reason people keep money is so that when they leave they've usually got it in their inventory, 300 rubles an hour is a huge improvement on the normal 90.
What the FUCK guy? When did I say "DOOD LETZ LET DOOTY HAFE FN2000s and FREEDUMB HAFE VALs :D:D:D:D"
Cause I didn't
THe problem with locking inventories and making a class system based on flags would be the problem of having to sift through the whole fucking alphabet to find the right weapon (Assuming CW uses the same flag scheme as Nexus which uses the alphabet which was a pain in the ass anyway for finding trader flags and such) if you use whitelists (Assuming CW is like Nexus) you'd have the problem of having a huge list to look through, which quite frankly might be too big for smaller screens to fit (I don't remember Nexus's whitelist menu having a scrolling feature and typing it is kinda a pain cause you have to type everything 100% correctly as its listed in the script or shit would fuck up.) you'd also have the problem of seeing on the menu a fangled mess of a ton of different "Duty (CLASS HERE)"
The way you're proposition would look on a whitelist would look like this
STALKER
Exp Bandit
Vet Bandit
Master bandit
Exp Stalker
Vet Stalker
Master stalker
Exp Merc
Vet merc
Master merc
Bloodsucker
Bloodsucker variant
Controller
Dog
Abyss
Snork
Poltriegiest
Zombie Stalker
Freedom Recruit
Freedom Rifleman
Freedom Marksman
Freedom Assualt
Freedom Officer
Freedom Scout
Freedom Commander
Duty Recruit
Duty Rifleman
Duty Marksman
Duty Scout
Duty Assualt
Duty Special Soldier
Duty Officer
Duty Commander
Monolith Recruit
Monolith Rifleman
Monolith Marksman
Monolith Scout
Monolith Special soldier
Monolith Assualt
Monolith officer
Monolith Commander
Military Recruit
Military Rifleman
Military Special soldier
Military Marksman
Military Scout
Military Assualt
Military Officer
Military Commander
Don't know about you but that list is long as FUCK and would NOT fit on a screen of my size
Just make them all spawn with AK-74Ms, freedom used them, Duty used them, Monolith used them, and Military used them, just go "Here's a starter weapon and we gave your faction leader a ton of cash, fugetaboutit, Just eat a fucking sandwich"
I may just be tired and cranky from work after working with the dumbest motherfucker on the planet for 12 hours, so I apologize if I say anything assholish
What's the point of the NLR if Gear Return isn't automatically done?
@Rag; GR and NLR don't go hand in hand. You can still have NLR without needing to return gear. It'd happen before when people lost fights, had to drop their gun, and respawn as if nothing happened.
@Tom;
You do know, you made that list longer than it needs to be?
And have you seen the voice commands back in FRP? IT was a shit ton longer than that and a pain to go through to find a command.
STALKER
Bandit
Merc
Bloodsucker
Controller
Dog
Abyss
Snork
Poltriegiest
Zombie Stalker
Freedom Recruit
Freedom Sniper
Freedom Assault
Freedom Medic
Duty Recruit
Duty Sniper
Duty Assault
Duty Medic
Monolith Recruit
Monolith Assault
Monolith Sniper
Monolith Medic
Military Recruit
Military Assualt
Military Sniper
Military Scout
And you could go back to the older flag system where it was separated into sections related to a group. I recall it was in a window with a model of a soldier, you clicked on it and a list appeared with related flags.
Then you're limiting customization.
That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.
Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts
done
Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36
How is it limiting customization when factions are supposed to be limited? And again, why do factioneers need customization in any way? They don't at all, and never should have the need.
And the flag system was once implemented that way. But we can just do they same thing as before and have a pull down list. Or better, you can type it out like any other admin could.
Making guns like they were in real life won't solve anything. It may make guns more balanced, but if you give people the ability to use money, then they will hoard it. Not all people will, and not all will hoard consciously.
Factions should not have a need to spend money on anything. They don't need customization. Have a few choices in classes will be more than enough to satisfy people.
And to add affect Customization is not need at all for RP. Learn how to type and you can have all the bullshit customization you need.
Quote from: Khorn on 20-11-2012
How is it limiting customization when factions are supposed to be limited? And again, why do factioneers need customization in any way? They don't at all, and never should have the need.
And the flag system was once implemented that way. But we can just do they same thing as before and have a pull down list. Or better, you can type it out like any other admin could.
Making guns like they were in real life won't solve anything. It may make guns more balanced, but if you give people the ability to use money, then they will hoard it. Not all people will, and not all will hoard consciously.
Factions should not have a need to spend money on anything. They don't need customization. Have a few choices in classes will be more than enough to satisfy people.
And to add affect Customization is not need at all for RP. Learn how to type and you can have all the bullshit customization you need.
Factions aren't limited dickbutt. Freedom used more than just LR300s and SVUs, Duty used more than AK-74Ms and SVDs, Military used more than just AK-74Ms and SVDs, and Monolith used WAY more than 1 assault rifle and a sniper rifle. Also. . . I don't see what the problem is you're trying to solve if its not gear hoarding? Money hoarding? They're still gonna do it to get suits you crazy cat.
Also I think you meant "Is not at all needed* for RP"
Quote from: Tom on 20-11-2012
Then you're limiting customization.
That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.
Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts
done
Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36
Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.
Example:
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F1sy78&hash=609e92b5d8df160e96c300c96d847419d8d77cf0)
Quote from: Steven :D on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 20-11-2012
Then you're limiting customization.
That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.
Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts
done
Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36
Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.
Example:
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F1sy78&hash=609e92b5d8df160e96c300c96d847419d8d77cf0)
If you can still change the suit just make a kits with some sort of decent pistol that most people use in a faction and every gun that a faction uses, bam. My reservations are gone.
And if you can't change suits just make different combinations of guns and suits
That sounds great and all and if I knew it existed, I'd would have mentioned it.
And Tom, why would factioneers hoard money for suits if they were locked to a class?
If I knew a system existed where people could edit their flag/class whatever, I would have never bothered posting anything else in the thread.
I just don't want factions to have a need for money, or people will find ways to hoard.
Quote from: Khorn on 20-11-2012
That sounds great and all and if I knew it existed, I'd would have mentioned it.
And Tom, why would factioneers hoard money for suits if they were locked to a class?
If I knew a system existed where people could edit their flag/class whatever, I would have never bothered posting anything else in the thread.
I just don't want factions to have a need for money, or people will find ways to hoard.
Someone else explained to me that you wanted to lock the inventory to suits too which kinda sucks even worse imo. But now I don't care, because our argument is now meaningless due to what steven posted :P
Yay! :D
I did want to lock it, but if you can make it so people ar locked to a group of guns and gear, I'd be fine with that.
I just don't think factioneers should have a need to spend money, not on themselves or their factions. Since they are funded by other means.
If Factions get pay checks, I'd hope they could use that money for paying non-factioneers for doing jobs. It be like having a lot of traders around, able to make simple and missions, but without the ability to buy and sell.
It would alleviate pressure on admins and traders.
Quote from: Steven :D on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 20-11-2012
Then you're limiting customization.
That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.
Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts
done
Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36
Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.
Example:
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F1sy78&hash=609e92b5d8df160e96c300c96d847419d8d77cf0)
This isn't guaranteed to work because there simply couldn't be enough letters in the alphabet to define all of the classes we would need. To be honest I don't understand why is a class system needed. Let the faction leaders manage their members themselves, just give them permanent basic weapons.
Locked Guns and Suits are fine, they get rid of the loner shark attack after a GR battle between factions. It spares money for the factions to make jobs for the bored stalkers. The rest of the inventory should be left open.
Yes I edited this and completely flopped my viewpoint.
Quote from: Jake on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Steven :D on 20-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 20-11-2012
Then you're limiting customization.
That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.
Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts
done
Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36
Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.
Example:
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpuu.sh%2F1sy78&hash=609e92b5d8df160e96c300c96d847419d8d77cf0)
This isn't guaranteed to work because there simply couldn't be enough letters in the alphabet to define all of the classes we would need. To be honest I don't understand why is a class system needed. Let the faction leaders manage their members themselves, just give them permanent basic weapons.
Doesn't a flag/letter just let you see more options in that menu Steven showed? One flag could show access to the Freedomer's list. Or something?
Why the hell would we need complicated class systems at all? Like Jake said, just make a flag that gives a basic weapon like the akm that can't be dropped. As long as SRP has money in it, some people would hoard it.
@Khorn
Yes
Quote from: Gonztah on 21-11-2012
Why the hell would we need complicated class systems at all? Like Jake said, just make a flag that gives a basic weapon like the akm that can't be dropped. As long as SRP has money in it, some people would hoard it.
Quote from: Gonztah on 21-11-2012
Why the hell would we need complicated class systems at all? Like Jake said, just make a flag that gives a basic weapon like the akm that can't be dropped. As long as SRP has money in it, some people would hoard it.
Yeah. And make sure it's not flagged as a primary weapon so in case of factioneers having another weapon (like shotgun for Assault soldiers) they could use it.
Also Khorn, since we have to be closest to the canon and the game LET'S JUST MAKE SRP A PRO QUICKSCOPE FPS HAVEN.
We're done with this discussion of locking faction inventories and using flags or a class system to sort out their kit.
Get back on topic.
Quote from: Ace of Hearts on 21-11-2012
We're done with this discussion of locking faction inventories and using flags or a class system to sort out their kit.
Get back on topic.
True story
Paychecks suck and we need a viable way to funnel money to Stalkers to survive, aside from the "Faction Class system" that we discussed, what else could we do?
Well, since that topic of discussion is over, I guess I'll leave.
Didn't know it wasn't on-topic. Thanks for pointing it out Ace.
Just a pro-hint, I was trying to work from the ground up to help the 'economy' instead of started at the top. To put it simple and related to the analogy I made earlier, I decided to start with a new foundation for the house, not the roof. But if you feel the need to start on top and work down, good luck.
I think I have found out a solution to the three major problems I see relating to items in SRP: Gear hoarding, fear of loosing gear, and inflation.
I propose we make guns cheap enough to be disposable (except guns like the SVD & G36) and make safeboxes smaller. I asked a few people that used to go on SRP, "What's the one thing you carried on your character that you feared loosing most?" They all said their rifle. No one want's to pay a quarter of the price of a sunrise for a mediocre weapon like the AK-74. But, even if they do decide to fork up all that dough for their rifle, they rarely want to use it since it might mean they'll just die and loose all the money that they invested in it. It's simple, balance out the desire to fight and RP with the fear of loosing their gear.
I know what you're thinking, if we made guns cheap, they would be everywhere More guns will lead to inflation, and they will loose value and people will just give them away. Well, that's were my second part of the solution comes in, smaller safeboxes. If more people get into fights and survive, than they will be picking up a lot of guns. In SRP, this usually means safeboxing it till you die and need another gun. But, if safeboxes could only hold a very limited amount of guns, that means that stalkers will just sell their guns to traders for a profit! And of course, the trader will than eat the gun and poop out a sum of rubles (basically, cashing in). This removes the surplus of guns from the economy, and gets rid of inflation since the traders cash the gun in for half of what it cost to make it. And what about gear hoarding? Well, with smaller safeboxes comes less wiggle room to pack up all your items into your ass.
I've thought this over a couple of times and can't seem to find anything wrong with this solution. But, please, if you find something that you feel you need to speak up on than do so!
And what happens when you can't scrape enough money up after death to pick up another gun under your model?
That's the advantage of having a default gun saved as a flag.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 24-11-2012
And what happens when you can't scrape enough money up after death to pick up another gun under your model?
That's the advantage of having a default gun saved as a flag.
Maybe flags would be nice for factions, but for everyone else it limits things too much and removes guns from the economy entirely. If I had to answer the question of what people should do when they have no money to get a gun, I would say rely on paychecks. Or beg, or work for people in a way that doesn't require a gun, do some passive. But, having absolutely no money to buy a decent weapon should rarely happen since prices will be reduced.
If guns were cheaper, people would be more willing to go out. But even with cheap guns, some dedicated folks will still try to hoard all their cash in order to buy exos. Players that want to hoard will wait to grab as many guns as they can after fights, and try to sell them off. It won't fully solve the issues with hoarders, the only way really to remove hoarding would to be cutting out gear/inventory all together.
It'd feel a bit like how WarZ handles their gear. You can get guns somewhat easily, but another player can take your shit easy. But in SRP, taking guns by force leads to being a bandit, being a bandit leads to a bounty, people hunt bandit for bounty. Bounty gives player money which in turn they can use.
Make inventory and Safe boxes smaller, more realistic. Someone's backpack should at most carry 2 suits/rifles. Or 1 suit/rifle a few pistols. Not to mention all the other bits. Safe boxes should only have room for 4 suits/rifles and a couple of pistols. And the other items.
I'm still worried about factions hoarding money or items, since they'd want to arm themselves with the best they can get. Making guns cheap will lead to maybe more fights, but they'd begin to act like bums after each fight. Grabbing what they can and running away to sell it.
If factions had no use for money, they could use it to reward those players that lost all their items and money for doing passive RP jobs.
People are going to hoard shit, no matter what. Unless you make SRP a text based RP (and even then some might find a way to make a text based RP into a gear gathering scenario) I don't think there is any way to solve it.
Quote from: Khorn on 24-11-2012
If guns were cheaper, people would be more willing to go out. But even with cheap guns, some dedicated folks will still try to hoard all their cash in order to buy exos. Players that want to hoard will wait to grab as many guns as they can after fights, and try to sell them off. It won't fully solve the issues with hoarders, the only way really to remove hoarding would to be cutting out gear/inventory all together.
It'd feel a bit like how WarZ handles their gear. You can get guns somewhat easily, but another player can take your shit easy. But in SRP, taking guns by force leads to being a bandit, being a bandit leads to a bounty, people hunt bandit for bounty. Bounty gives player money which in turn they can use.
This post honestly makes little sense to me, so I'm just going to guess at what you are trying to say.
Since guns are cheap, and suits are still expensive, it would take years of minge-looting to get enough money for an exoskeleton. You can't remove hoarding entirely, you can only make it hard and a waste of time, as proposed by my idea. You might as well just hunt for artifacts, or whatever it is that will make more money faster.
That second paragraph gives me a headache. Out of all the things you could of compared my solution to, you chose WarZ... Anyway, you got it right that players can get guns more easily, but that doesn't at all mean that people can kill you more easily. Guns in SRP were common, just very precious. And, unlike WarZ, a majority of people don't take guns by force. To be honest, I don't even know where you were going with this.
Thing is, if people can hoard, they will hoard. They will do what they can to make money as fast as they can. And we don't, or haven't had, a proper system for artifacts yet. So hunting them down would be even more difficult than simply hoarding.
As for the comparison. When I played WarZ, people got guns from shooting each other. That was basically mine, and a group of us that played, experiences. Every generally hunted others to get loot, instead of searching towns for it. The group I was with, and some of you were there, we got inventories filled with guns from killing other players. Either in self defense, or because we saw them with nice gear.
What I am saying about SRP, is if a player came along and saw a guy with a gun, he could shoot them. Take the gun. Be called a Bandit, and get hunted. Another player kills him and gets the bounty.
Basically, gunplay comes down to STK and people can shoot people for their guns, but in turn, the server will begin to hunt them down for the price on their head.
I dont get how a fancy warz game mechanic (which apparently works in warz probably cause there are no major factions and its also not an rp game) that could easily result in bad consequences would result in solving hoarding.
You already said it once Tom, ain't nothing gonna solve hoarding.
Unless you get rid of inventory and gear.
Now I once again have no clue as to what you're reason or rhyme is. Sorry :(
I never said War Z's idea would solve hoarding?
Just that people will be able to get weapons easier from people but a the price of being a target on the server for bounty hunters.
Quote from: Khorn on 24-11-2012
When I played WarZ,
That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard(ok I'm lying). Punish bandits for doing their thing, aka kill/rob people who think the Zone is a nice walk in the park, is stupid and shouldn't be encouraged. In fact, don't you remember how bandits were literally treated as if they were responsible for the Holocaust? Nobody cared if there was no bounty or any rewards for killing bandits, people(ironically even fellow bandits) just went after them to get the gear. Even if this bandit robbed a rookie for his 20 rubles and let him go alive, then ARMIES of players(all factions suddenly forgetting their hostile relations towards each other) would go after a single bandit to make swiss cheese out of him, tear him apart, burn him on a stake and then eat him(quite literally, mutilating human meat anybody? (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/596941142923088615/B29627C81EB1748E0A21A1AFE0CD7152FE12CF74/)) and his gear(Toz34 and a medkit, yay :D ).
If we make this even easier, then say goodbye to any bandit/criminal roleplay.
Holy fuck Khorn, there is no way to solve hoarding by removing various faction privileges. The only thing you can do is appoint a leader who works for the good of SRP, not only his faction. Hoarding will, sooner or later, find a way into the game. Besides, I have learnt from historical and practical means that starting to control the economy ruins it even further. See communism as an example.
Oh yeah, and call me when you have changed the way a p(l)ayer thinks.
TBH, I don't see a problem at gearhoarding.
Isn't getting as much money the point why Stalkers are there?
Also, Inflation?
Kieck's got the right idea, manually controlling the economy never works out. You might as well just make changes to the script to improve it. That's exactly why I posted what I said.
Why is this even being discussed? You can't stop people from saving up gear and money.
As other people have mentioned, to combat inflation we should encourage traders to hoard money and get their own, better gear. They'd work as a sponge, soaking extra water to keep everything else healthy. So discouraging hoarding would pretty much kill the economy because there'd be WAAAAAAAAY too much money left in circulation, making new characters able to buy anything impossible due to the holyshitbig prices.
I've never ever ever saw an Ak74m go above 3000 rubles or any gun in that matter go above what they normally sell for at various traders, so having money in circulation (a lot of money) doesn't have any affected on our pseudo economy
To Khorne
A good RP community has never been around that has had strict rules restraining its community. You can't force people to not do something. People will hoard if they want to. Providing a regime of rules makes the server look unattractive. Flags for all SRP players that spawn them with default guns will destroy the economy. The whole idea of gear progression shouldn't be there if we just make it so bullets do what they do...Usually kill or disable. There should be no reason in a RP a makarov gets laughed at. It can do as much damage as a gun of the same caliber.
This makes it so guns mostly become somewhat of an aesthetic, or a level of professionalism. But of course, better quality guns do operate better. I think that should be the focus on gear. Not new items and models, but tiers of quality. For example, in Dark Heresy, a good craftsmanship rifle will do much better than an average one in a combat scenario. Perhaps the AK you spawn with is of mediocre quality. The only reason you'd buy another gun is for the quality to be better, or for a different combat situation ( DMR, or shotgun for long/close range ).
EDIT: I know this isnt entirely on-topic but it has to do with the need/want of guns and gear.
Basically, I don't want to see people loosing upwards of half of their characters value on a weapon just because he wanted to do an STK and lost. Hell, if an average stalker has 10000 rubles in assets and than looses a 2000 RU weapon it's a travesty. And in most cases, this is true.
GR solves this problem, but it requires admins, people complain, and it's much harder to do than simply reducing the stinking price of weapons! Not only that, but when people do go without GR and die they fell regretful rather than happy that they had a nice battle with someone.
Quote from: SGT-Spartans on 25-11-2012
To Khorne
A good RP community has never been around that has had strict rules restraining its community. You can't force people to not do something. People will hoard if they want to. Providing a regime of rules makes the server look unattractive. Flags for all SRP players that spawn them with default guns will destroy the economy. The whole idea of gear progression shouldn't be there if we just make it so bullets do what they do...Usually kill or disable. There should be no reason in a RP a makarov gets laughed at. It can do as much damage as a gun of the same caliber.
This makes it so guns mostly become somewhat of an aesthetic, or a level of professionalism. But of course, better quality guns do operate better. I think that should be the focus on gear. Not new items and models, but tiers of quality. For example, in Dark Heresy, a good craftsmanship rifle will do much better than an average one in a combat scenario. Perhaps the AK you spawn with is of mediocre quality. The only reason you'd buy another gun is for the quality to be better, or for a different combat situation ( DMR, or shotgun for long/close range ).
EDIT: I know this isnt entirely on-topic but it has to do with the need/want of guns and gear.
I'm not sure what point you were going at toward me with this. But, I haven't suggested adding any new rules. Just making the game play in a different way so that new rules wouldn't need to be added, or worried about needing enforcement. And I've already said guns should be balanced and not nerfed like how the makarov gotten.
I don't see a reason to add quality, you basically said balance the guns, then debalance them somewhat depending on their quality.
We don't need to add guns(I never said we should), and we don't need to add quality tiers. Now, adding in degrading that a mechanic had to repair, would be somewhat nice.
It'd make a new job be official.
Quote from: SGT-Spartans on 25-11-2012
To Khorne
A good RP community has never been around that has had strict rules restraining its community. You can't force people to not do something. People will hoard if they want to. Providing a regime of rules makes the server look unattractive. Flags for all SRP players that spawn them with default guns will destroy the economy. The whole idea of gear progression shouldn't be there if we just make it so bullets do what they do...Usually kill or disable. There should be no reason in a RP a makarov gets laughed at. It can do as much damage as a gun of the same caliber.
This makes it so guns mostly become somewhat of an aesthetic, or a level of professionalism. But of course, better quality guns do operate better. I think that should be the focus on gear. Not new items and models, but tiers of quality. For example, in Dark Heresy, a good craftsmanship rifle will do much better than an average one in a combat scenario. Perhaps the AK you spawn with is of mediocre quality. The only reason you'd buy another gun is for the quality to be better, or for a different combat situation ( DMR, or shotgun for long/close range ).
EDIT: I know this isnt entirely on-topic but it has to do with the need/want of guns and gear.
That's what I was saying a few pages ago: the differences between guns shouldn't be so vast. Maybe the top end G36 is minimally more accurate than the AK74 but not such a huge disparity that if you go into a gunfight with an AK74 you'll be uncompetitive.
What if you dropped a copy of your weapon and you got your weapon back into your inventory when you died?
Quote from: Lent23 on 25-11-2012
What if you dropped a copy of your weapon and you got your weapon back into your inventory when you died?
Ridiculous inflation in 4 days.
Yeah there'd be that same problem of no way for goods to leave the economy, only for them to enter.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 25-11-2012
Yeah there'd be that same problem of no way for goods to leave the economy, only for them to enter.
Yep, that's why you make it so stalkers don't have a black hole to put a ton of guns into so they actually have a reason to sell them to traders that cash them in.
That leads to inflation because you still have money going to pay the players for turning guns in though limited storage space would stop one person from walking through the aftermath of a fight picking up every single gun so in that sense it would be an improvement.
Bandits that could actually operate without what Jake said a page ago would be the simplest solution, especially if they were an admin-run faction that literally took the stolen goods and just poofed them out of existence to keep the inflation down. But you'd probably still have the witch hunt after them because players hate losing their gear. Which is why inflation is a problem in the first place because every attempt to get goods and money out of the economy ends in players crying.
If guns duplicate on death, everybody wins. You win a new gun for killing the person, and the person isn't losing out because they get to keep their gun. It's not like there's not tons of ways to dupe weapons that are equally as detectable.
That only works if traders no longer let players cash in or else 2 people are going to go to a corner of the map and kill each other 50 times and collect guns to haul to the trader. Someone might find an exploit to dupe stuff when the script launches but it seems to me to be a bad idea to have duplication coded in the script itself. You're risking "Maybe someone will figure out duping" vs. "Everyone has the means to dupe available to them from the get go".
I'd rather take the chance.
People that haven't been here since the early CakeScript days, here's how simple the respawn with weapons works: If you're flagged as a part of a major faction, then you spawn with the swep. If you died, you dropped it in item form and respawned with the swep again. This worked and we never had the hyperinflations you're all assuming. The part of the playerbase that knew how to roleplay didn't reduce itself to zero because they didn't need to worry about items as much as they would like to. This isn't the case anymore. Stop worrying about regulating and tightening the rules, instead focus on roleplay more.
Quote from: Jake on 25-11-2012
People that haven't been here since the early CakeScript days, here's how simple the respawn with weapons works: If you're flagged as a part of a major faction, then you spawn with the swep. If you died, you dropped it in item form and respawned with the swep again. This worked and we never had the hyperinflations you're all assuming. The part of the playerbase that knew how to roleplay didn't reduce itself to zero because they didn't need to worry about items as much as they would like to. This isn't the case anymore. Stop worrying about regulating and tightening the rules, instead focus on roleplay more.
Cakescript had the advantage of its wonky save system wherein people would lose their whole inventories periodically. That cut down on the number of guns in the wild, I personally went through at least 50 or 60 LR300s when I joined Freedom due to inventory saving only working some part of the time. Which had the added benefit of making people care a lot less about gear because you'd lose your shit logging on and just be like "Oh well, I got a flag weapon". Or the admins would spawn you a new gun.
People in cakescript were also far less gear hungry so having guns didn't matter as much. Most people just stuck with their starting flag weapon (although a big part of that was the inventory/world script issues that meant buying another gun was no guarantee of having it later). Cakescript also didn't save ammo so there was a money sink in that regard (though it did mean most people walked around with empty guns until an STK fight happened...which had the added benefit of forcing people to /me roleplay because they couldn't just pewpew someone with their deathlaser G36).
Quote from: Paintcheck on 25-11-2012
That leads to inflation because you still have money going to pay the players for turning guns
That would be true if cashing in a weapon gave you it's full worth. When you cash in a weapon you only get back 50% of the cost it takes to actually buy the weapon from the trader menu in the first place. Unless admins spawn a shit ton of free guns, cashing in guns shouldn't lead to inflation.
EDIT: Forgot to touch up on the second paragraph of your post. Since STALKERs are willing to cash in their guns, it's a nice alternative to get rid of inflation without just taking people's shit away. This way, everyone is happy.
Hi, I'm $20 donator. I can make a character and drop the weapon, before picking it up on another character.
Hi, I'm a Stalker. I can die and drop my weapon, then pick it up again.
Both are equally able to detect. I don't see the difference between them.
Quote from: Lent23 on 25-11-2012
Hi, I'm $20 donator. I can make a character and drop the weapon, before picking it up on another character.
Hi, I'm a Stalker. I can die and drop my weapon, then pick it up again.
Both are equally able to detect. I don't see the difference between them.
I want to call you something very improper that will make me look bad, but I'd rather do this:
1) No one's going to pay twenty bucks so they can dupe AKS-74Us.
2) Creating multiple characters one after another takes more time than you think.
3) It doesn't take an admin to look on the score board and see that your creating characters called "AadsaFDf dsad" to tell that your duping.
4) There aren't as many donators that are willing to break the rules compared to literally every single person that joins SRP. This would definitly increase if word got out that there's an RP script where DUPING IS CODED INTO IT!
Think this one through before you keep on supporting it, Lent. It breaks more than it could (potentially) fix, and no one seems to agree that it's a good idea.
OMG WHO THE HELL CARES! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0#)
Seriously I can kinda maybe see why donators dropping weapons may be bad, but I still don't understand how adding more variety (more sweps) is really detrimental to SRPs RP setting/canon
Quote from: Paintcheck on 25-11-2012
Cakescript had the advantage of its wonky save system wherein people would lose their whole inventories periodically. That cut down on the number of guns in the wild, I personally went through at least 50 or 60 LR300s when I joined Freedom due to inventory saving only working some part of the time. Which had the added benefit of making people care a lot less about gear because you'd lose your shit logging on and just be like "Oh well, I got a flag weapon". Or the admins would spawn you a new gun.
Oh yeah, the worldspawn, maybe we need to put this 'accidentally' in for the extra-rich?
ps: it's a joke
Quote from: Paintcheck on 25-11-2012
People in cakescript were also far less gear hungry so having guns didn't matter as much. Most people just stuck with their starting flag weapon (although a big part of that was the inventory/world script issues that meant buying another gun was no guarantee of having it later). Cakescript also didn't save ammo so there was a money sink in that regard (though it did mean most people walked around with empty guns until an STK fight happened...which had the added benefit of forcing people to /me roleplay because they couldn't just pewpew someone with their deathlaser G36).
I'm not sure about less gear hungry in general but I know for sure that we had a playerbase that actually knew how to roleplay and guess where is it now?(hint:they didn't quit gmod)
The ammo works slightly with most swep bases(unlike the real cs), you see, most of them give you about 300-999 bullets to start with and in CakeScript there was no way to see how much you spawned with, but it was a LOT. I don't remember exactly when did we start using ammo boxes or if we ever did until Nexus/WorldScript.
Although now that I think of it, I remember buying ammo back then as well. I think ammo was given to flagged people only.
Quote from: Lent23 on 25-11-2012
Hi, I'm $20 donator. I can make a character and drop the weapon, before picking it up on another character.
Hi, I'm a Stalker. I can die and drop my weapon, then pick it up again.
Both are equally able to detect. I don't see the difference between them.
I have no idea what is your spergbrain even trying to connect now. We had this system for 5 years and we're not moving away from our donation system that works, while at the same time we're not being as greedy as the people we compete with.
The flags got a few hundred rounds if memory serves I think loners had to buy ammo because I remember buying it as well.
The point is when gear is made less valuable because you aren't sure if you will have it or not people show up for the RP and not the gear. Also having balanced guns would mean gearwhores would be able to do whatever they wanted without unbalancing anything since their precious G36 wouldn't be that much better than the "common" guns like the AK74. But I am tired of repeating that point and I think most agree with that.
My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcloud-2.steampowered.com%2Fugc%2F505763950846489566%2FF60902CD64E67856248062F027A2A86DAC40A13C%2F&hash=1a2b723823e880253be51a3131a025ea68704673)
@Lent You got carried
I took part in every event and NEVER ran for gear instead of leaving wounded people die (coughcough Headcrab's RP)
So my inventory was like this:
AN94
Makarov
2 boxes of ammo for both of em
No suit at all
3k rubles
arti detector
I aint even mad.
Quote from: Lent23 on 26-11-2012
My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcloud-2.steampowered.com%2Fugc%2F505763950846489566%2FF60902CD64E67856248062F027A2A86DAC40A13C%2F&hash=1a2b723823e880253be51a3131a025ea68704673)
And your point is?
Quote from: Jake on 26-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 26-11-2012
My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcloud-2.steampowered.com%2Fugc%2F505763950846489566%2FF60902CD64E67856248062F027A2A86DAC40A13C%2F&hash=1a2b723823e880253be51a3131a025ea68704673)
And your point is?
I wanted to ask the same.
Why are you so fast Jake, why?
Quote from: Jake on 26-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 26-11-2012
My inventory before the last SRP wipe (Not including weapons.)
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcloud-2.steampowered.com%2Fugc%2F505763950846489566%2FF60902CD64E67856248062F027A2A86DAC40A13C%2F&hash=1a2b723823e880253be51a3131a025ea68704673)
And your point is?
It's easy to hoard gear. This was my inventory before Adam Chronovich was PK'd, all of this was then taken away by Goose and he refused to give it back when I was unPK'd. If people can do something, they will, so don't even try to stop them. This inventory took like three months of faction management and smooth talking traders to get, so this is one extreme, but the safebox was big enough to hold three high end suits.
Quote from: Lent23 on 26-11-2012
It's easy to hoard gear. This was my inventory before Adam Chronovich was PK'd, all of this was then taken away by Goose and he refused to give it back when I was unPK'd. If people can do something, they will, so don't even try to stop them. This inventory took like three months of faction management and smooth talking traders to get, so this is one extreme, but the safebox was big enough to hold three high end suits.
Then why do you hoard it if it's a problem for you? I don't even understand what are you trying to say, no shit it's easy to hoard gear in a server where there are no strict limits on that to make roleplay possible you schmuck. This just proves that you could care less about roleplay or you're simply trying to boast about having a mediocre amount of items. It doesn't matter which of the two is the case because in the end nobody gives a damn, Lent.
Quote from: Jake on 26-11-2012
Quote from: Lent23 on 26-11-2012
It's easy to hoard gear. This was my inventory before Adam Chronovich was PK'd, all of this was then taken away by Goose and he refused to give it back when I was unPK'd. If people can do something, they will, so don't even try to stop them. This inventory took like three months of faction management and smooth talking traders to get, so this is one extreme, but the safebox was big enough to hold three high end suits.
This just proves that you could care less about roleplay or you're simply trying to boast about having a mediocre amount of items. It doesn't matter which of the two is the case because in the end nobody gives a damn, Lent.
Quote pyramid get?
Why don't we make it so guns have durability. (Or so that they expire/get used up after some point in time.)
Yes it makes people more hesitant to use their guns, but isn't that a good thing?
There's so many good things about that I don't know where to start.
Because coding that is harder than the other control mechanisms discussed.
I'm not overly familiar with lua but I guess you could have durability where every gun object (lua is object oriented right?) has a field "Roundcount" that, when the gun is fired, is incremented and once it hits some value you get the message "Your gun has jammed/broken an operating rod/has a worn sear/some other firearm problem" and you'd have to take it to the trader to get repaired. The trader could right click on the swep like you can to harvest ammo from and have a "Repair" option that resets the counter. Again not sure how easy that would be to code but the concept seems like it'd be doable.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 26-11-2012
Because coding that is harder than the other control mechanisms discussed.
I'm not overly familiar with lua but I guess you could have durability where every gun object (lua is object oriented right?) has a field "Roundcount" that, when the gun is fired, is incremented and once it hits some value you get the message "Your gun has jammed/broken an operating rod/has a worn sear/some other firearm problem" and you'd have to take it to the trader to get repaired. The trader could right click on the swep like you can to harvest ammo from and have a "Repair" option that resets the counter. Again not sure how easy that would be to code but the concept seems like it'd be doable.
It's the best way to make the economy WORK, since you know, all economies are based on depletion and consumption. You can't have an economy unless stuff is breaking/getting consumed.
Edit: Also there should be some chance that guns are irreparable.
In case of gun becoming overused, you could make a big roundcount that when exceeded shows a message which says the weapon starts to make some odd noises or feels as if it was going to break. A second, slightly bigger roundcount would make it so the gun breaks and it's just a scrap worth maybe 100 RU (30-50 RU in case of pistols, 200 RU in case of sniper rifles), and the traders should repair weapons for 1/4 of their price, like 750 RU to repair an AKS74M, etc.
EDIT: OFC it's all an assumption based on Paintcheck's assumption.
No one's going to get even close to using their gun till it needs repairs since they will be barely using them. It would give you a reason to buy new guns from the traders, though, but as long as they are expensive as hell no one will want to risk them in a fight. And if no one takes risks than the server will be boring as all fuck.
Kinda like what sticky said, all I see are even less fights, because people will now not only lose guns on death, but by chance the gun breaks after a shoot out.
I'd wager that it would increase hoarding preservation of one's gun, more than anything.
People will be able to lose guns even more than before.
Quote from: Khorn on 26-11-2012
Kinda like what sticky said, all I see are even less fights, because people will now not only lose guns on death, but by chance the gun breaks after a shoot out.
I'd wager that it would increase hoarding more than anything.
People will be able to lose guns even more than before.
Thus factions like monolith can terrorize with their giant stash of guns.
What the hell Khorne, drop the whole hoarding guns thing. People can hoard 5 guns at max. Woo. That wasn't whats wrong with the economy.
By quality, I meant guns that were poor condition had less of an accuracy of those with good conditions. Guns could never break, just decrease in effectiveness. Simple.
I wasn't referring to your version of durability Spartans.
And I didn't mean hoard as in grab every gun they see. I should have said 'preserved' as in, players would be even less likely to fight because they would be now able to lose guns both after dying, or shooting just a bit too much.
It will basically make another reason for people to avoid actual gun fights.
I don't think there's any better idea other than implementing worldspawn v2.0 bug or a shitty saving system.
Making it so people loose shit randomly is retarded. We need to keep SRP close to reality, and that doesn't mean adding in a Gearfairy that takes your items away while you sleep at night. I feel like my ideas just haven't been properly addressed yet.
Quote from: StickyWicket on 28-11-2012
Making it so people loose shit randomly is retarded. We need to keep SRP close to reality, and that doesn't mean adding in a Gearfairy that takes your items away while you sleep at night. I feel like my ideas just haven't been properly addressed yet.
It was a joke. Stop pretending like SRP is a super secret nuclear project that needs to be executed ASAP -- it's not the case, relax. We've got like what, 7 pages of ideas(and trash) + the economy thread and I think we're all getting the idea now.
Thats's what happens when you post ideas at HGN.
No one here understands what anyone is talking about.
I still think durability and faster paychecks would make items more fluid.
Not necessarily relevant to the topic but relevant to the economy
Drop the damn price of the Mosin and add a scoped version you want to know why?
I went around and looked at prices for Mosins in America at least. . . They never went as high as 260 dollars (8000 rubles) at most it got to like 100 dollars or so (3000 Rubles) and was as cheap as 50 dollars (1500 rubles)
Add a scope because you can add not WWII scopes on them its just more expensive than the gun to add things to the gun to make it a scoped weapon (Which you could use as an excuse to raise the price above what a normal mosin costs to avoid lots of people buying them for sniper weapons)
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefirearmblog.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F06%2Fpict0868.jpg&hash=9d4f1a1d8db90e0f1e54fb7f3a91334d7072d1b5)
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv426%2Fheavyiron%2FWeapons%2FMosin_Nagant.jpg&hash=a63d731e4cef82b231c0b4e8a8c0f20ea08b502d)
Quote from: Tom on 30-11-2012
Not necessarily relevant to the topic but relevant to the economy
Drop the damn price of the Mosin and add a scoped version you want to know why?
I went around and looked at prices for Mosins in America at least. . . They never went as high as 260 dollars (8000 rubles) at most it got to like 100 dollars or so (3000 Rubles) and was as cheap as 50 dollars (1500 rubles)
Add a scoped version of it cause
If we follow that logic then we should raise the price of the exoskeleton to over a dozen million rubles. The swep is surprisingly balanced, yet effective, which is why it has a high price. Mosin doesn't need any changes.
Quote from: Jake on 30-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 30-11-2012
Not necessarily relevant to the topic but relevant to the economy
Drop the damn price of the Mosin and add a scoped version you want to know why?
I went around and looked at prices for Mosins in America at least. . . They never went as high as 260 dollars (8000 rubles) at most it got to like 100 dollars or so (3000 Rubles) and was as cheap as 50 dollars (1500 rubles)
Add a scoped version of it cause
If we follow that logic then we should raise the price of the exoskeleton to over a dozen million rubles. The swep is surprisingly balanced, yet effective, which is why it has a high price. Mosin doesn't need any changes.
Except if you took it into a STK fight you'd get your shit knocked in.
YOu're right if we used my method of pricing Exos would be more expensive so would every other gun
I did however look up the price of other guns in SRP, they are more expensive than they are in SRP, like a lot.
Quote from: Tom on 30-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 30-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 30-11-2012
Not necessarily relevant to the topic but relevant to the economy
Drop the damn price of the Mosin and add a scoped version you want to know why?
I went around and looked at prices for Mosins in America at least. . . They never went as high as 260 dollars (8000 rubles) at most it got to like 100 dollars or so (3000 Rubles) and was as cheap as 50 dollars (1500 rubles)
Add a scoped version of it cause
If we follow that logic then we should raise the price of the exoskeleton to over a dozen million rubles. The swep is surprisingly balanced, yet effective, which is why it has a high price. Mosin doesn't need any changes.
Except if you took it into a STK fight you'd get your shit knocked in.
YOu're right if we used my method of pricing Exos would be more expensive so would every other gun
I did however look up the price of other guns in SRP, they are more expensive than they are in SRP, like a lot.
Yeah I noticed that too. I mean, AK47s would probably be expensive on SRP but in real life an old 80s AK47 is like a hundred bucks. I mean why not use those? Just make them shitty rifles. It'd make sense considering we're in the Ukraine and the Soviet Union made tons of these.
Quote from: Corocan on 30-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 30-11-2012
Quote from: Jake on 30-11-2012
Quote from: Tom on 30-11-2012
Not necessarily relevant to the topic but relevant to the economy
Drop the damn price of the Mosin and add a scoped version you want to know why?
I went around and looked at prices for Mosins in America at least. . . They never went as high as 260 dollars (8000 rubles) at most it got to like 100 dollars or so (3000 Rubles) and was as cheap as 50 dollars (1500 rubles)
Add a scoped version of it cause
If we follow that logic then we should raise the price of the exoskeleton to over a dozen million rubles. The swep is surprisingly balanced, yet effective, which is why it has a high price. Mosin doesn't need any changes.
Except if you took it into a STK fight you'd get your shit knocked in.
YOu're right if we used my method of pricing Exos would be more expensive so would every other gun
I did however look up the price of other guns in SRP, they are more expensive than they are in SRP, like a lot.
Yeah I noticed that too. I mean, AK47s would probably be expensive on SRP but in real life an old 80s AK47 is like a hundred bucks. I mean why not use those? Just make them shitty rifles. It'd make sense considering we're in the Ukraine and the Soviet Union made tons of these.
Thats why the gun itself is cheap. It makes no sense for the Mosin to be expensive, and using the argument of "Its an old weapon and no longer made" isn't a valid excuse. The same exact thing goes with most of the AK's too.
Besides, the Mosin sucked so fucking bad it wasn't even funny. Saying that it is balanced would be true if you took it against some with the skill of a 3 yearold with Parkinsons. Shitty guns like that should be a low price so that rookies can afford different types of weapons other than shit pistol and shit shotgun. They now get a chance to try out a shit rifle that is actually ever so slightly effective at long range.
Considering the fact that talibs still use MP40's, Mosin Nagants, Kar98's, Sten SMG's and other WW2 and 50's weaponry, I'd safely say it'd be easy to get a big shipment of these guns in the Zone.
And if you guys think that Sten's are so rare in general, then I invite you to the lecture of Sten production in German-occupied Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten#Polish_Sten).
Besides, Mosin Nagant is slow due to it's bolt-action mechanism, only really good snipers would want to use it because it has a really slow fire rate. No-scope variants should be used by rookies because they can't really afford any better weaponry.
so mlg
Guns shouldn't be purposefully made shitty. I'd like to see weapons that are actually identical to their real life counter parts. Rookie guns are hunting weapons, pistols, and maybe a sub machine gun. There are obvious draw backs to hunting weapons, like high reload time, low magizine capacity, and short range. Pistols' draw backs should be obvious. And an submachine gun has low ballistics and range. That's not to say they are bad. Any rifle round, and especially a slug, could end someone's life easily. And buckshot at a range of up to five meters is almost certain death. But, in combat they generally don't preform well due to the drawbacks stated above.
When it comes to mosin, I don't see the problem with it. If we actually made the weapons realistic than you will find that we don't need to make anything that different when it comes to prices. A mosin fires the same cartridge as the SVD, yet the SVD is much more ideal since it is semi-auto, better weight, better recoil, more ammo capacity, and less reload time. Where, the mosin is bolt-action, made out of heavy wood and steel, and is a little bit less accurate than the SVD. But, mosin and SVD should still do the same amount of damage. Good thing about making the mosin a rookie's rifle/sniper is that you can't go around abusing it's high damage and accuracy in STK because of it's drawbacks. All guns should have accurate prices and performance. Trust me, a mosin would be ideal for a rookie's weapon, along with all the other weapons accosiated with low/mid/high tiers.
BTW: I live in Tennessee and I can pick up a mosin at the flea market for 20 bucks. Now, imagine russia where it's even more rural and it was actually produced there.
BTWx2: I think an AK47 would be a must addition to the script.
I think the guns are the least important thing right now.
And to be honest, I did not see any problem with the economy. When people had millions, they engaged RP and didnt care if they lost stuff instead of crying in corner sucking their thumb because that bad-bad-ThY is on Albino and raping everyone.
We seem to be stuck somewhere in between making people have less weapons and making people have more weapons but being able to roleplay. As nke said, we had that pretty well last time..
I think people are trying to focus on new players coming (or at least that is what I am trying to do). Yeah the old guys who'd been around forever and had more money than the GDP of every country combined didn't care but new players would really struggle to get a foothold when everyone else is running around in Exos and G36s and they have a makarov. Coupled with the fact that mutants and bandits tended to go after people who couldn't defend themselves and you make life very miserable for anyone who wasn't around at server launch if you don't come up with a way to make them competitive without spending weeks gearing up at the mercy of everyone else.
Quote from: Nik3 on 03-12-2012
I think the guns are the least important thing right now.
And to be honest, I did not see any problem with the economy. When people had millions, they engaged RP and didnt care if they lost stuff instead of crying in corner sucking their thumb because that bad-bad-ThY is on Albino and raping everyone.
So do you mean the handful of players that was on SRP everyday, or the admin team?
Quote from: Paintcheck on 03-12-2012
I think people are trying to focus on new players coming (or at least that is what I am trying to do). Yeah the old guys who'd been around forever and had more money than the GDP of every country combined didn't care but new players would really struggle to get a foothold when everyone else is running around in Exos and G36s and they have a makarov. Coupled with the fact that mutants and bandits tended to go after people who couldn't defend themselves and you make life very miserable for anyone who wasn't around at server launch if you don't come up with a way to make them competitive without spending weeks gearing up at the mercy of everyone else.
It's obviously Silverknight's way to get people to donate. Starting with an AK-74 will let you live, right?
I would be incredibly surprised if the (shitty) donator gear was what people donated for. I know I threw my $20 in for the Bloodsucker flag.
I hope you didn't donate for the gear lent.
If so. . .
I hope you step on a Lego
Quote from: Tom on 03-12-2012
I hope you step on a Lego
Quite harsh....
Quote from: Tom on 03-12-2012
I hope you didn't donate for the gear lent.
If so. . .
I hope you step on a Lego
I donated because I like HGN
useful oc
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8064%2F8235664374_fc14a8ef47_b.jpg&hash=aa65a2aa7b40bd8477fcb13d6227813183c14f7b)
and typical SK reaction:
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F007%2F423%2Funtitle.JPG&hash=f0404a64483ca126a0bd8774dc989d37a7e3ccc6)
typical all hgners reactions
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Solution: Throw money at newbies like I do.
Quote from: Nik3 on 04-12-2012
Solution: Throw money at newbies like I do.
rookies reaction to getting less money they expect
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I once saw a rookie do a simple job, he got offered like 500 rubles and raged and refused to take the money.
Doesn't change the fact that mostly traders took people with a lot of good gear to do a job over a newbie.
Actually more like most people with good gear out muscled the rookies when traders would offer jobs.
I will never forget the time I made a job for rookies and Fail Platoon showed up and killed all my NPCs before any of the rookies even got to my trading post then tried to rob me when I didn't pay them enough for doing so (this despite me advertising what the job would pay when I announced it).
In short, players are dicks who will try as hard as they possibly can to ruin anything a trader/admin tries to set up as an event. Which is why traders don't set up jobs that much. You spend 30 minutes setting something up carefully only for people to rush out without RP, complete the job in 5 minutes, and then bitch at you for an hour for not paying the 1000000000000000 rubles and 10 exos for doing the job.
We've come full circle at this point but really if you want to see more jobs you need to either get players who know when to stop and don't vacuum up all the jobs/gear/loot despite having 10 Sevas and 5 G36s already or make jobs much faster to set up/less painful to run.
Basically just get better players and the economy won't be such an issue. Unfortunately that's unlikely to happen.
Quote from: Paintcheck on 04-12-2012
get better players
i suggest we raise an HGN generation
how many female members do we have
Quote from: Jake on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 04-12-2012
get better players
i suggest we raise an HGN generation
how many female members do we have
Jake, I booked Dark Angel for you since you two had something special in the past.
Quote from: Nik3 on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Jake on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 04-12-2012
get better players
i suggest we raise an HGN generation
how many female members do we have
Jake, I booked Dark Angel for you since you two had something special in the past.
erase astarathia from your list nke
Quote from: Nik3 on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Jake on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Paintcheck on 04-12-2012
get better players
i suggest we raise an HGN generation
how many female members do we have
Jake, I booked Dark Angel for you since you two had something special in the past.
we still do
Quote from: Steven :D on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Nik3 on 04-12-2012
Solution: Throw money at newbies like I do.
rookies reaction to getting less money they expect
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F006%2F725%2Fdesk%2520flip.jpg&hash=4ab092018cfd52d603077fc4148294c14a725860)
Yeah, I offered a rook like 800 rubles, while he got 1500 from the last job. He left without taking the money and called me a dick, both IC and OOC.
Quote from: Lucky Piig on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Steven :D on 04-12-2012
Quote from: Nik3 on 04-12-2012
Solution: Throw money at newbies like I do.
rookies reaction to getting less money they expect
(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fentries%2Ficons%2Foriginal%2F000%2F006%2F725%2Fdesk%2520flip.jpg&hash=4ab092018cfd52d603077fc4148294c14a725860)
Yeah, I offered a rook like 800 rubles, while he got 1500 from the last job. He left without taking the money and called me a dick, both IC and OOC.
Thats when the magical winds of the north blow in and cause him to.. "accidently" fall into a anomaly and lose all his shit! Life lesson learned: Be greatful for what you get.
I'd like to see some sort of automated quest/task giving system, just basic stuff for a 100 Rubles
Quote from: MorsTactica on 06-02-2013
I'd like to see some sort of automated quest/task giving system, just basic stuff for a 100 Rubles
As Khorn said, old thread is a dead thread, but this thread can't be killed due to the nature of the discussion.
Seriously though, I do not agree with your idea mainly because of average GMod RPer's nature. They'd just go and do the jobs, not caring about the RP, removing any kind of passive we have right now.
Vending Machines.
Quote from: Ragolution on 07-02-2013
Vending Machines.
Vendor NPC's selling ammo and food.
Quote from: Nik3 on 07-02-2013
Quote from: Ragolution on 07-02-2013
Vending Machines.
Vendor NPC's selling ammo and food.
They're exactly the same thing anyway.
Quote from: Tom on 17-11-2012
Make people work for money.
Either get dedicated people to funnel money into the economy with jobs
Or alternatively make NPCs that give simple kill/fetch quests
This.
Also paychecks should be reasonably high, but a much higher "cooldown" that restarts when you join a server, so you can't just come on for a bit, wait for a paycheck then log off feeling like you've done something, so RPing over a long time will be more rewarding, and there's more incentive to stay on the server for longer.
About the kill/fetch quests, I suggest a piece of coding for a possible bounty board, now this will take a bit of elaborating.
1. The person who puts up a job, it can either be a bounty for a person, an item, or to clear out an area. so:
-If it's a person, it just requests the persons name and reward when posting the bounty, when you kill the person, you go back to the board and you get your cash. (Possible dog-tags people drop upon death that resets it's "validity" when new bounties are posted on them, making it a bit more complicated than just capping the guy and you get cash.
-An item, the board will randomely spawn the item (Dropdown box?) within an area (drop down box?) so no-one actually knows where it is. Anyone that brings back the Item gets the reward.
-Clear an area, when issuing the job, it asks for the area (Dropdown?) , type of enemies (Dropdown? NPC's: Bandits, Mercs, Bloodsuckers, Dogs), Number of enemies and reward.
To be honest, I'm not sure how the reward would be issued to this kind of job, but I'm sure you guys could help me out here.
Quote from: Ragolution on 07-02-2013
Vending Machines.
....YOU WIN THIS TIME.
You people relize the servers not even a week into open alpha and your complaining. I was up till one am talking with Sharrock about traders and such and how we are slowly funneling money into the economy. we don't wanna flat out give players X ammount of money cause stalker doesn't work like that, it encourages players to coming back and earn more. Yes starting with 500 is kinda necessary because you need food and ammo to do jobs but really people. stop worrying when we haven't even reached week two, it will work out in time.
Quote from: darkzerxx on 07-02-2013
You people relize the servers not even a week into open alpha and your complaining. I was up till one am talking with Sharrock about traders and such and how we are slowly funneling money into the economy. we don't wanna flat out give players X ammount of money cause stalker doesn't work like that, it encourages players to coming back and earn more. Yes starting with 500 is kinda necessary because you need food and ammo to do jobs but really people. stop worrying when we haven't even reached week two, it will work out in time.
Not complaining, just suggesting. I do realize how very "In Alpha" the server is right now, I've yet to see a Free Stalker with anything but a rookie jacket. I'm only participating in the formation of one of my favorite pastimes.
Quote from: MorsTactica on 07-02-2013
Quote from: darkzerxx on 07-02-2013
You people relize the servers not even a week into open alpha and your complaining. I was up till one am talking with Sharrock about traders and such and how we are slowly funneling money into the economy. we don't wanna flat out give players X ammount of money cause stalker doesn't work like that, it encourages players to coming back and earn more. Yes starting with 500 is kinda necessary because you need food and ammo to do jobs but really people. stop worrying when we haven't even reached week two, it will work out in time.
Not complaining, just suggesting. I do realize how very "In Alpha" the server is right now, I've yet to see a Free Stalker with anything but a rookie jacket. I'm only participating in the formation of one of my favorite pastimes.
Understood, We just gave teir 1 to my trader and sharrock so we can sell more suits and guns to stalkers as well as been givin a bit more to compensate the pricing of said items so we will be giving more missions out today(as in right now since im getting on.)
Quote from: darkzerxx on 07-02-2013
You people relize the servers not even a week into open alpha and your complaining. I was up till one am talking with Sharrock about traders and such and how we are slowly funneling money into the economy. we don't wanna flat out give players X ammount of money cause stalker doesn't work like that, it encourages players to coming back and earn more. Yes starting with 500 is kinda necessary because you need food and ammo to do jobs but really people. stop worrying when we haven't even reached week two, it will work out in time.
There's a reason we have this thread called "economy discussion."
We're giving suggestions, not complaining.
It's also easier to get the economy moving in the correct direction right after a major wipe rather than waiting for everything to go to shit in 2 months and then people being mad when the server needs to be wiped again.
You can do this the correct way, which is get as much in place NOW or you can do it the way politicians do it: put off the hard decisions as long as they can until it's too late to actually fix the problem.