SRP: Economy Discussion (Because it needs its own spot)

[Tom]

Could just give factions a ton of money occasionally as an allowance and say "here's some money, fugetaboutit, just eat a fucking sandwich just buy shit"

[Steven :D]

Could just give factions a ton of money occasionally as an allowance and say "here's some money, fugetaboutit, just eat a fucking sandwich just buy shit"

I'm all for monthly or weekly faction allowances.

[Khorn]

For those mssing the idea, instead of just straight up locking inventory on factioneers, it 'd be a class specialization locked inventory.


Recruits get the basic gear and flag. They get promoted and choose a specialization. They are assigned a flag and the flag has them spawn with a set of items that fit their choice of class.

Like I said, assault, medic, demo, and sniper. Maybe a few more if needed, but each flag has a set gun and suit(I know their are already a few faction variants).

Ranks can be handed out like usual by just replacing the character's name.



People get their customization in factions while keeping to a simple and less reliant on players/admin system.





If we go back to doing GR with an admin watching to make sure it's all good, then it will go back to people bitching others out or lying about what they dropped, even if their was a list.


We shouldn't make admins become a server's babysitter. Admins are there to maintian the environment, not hold people's hands and wipe their asses.





Also, in case stalkers/merc/bandits take part in a fight with factions, they'd need to be on equal ground as factioneers when it comes to gear drop. I'd suggest each flag have a kabar and pistol locked to their inventory so even if they do die, they won't respawn fully unarmed every time they die. And factioneers need to drop something too, so non-factioneers can get something out of fighting while being equally able to lose something.

[Rebel6609]

Last time we had the "Weekly or monthly allowance", no factions got money past the first pay. If you are going to do that system, actually go through with it.

[Paintcheck]

>STALKER admin demanding other people do something an admin has to do.
Makes sense.

In all seriousness though the more automated the system is the better. The less you have to rely on admins to do "maintenance" tasks the more smoothly things will run.

[Corocan]

I like the idea of factioneers starting with locked inventories and specific class gear. It entitles more of a teamwork spirit. Just because Pvt Rich Ass is a rich ass doesn't mean he should have a Groza. It goes the same way for Pvt. Poor Ass. Just because he's a poor ass doesn't mean should have a Makarov.

We need to use a Communistic type of reform for the factions. I don't care how much harder you work or how much more money you have than Private Poor Ass, you got the same stuff he does because it works better that way. We tried a Capitalism and it crashed and burned like a monkey piloting a jet filled with napalm towards a nuclear plant.

Also, maybe a trader NPC wouldn't hurt? For the sake of simple fetch/kill jobs, of course. He would offer a small variety of these, each on a scale of 1-5 of difficulty which matches a similar payout. Maybe not all in rubles and instead some in items. Only a number of these would be given out by said NPC(s) and those not selected would change each day.

[Paintcheck]

Problem with that is the coding.

Presumably it is possible to do NPC hunt/kill missions because Gmod knows when something dies so you could make a function that kept track of how many NPC kills a certain player has and when he reaches the required for the mission it tells him to go back to the NPC or something but that will take considerably more work. On the plus side it would make it easier for traders.

[Gonztah]

I've never seen factioners buying guns for themselves, not in Duty atleast. We use what we're given. I also doubt that this would be the case with Military, don't know about Freedom.

[Tom]

From what I recall Freedom just kinda arms people with whatever they feel like arming their dudes with at the time (Freedom arms its troops not freedomers iirc) "It's a seedy, fugetaboutit just have a fuckin' LR"

The problem isn't factioneers buying expensive fucking weapons, its factions buying expensive weapons for their dudes.

I doubt SK would be willing to code his ass off trying to make factions have locked inventories and shit. The closest I'd bet we'd get is Factioneers spawning with guns.

[Khorn]

What I still say, is that Factioneers drop their gun and consumable items. And simply respawn with a gun connected to their flag.
This would provide something of worth to Bandits/stalker/mercs hunting factioneers other than getting payment from the job they got.

If you could do that and keep factioneers from /dropping items and equipping other ones, it'd be nice.



Also, a note on automated system vs manned systems.

Automated is complex to set up. (Requires time to make and ensure works.)
Automated is easier to maintain.(If you made it, you should be able to know what's wrong if something occurred.)
Automated will do what you made it do. (It's made to what you wrote it to do. It will complete the goal is was made to do.)

Manned is easy to set up.(Get people to do the work.)
Manned is difficult to maintain.(People leave or fail to do what they are meant to do. Player quits/vacation/abuses and is removed.)
Manned will attempt to do what you want in the way they think is best.(People will go about completing the goal in the way they think is right. Some will use it to their advantage.)


An automated system may be a pain to set up, but in the long run it'd be easier to maintain with the lack of worry someone will cut corners and attempt to exploit. As exploits would be easier to patch on auto systems than a player manned system.

[SGT-Spartans]

Everything you guys suggest, one of you finds a problem with it.


How bout we stop proposing and start compromising on issues.

[Gonztah]

I'd like to know what would the locking accomplish, other than needlessly limit factions. A list with what every rank is allowed to use and a semi active faction leader can accomplish this and not be nearly as restricting. If a faction member loses a gun you can buy a new one (300 rubles an hour is pretty good, also if factions get starting money that'll help too.) or just do GR. I mean it's not that hard for the leaders/admins to see what guns people had before they started, and having lists of standard equipment helps a lot. I can give a list of Duty standard equipment later if you'd like to see it.

Also there are bigger issues in the economy than faction inventories, like the lack of active traders, ecos that are piss poor etc.

(At this rate we're gonna need another thread about factions)

[Tom]

Also there are bigger issues in the economy than faction inventories, like the lack of active traders, ecos that are piss poor etc.

(At this rate we're gonna need another thread about factions)

I actually thought about that yesterday, about how little factions really have to do with the greater economy, most of the time from what I saw, Factions where kinda like micro economies within our pseudo economy that would usually keep to themselves and not really affect the rest of the economy unless of course they started interacting with stalkers on an economic level, like buying guns from them (Usually didn't since they had faction traders), giving jobs (rarely), or going after bandits or unruly assholes (That where removing guns from the economy), other than that it was almost as if Duty, Military, Freedom, and Monolith where their own economies.

[Khorn]

The thing that ran the economy was the players that had nothing better to do than play every waking hour. They'd be the first to get armed, they'd be the first to arrive for jobs.


@SGT-Spartans; It's sorta the point to have a discussion, of course we won't find a perfect idea that everyone likes. But we continue to talk in order to come to the conclusion of what solves our issue best with less bitchy players.
Someone will remained pissed off in some way regardless of what we chose. We are here to find out which can solve our issues, while minimizing player bitching.

@Gonztah; We should not let factions have a need for money in any way. Even if they are a self contained economy in their base, players can still get greedy and hoard money and items they find. If we make it so they have no use, chances are, they will have a low desire to acquire every item they spot in front of them.
And how does locking inventory lead to a limited faction? Factioneers don't need anything but their basic guns and suits. Military, Monolith, and Duty for one would have issues with people going about with non-standard issued weapons. Basically, majority of factions in game would force their troops to use what they wanted.

Freedom may be more inclined to let their people use what they want, but it would be up to the leader if a member could do or use what they want. And I'm sure they wouldn't allow to much variation. Considering they use NATO weapons preferably.
But to keep a form of customization, make a class based locked inventory. You get to be specialized while still looking and using different equipment. Equipment that still fits with their faction's ideals.
Even the stalker wikia states ranks and gear associated to that rank.


We also should get away from Gear Return, as it is a reason why people don't care to interact with other people in fights. In the actual game, if you killed an NPC, you'd get their inventory and be able to sell it off. If the items you found were magically taken away(Leaving maybe one gun, or money), wouldn't that be boring?
Sort of an example: P1-"So, we raided this small Loner base and all we got was this single lousy AK47"
P2-"Not bad, all I got was 500 rubles and some meds. Though, I spent about 600 rubles worth of ammo."
P1-"Yea, I wasted probably more money putting this together, too bad the Zone God took all the worthwhile loot."

I think all flags should have a locked kabar/knife and a basic pistol so as to keep people still somewhat armed after they die and lose their main gun/items. This would allow for them to be on almost an equal level with factions and have actual battles be fruitful for once for the winning group.

And lastly, seriously, stop relying on the hopes of having the perfect admin team that will be their to constantly watch your every move and make sure your life in the zone is well taken care of. Admins shouldn't have to supervise every fight in SRP. They should be there to maintain the server and deal with larger issues that can't be fixed by players. Such as unruly players, not someone who bested you at a fight and took your gun.
Again, stop relying on admins to do everything. They shouldn't have such a reliance on them, every time someone wants and event, fight or job.

[Gonztah]

Making a shit ton of flags for ranks and specializations would make factions even more admin dependant.

Factioners rarely find any items to hoard, mostly from faction battles when they aren't GR, some money from events etc. And since factions rarely economically interact with stalkers why would the hoarding matter, if we're talking paycheck hoarding then yeah, doesn't matter. Also if stalkers attack a faction they deserve to get their asses kicked most of the time. Factions are SUPPOSED to be better equipped than the rest of the stalkers.  Faction hoarding isnt THAT big a problem for the server you make it to be.

I still see no real point to lock faction member inventories, seriously I can't see what this would accomplish.

Gear return is annoying yeah, if people would get basic weapons after dying it would be better.

Your ideas require a lot of work from Silver, and then constant attention from the admin team. Someone gets promoted/demoted, new flags must be given. Someone specializes in something, new flags and so on. When now, the faction leader can deal with that very easily.

[Paintcheck]

People are really bad at noticing the difference between short term work and long term work.

Making flags, editing the gun stats, all of that takes very very very very very little time. Making a flag isn't coding an NPC trading system. Editing a guns stat isn't programming a new script. All you people clinging to this idea of "ANYTHING RELATING TO THE SCRIPT IS TOO MUCH WORK" need to exam what swep code and flag code actually looks like. Unless Clockwork is radically different from previous scripts (which I doubt since they probably have built it so people can add guns/classes fairly easily since that is a mainstay of RP gamemodes), doing things like that would take maybe a few hours before server launch but would save dozens of hours of frustration down the line.

Setting a flag to someone is also painless. It's one command (again assuming clockwork works like EVERY OTHER RP SCRIPT EVER) that an admin types ONCE and then never has to worry about again. How does that take "constant attention from the admin team" when you're advocating faction hording?

Faction hording is hugely destructive. The first thing it does is ensure that everyone tries to be in a faction and no one stays as a STALKER because the factions are the easiest way to get gear. The second thing it does is ensure that the better geared factions attract all the players which means the second one faction falls behind in the gear race, they are done. If Duty has all the guns and active players no one is going to join Freedom and Freedomers aren't going to want to play on their Freedom characters because Duty will shit on them with their horded gear. The more balanced you can keep the STALKERS and the factions the better for the overall activity

[Gonztah]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

[Tom]

I support factioneers spawning with some sort of gun as part of their flag (like ak74m for every faction since they all use it)

What I don't support is locking thier inventories and restricting let's say... duty to ak74s ANs and grozas and restricting freedom to LRs Sigs and G36s via a flag system. It really limits customisation and being able to be modular with your faction.

[Paintcheck]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.

The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.

[Lent23]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.

The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.

The same exact result comes from Gear Return?

[jaik]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.

The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.

The same exact result comes from Gear Return?

GR is not rewarding nor fun.

[Lent23]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.

The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.

The same exact result comes from Gear Return?

GR is not rewarding nor fun.

But dying and getting your same AK-74u back is?

[lolKieck]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.

The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.

The same exact result comes from Gear Return?

GR is not rewarding nor fun.

Cool fights are.

[jaik]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.

The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.

The same exact result comes from Gear Return?

GR is not rewarding nor fun.

But dying and getting your same AK-74u back is?

It creates a rotation in the economy and yes, the solution of spawning with sweps is a compromise for many types of people:
1) The ones that wish the economy to go on.
2) Creates an opportunity for the faction to arm itself and perhaps use the looted gear as a reward in missions.
3) Don't wish to lose their entire faction budget just because of one battle.
and probably more.

The solution of not doing anything satisfies a lesser scope of the playerbase.

[Gonztah]

I've got nothing against a simple flag that makes you spawn with a gun after you die.