SRP: Economy Discussion (Because it needs its own spot)

[Paintcheck]

It requires constant attention from the admin team because whenever someone is promoted/demoted they'll need a flag change. Also I assume that the old ones would have to be taken away from the players, leading to unnecessary work for the admins. I don't see what's the big problem with just faction leads setting up a list that they'll use when giving out gear for their troops.

People don't get demoted/promoted so often that it would be a severe time crunch for the admins and, depending on how Clockwork handles Permissions/flags it might be possible to let faction leaders handle that themselves. I am not well-versed in what Clockwork's capabilities are so maybe flags aren't going to work the same way but assuming it follows the taco/cakescript and OpenAura model it'll have some way to set kit lists and permissions.

The huge advantage of flags is it removes minge looting or other gear loss so factioners don't need to worry about losing a fight and then being rolled by the other faction until the next SRP wipe which is what happened previously.

The same exact result comes from Gear Return?

Assuming you can get all the guns back from a gear return fight. Assuming someone doesn't minge loot and run off. Assuming no guns glitch through the map/otherwise end up being unreturnable. Assuming an admin is around to supervise the fight (which is time an admin needs to spend NOT setting up missions/caring for STALKERs who need stuff to do more than the factions do). Assuming a thousand other things that I'm sure others will think of.

You see where I'm going? Flags are set once and forget. Gear return is labor intensive after every. single. fight. Using flags also means the factions can fight without admin supervision because they will get guns back if they lose. As it was before if no admin was on the factions would turtle in their base doing nothing because if they lost gear in a fight they had no guarantee of getting back. Even when an admin was on, if someone mingelooted a gun most of the admins couldn't spawn a new one to replace it so the person who lost the gun was shit out of luck until another admin came on who could.

There's intelligent reservations to be had about scripting projects (IE people asking for NPCs giving random missions, as great as that would be that is way beyond the realm of feasibility with the resources HGN currently has) and then there's stuff like flags that are so simple it's barely even coding. I've said this about 50 times in this thread but I'll keep saying it until people stop going "BUT IT TAKES TOO LONG TO SCRIPT": Flags are labor intensive once before the server comes out. Admin supervision is labor intensive every day, all day, for every fight, for the life of the server. Being told that, why do people still have reservations about factioners spawning with gear based on flags with undroppable guns from the flags? It's basically fool proof. The factioners can war all they want because they won't bankrupt themselves on one battle, there won't be a huge influx of guns from people duping because the guns are undroppable, and there won't be minge looting again because the guns are undroppable. Surely all those advantages far outweigh the 1 - 2 hours (if that) of extra coding time it would take to alleviate the whining, bitching, crying, and moaning that always follows an stk fight in the current environment.

Granted all these arguments fail if Clockwork doesn't have any of the features I've been assuming but I find it hard to believe it doesn't. Even if it doesn't have "flags" it probably has some sort of similar mechanism that is just as easy.

[Tom]

Aaaand no one addresses my point at all.... hell yeah!

[Khorn]

Aaaand no one addresses my point at all.... hell yeah!

You mean keeping Duty to Warsaw guns and Freedom to NATO?

I still think a class flag system instead so people can still get diversities in factions without breaking any lore or canon.
If we allow them to use what they want, SRP will become less and less of a Stalker game, and more of a post-apocalyptic danger zone.

[Gonztah]

If we allow them to use what they want, SRP will become less and less of a Stalker game, and more of a post-apocalyptic danger zone.

When did this happen even?

[lolKieck]

If we allow them to use what they want, SRP will become less and less of a Stalker game, and more of a post-apocalyptic danger zone.

implying stalker's chernobyl isnt a post-apoc danger zone

[Khorn]

I'm saying, it's a bad idea to allow factions to equip guns and gear that the game's factions wouldn't.
We wouldn't need to call ourself Stalker RP anymore if we couldn't even stick to a bit of canon.

[Gonztah]

Who says the factions would do this?

[Khorn]

Well, people keep saying that factioneers should equip what they want. Which they shouldn't. Freedom is probably the only faction that would think of allowing troops to use something other than their basic items.


We could just do the class system so people can get weapons they want while still being relevant to their factions. I don't get what you all have wrong with that? People can apply to be a different class and use a different kit while still maintaining the same type of weaponry.

[Paintcheck]

I'm saying, it's a bad idea to allow factions to equip guns and gear that the game's factions wouldn't.
We wouldn't need to call ourself Stalker RP anymore if we couldn't even stick to a bit of canon.

That's true to an extent but don't go down the path Dug did that one time when he blamed all of SRP's problems on mercenaries' inability to use only LR300s and bandits wearing stuff other than trench coats.

To an extent faction gear should stick close to the game but saying the canon goes to hell because a Dutyer is using an MP5 instead of an AKS74U is...well there are far more egregious canon issues that I would fix before worrying about if Joe Freedomer has the right kind of gun.

[Gonztah]

Well, people keep saying that factioneers should equip what they want. Which they shouldn't. Freedom is probably the only faction that would think of allowing troops to use something other than their basic items.


We could just do the class system so people can get weapons they want while still being relevant to their factions. I don't get what you all have wrong with that? People can apply to be a different class and use a different kit while still maintaining the same type of weaponry.

What they want, as in if a high ranking faction member wants to use an AKm instead of a Groza. Not that Duty suddenly would start arming everyone with G36s and LRs. Making a class system like that is just pointless, although having faction members spawn with an AKm that you can't drop but can destroy to get it out of your inventory would be nice though. It's a decent gun and most factions in the game use it.

[Khorn]

The Factions in the actual game tended to stick to the guns they spawned with.

And why would making a class system be pointless? It be more accurate to  the game. It'd cut out the need for money if you are part of a faction.

Again, the point of making a class system is to kill off any and all reasons to keep money to yourself. We should not let money have any use to faction members as they would technically be supplied with what they require by their own faction. They should be set up on the get go.

[Gonztah]

So far they've been pretty much set up on the go, the only use faction members have had for money is to buy ammo when there's nobody around to give it to you, that's it. The reason people keep money is so that when they leave they've usually got it in their inventory, 300 rubles an hour is a huge improvement on the normal 90.

[Tom]

What the FUCK guy? When did I say "DOOD LETZ LET DOOTY HAFE FN2000s and FREEDUMB HAFE VALs :D:D:D:D"

Cause I didn't

THe problem with locking inventories and making a class system based on flags would be the problem of having to sift through the whole fucking alphabet to find the right weapon (Assuming CW uses the same flag scheme as Nexus which uses the alphabet which was a pain in the ass anyway for finding trader flags and such) if you use whitelists (Assuming CW is like Nexus) you'd have the problem of having a huge list to look through, which quite frankly might be too big for smaller screens to fit (I don't remember Nexus's whitelist menu having a scrolling feature and typing it is kinda a pain cause you have to type everything 100% correctly as its listed in the script or shit would fuck up.) you'd also have the problem of seeing on the menu a fangled mess of a ton of different "Duty (CLASS HERE)"

The way you're proposition would look on a whitelist would look like this

STALKER
Exp Bandit
Vet Bandit
Master bandit
Exp Stalker
Vet Stalker
Master stalker
Exp Merc
Vet merc
Master merc
Bloodsucker
Bloodsucker variant
Controller
Dog
Abyss
Snork
Poltriegiest
Zombie Stalker
Freedom Recruit
Freedom Rifleman
Freedom Marksman
Freedom Assualt
Freedom Officer
Freedom Scout
Freedom Commander
Duty Recruit
Duty Rifleman
Duty Marksman
Duty Scout
Duty Assualt
Duty Special Soldier
Duty Officer
Duty Commander
Monolith Recruit
Monolith Rifleman
Monolith Marksman
Monolith Scout
Monolith Special soldier
Monolith Assualt
Monolith officer
Monolith Commander
Military Recruit
Military Rifleman
Military Special soldier
Military Marksman
Military Scout
Military Assualt
Military Officer
Military Commander

Don't know about you but that list is long as FUCK and would NOT fit on a screen of my size

Just make them all spawn with AK-74Ms, freedom used them, Duty used them, Monolith used them, and Military used them, just go "Here's a starter weapon and we gave your faction leader a ton of cash, fugetaboutit, Just eat a fucking sandwich"

I may just be tired and cranky from work after working with the dumbest motherfucker on the planet for 12 hours, so I apologize if I say anything assholish

[Ragolution]

What's the point of the NLR if Gear Return isn't automatically done?

[Khorn]

@Rag; GR and NLR don't go hand in hand. You can still have NLR without needing to return gear. It'd happen before when people lost fights, had to drop their gun, and respawn as if nothing happened.


@Tom;
You do know, you made that list longer than it needs to be?

And have you seen the voice commands back in FRP? IT was a shit ton longer than that and a pain to go through to find a command.

STALKER
Bandit
Merc
Bloodsucker
Controller
Dog
Abyss
Snork
Poltriegiest
Zombie Stalker

Freedom Recruit
Freedom Sniper
Freedom Assault
Freedom Medic

Duty Recruit
Duty Sniper
Duty Assault
Duty Medic

Monolith Recruit
Monolith Assault
Monolith Sniper
Monolith Medic

Military Recruit
Military Assualt
Military Sniper
Military Scout


And you could go back to the older flag system where it was separated into sections related to a group. I recall it was in a window with a model of a soldier, you clicked on it and a list appeared with related flags.

[Tom]

Then you're limiting customization.

That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.

Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts

done

Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36

[Khorn]

How is it limiting customization when factions are supposed to be limited? And again, why do factioneers need customization in any way? They don't at all, and never should have the need.

And the flag system was once implemented that way. But we can just do they same thing as before and have a pull down list. Or better, you can type it out like any other admin could.


Making guns like they were in real life won't solve anything. It may make guns more balanced, but if you give people the ability to use money, then they will hoard it. Not all people will, and not all will hoard consciously.

Factions should not have a need to spend money on anything. They don't need customization. Have a few choices in classes will be more than enough to satisfy people.



And to add affect Customization is not need at all for RP. Learn how to type and you can have all the bullshit customization you need.

[Tom]

How is it limiting customization when factions are supposed to be limited? And again, why do factioneers need customization in any way? They don't at all, and never should have the need.

And the flag system was once implemented that way. But we can just do they same thing as before and have a pull down list. Or better, you can type it out like any other admin could.


Making guns like they were in real life won't solve anything. It may make guns more balanced, but if you give people the ability to use money, then they will hoard it. Not all people will, and not all will hoard consciously.

Factions should not have a need to spend money on anything. They don't need customization. Have a few choices in classes will be more than enough to satisfy people.



And to add affect Customization is not need at all for RP. Learn how to type and you can have all the bullshit customization you need.

Factions aren't limited dickbutt. Freedom used more than just LR300s and SVUs, Duty used more than AK-74Ms and SVDs, Military used more than just AK-74Ms and SVDs, and Monolith used WAY more than 1 assault rifle and a sniper rifle. Also. . . I don't see what the problem is you're trying to solve if its not gear hoarding? Money hoarding? They're still gonna do it to get suits you crazy cat.

Also I think you meant "Is not at all needed* for RP"

[Steven :D]

Then you're limiting customization.

That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.

Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts

done

Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36

Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.

Example:

[Tom]

Then you're limiting customization.

That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.

Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts

done

Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36

Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.

Example:

If you can still change the suit just make a kits with some sort of decent pistol that most people use in a faction and every gun that a faction uses, bam. My reservations are gone.

And if you can't change suits just make different combinations of guns and suits

[Khorn]

That sounds great and all and if I knew it existed, I'd would have mentioned it.

And Tom, why would factioneers hoard money for suits if they were locked to a class?

If I knew a system existed where people could edit their flag/class whatever, I would have never bothered posting anything else in the thread.


I just don't want factions to have a need for money, or people will find ways to hoard.

[Tom]

That sounds great and all and if I knew it existed, I'd would have mentioned it.

And Tom, why would factioneers hoard money for suits if they were locked to a class?

If I knew a system existed where people could edit their flag/class whatever, I would have never bothered posting anything else in the thread.


I just don't want factions to have a need for money, or people will find ways to hoard.

Someone else explained to me that you wanted to lock the inventory to suits too which kinda sucks even worse imo. But now I don't care, because our argument is now meaningless due to what steven posted :P

Yay! :D

[Khorn]

I did want to lock it, but if you can make it so people ar locked to a group of guns and gear, I'd be fine with that.

I just don't think factioneers should have a need to spend money, not on themselves or their factions. Since they are funded by other means.

If Factions get pay checks, I'd hope they could use that money for paying non-factioneers for doing jobs. It be like having a lot of traders around, able to make simple and missions, but without the ability to buy and sell.
It would alleviate pressure on admins and traders.

[jaik]

Then you're limiting customization.

That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.

Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts

done

Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36

Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.

Example:

This isn't guaranteed to work because there simply couldn't be enough letters in the alphabet to define all of the classes we would need. To be honest I don't understand why is a class system needed. Let the faction leaders manage their members themselves, just give them permanent basic weapons.

[SGT-Spartans]

Locked Guns and Suits are fine, they get rid of the loner shark attack after a GR battle between factions. It spares money for the factions to make jobs for the bored stalkers. The rest of the inventory should be left open.



Yes I edited this and completely flopped my viewpoint.