SRP: Economy Discussion (Because it needs its own spot)

[Khorn]

Then you're limiting customization.

That and it'd take Silver a while to code a UI thing like in cakescript, longer than a few hours to do, that and I'd say its pretty safe to say that SK would not put a whole lot of time into a complex system that might not work, and would likely become unpopular quickly.

Worried about gear whoring to get 1337 guns? Make guns like their RL counterparts

done

Gear whoring in factions solved, people will start buying shit that they feel fits their dudes better rather than "Omg our faction needs a ton of g36s/VSSs cause they are lazor death canons" or rather people will stop begging faction leaders for 1337 guns cause it won't fuckin' matter much anyway since LR300 will be pretty similar to a G36

Ok, to put all of your guys's concerns away, there is a feature in OA/Nexus/CW called the 'Class' system, which I told SK about a loooong time ago and he didn't care about. But maybe he will now. Its a feature where it allows people (With specific flags) to open up a 'Class' menu that allows them to switch to a specific job. Some jobs were public without needing flags, and the others required flags to be given to you before they appear. It also scales how many people you allow each job (can be disabled) I think maybe we should use this system, as since if I recall correctly in Cider 2, it allowed police officers to spawn with a glock that couldn't be dropped normally (unless they die by BULLETS). I think that the system is coming back in CW, so we should take advantage of it.

Example:

This isn't guaranteed to work because there simply couldn't be enough letters in the alphabet to define all of the classes we would need. To be honest I don't understand why is a class system needed. Let the faction leaders manage their members themselves, just give them permanent basic weapons.

Doesn't a flag/letter just let you see more options in that menu Steven showed? One flag could show access to the Freedomer's list. Or something?

[Gonztah]

Why the hell would we need complicated class systems at all? Like Jake said, just make a flag that gives a basic weapon like the akm that can't be dropped. As long as SRP has money in it, some people would hoard it.

[Steven :D]

@Khorn
Yes

[nKe]

Why the hell would we need complicated class systems at all? Like Jake said, just make a flag that gives a basic weapon like the akm that can't be dropped. As long as SRP has money in it, some people would hoard it.

[lolKieck]

Why the hell would we need complicated class systems at all? Like Jake said, just make a flag that gives a basic weapon like the akm that can't be dropped. As long as SRP has money in it, some people would hoard it.

Yeah. And make sure it's not flagged as a primary weapon so in case of factioneers having another weapon (like shotgun for Assault soldiers) they could use it.

Also Khorn, since we have to be closest to the canon and the game LET'S JUST MAKE SRP A PRO QUICKSCOPE FPS HAVEN.

[Ace of Hearts]

We're done with this discussion of locking faction inventories and using flags or a class system to sort out their kit.

Get back on topic.

[Tom]

We're done with this discussion of locking faction inventories and using flags or a class system to sort out their kit.

Get back on topic.

True story

Paychecks suck and we need a viable way to funnel money to Stalkers to survive, aside from the "Faction Class system" that we discussed, what else could we do?

[Khorn]

Well, since that topic of discussion is over, I guess I'll leave.

Didn't know it wasn't on-topic. Thanks for pointing it out Ace.




Just a pro-hint, I was trying to work from the ground up to help the 'economy' instead of started at the top. To put it simple and related to the analogy I made earlier, I decided to start with a new foundation for the house, not the roof. But if you feel the need to start on top and work down, good luck.

[StickyWicket]

I think I have found out a solution to the three major problems I see relating to items in SRP: Gear hoarding, fear of loosing gear, and inflation.


I propose we make guns cheap enough to be disposable (except guns like the SVD & G36) and make safeboxes smaller. I asked a few people that used to go on SRP, "What's the one thing you carried on your character that you feared loosing most?" They all said their rifle. No one want's to pay a quarter of the price of a sunrise for a mediocre weapon like the AK-74. But, even if they do decide to fork up all that dough for their rifle, they rarely want to use it since it might mean they'll just die and loose all the money that they invested in it. It's simple, balance out the desire to fight and RP with the fear of loosing their gear.


I know what you're thinking, if we made guns cheap, they would be everywhere  More guns will lead to inflation, and they will loose value and people will just give them away. Well, that's were my second part of the solution comes in, smaller safeboxes. If more people get into fights and survive, than they will be picking up a lot of guns. In SRP, this usually means safeboxing it till you die and need another gun. But, if safeboxes could only hold a very limited amount of guns, that means that stalkers will just sell their guns to traders for a profit! And of course, the trader will than eat the gun and poop out a sum of rubles (basically, cashing in). This removes the surplus of guns from the economy, and gets rid of inflation since the traders cash the gun in for half of what it cost to make it. And what about gear hoarding? Well, with smaller safeboxes comes less wiggle room to pack up all your items into your ass.


I've thought this over a couple of times and can't seem to find anything wrong with this solution. But, please, if you find something that you feel you need to speak up on than do so!

[Paintcheck]

And what happens when you can't scrape enough money up after death to pick up another gun under your model?

That's the advantage of having a default gun saved as a flag.

[StickyWicket]

And what happens when you can't scrape enough money up after death to pick up another gun under your model?

That's the advantage of having a default gun saved as a flag.

Maybe flags would be nice for factions, but for everyone else it limits things too much and removes guns from the economy entirely. If I had to answer the question of what people should do when they have no money to get a gun, I would say rely on paychecks. Or beg, or work for people in a way that doesn't require a gun, do some passive. But, having absolutely no money to buy a decent weapon should rarely happen since prices will be reduced.

[Khorn]

If guns were cheaper, people would be more willing to go out. But even with cheap guns, some dedicated folks will still try to hoard all their cash in order to buy exos. Players that want to hoard will wait to grab as many guns as they can after fights, and try to sell them off. It won't fully solve the issues with hoarders, the only way really to remove hoarding would to be cutting out gear/inventory all together.


It'd feel a bit like how WarZ handles their gear. You can get guns somewhat easily, but another player can take your shit easy. But in SRP, taking guns by force leads to being a bandit, being a bandit leads to a bounty, people hunt bandit for bounty. Bounty gives player money which in turn they can use.


Make inventory and Safe boxes smaller, more realistic. Someone's backpack should at most carry 2 suits/rifles. Or 1 suit/rifle a few pistols. Not to mention all the other bits. Safe boxes should only have room for 4 suits/rifles and a couple of pistols. And the other items.


I'm still worried about factions hoarding money or items, since they'd want to arm themselves with the best they can get. Making guns cheap will lead to maybe more fights, but they'd begin to act like bums after each fight. Grabbing what they can and running away to sell it.
If factions had no use for money, they could use it to reward those players that lost all their items and money for doing passive RP jobs.

[Tom]

People are going to hoard shit, no matter what. Unless you make SRP a text based RP (and even then some might find a way to make a text based RP into a gear gathering scenario) I don't think there is any way to solve it.

[StickyWicket]

If guns were cheaper, people would be more willing to go out. But even with cheap guns, some dedicated folks will still try to hoard all their cash in order to buy exos. Players that want to hoard will wait to grab as many guns as they can after fights, and try to sell them off. It won't fully solve the issues with hoarders, the only way really to remove hoarding would to be cutting out gear/inventory all together.


It'd feel a bit like how WarZ handles their gear. You can get guns somewhat easily, but another player can take your shit easy. But in SRP, taking guns by force leads to being a bandit, being a bandit leads to a bounty, people hunt bandit for bounty. Bounty gives player money which in turn they can use.

This post honestly makes little sense to me, so I'm just going to guess at what you are trying to say.


Since guns are cheap, and suits are still expensive, it would take years of minge-looting to get enough money for an exoskeleton. You can't remove hoarding entirely, you can only make it hard and a waste of time, as proposed by my idea. You might as well just hunt for artifacts, or whatever it is that will make more money faster.


That second paragraph gives me a headache. Out of all the things you could of compared my solution to, you chose WarZ... Anyway, you got it right that players can get guns more easily, but that doesn't at all mean that people can kill you more easily. Guns in SRP were common, just very precious. And, unlike WarZ, a majority of people don't take guns by force. To be honest, I don't even know where you were going with this.

[Khorn]

Thing is, if people can hoard, they will hoard. They will do what they can to make money as fast as they can. And we don't, or haven't had, a proper system for artifacts yet. So hunting them down would be even more difficult than simply hoarding.



As for the comparison. When I played WarZ, people got guns from shooting each other. That was basically mine, and a group of us that played, experiences. Every generally hunted others to get loot, instead of searching towns for it. The group I was with, and some of you were there, we got inventories filled with guns from killing other players. Either in self defense, or because we saw them with nice gear.

What I am saying about SRP, is if a player came along and saw a guy with a gun, he could shoot them. Take the gun. Be called a Bandit, and get hunted. Another player kills him and gets the bounty.

Basically, gunplay comes down to STK and people can shoot people for their guns, but in turn, the server will begin to hunt them down for the price on their head.

[Tom]

I dont get how a fancy warz game mechanic (which apparently works in warz probably cause there are no major factions and its also not an rp game) that could easily result in bad consequences would result in solving hoarding.

[Khorn]

You already said it once Tom, ain't nothing gonna solve hoarding.

Unless you get rid of inventory and gear.

[Tom]

Now I once again have no clue as to what you're reason or rhyme is. Sorry :(

[Khorn]

I never said War Z's idea would solve hoarding?

Just that people will be able to get weapons easier from people but a the price of being a target on the server for bounty hunters.

[jaik]

When I played WarZ,

That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard(ok I'm lying). Punish bandits for doing their thing, aka kill/rob people who think the Zone is a nice walk in the park, is stupid and shouldn't be encouraged. In fact, don't you remember how bandits were literally treated as if they were responsible for the Holocaust? Nobody cared if there was no bounty or any rewards for killing bandits, people(ironically even fellow bandits) just went after them to get the gear. Even if this bandit robbed a rookie for his 20 rubles and let him go alive, then ARMIES of players(all factions suddenly forgetting their hostile relations towards each other) would go after a single bandit to make swiss cheese out of him, tear him apart, burn him on a stake and then eat him(quite literally, mutilating human meat anybody?) and his gear(Toz34 and a medkit, yay :D ).
If we make this even easier, then say goodbye to any bandit/criminal roleplay.

[lolKieck]

Holy fuck Khorn, there is no way to solve hoarding by removing various faction privileges. The only thing you can do is appoint a leader who works for the good of SRP, not only his faction. Hoarding will, sooner or later, find a way into the game. Besides, I have learnt from historical and practical means that starting to control the economy ruins it even further. See communism as an example.
Oh yeah, and call me when you have changed the way a p(l)ayer thinks.

[nKe]

TBH, I don't see a problem at gearhoarding.
Isn't getting as much money the point why Stalkers are there?
Also, Inflation?

[StickyWicket]

Kieck's got the right idea, manually controlling the economy never works out. You might as well just make changes to the script to improve it. That's exactly why I posted what I said.

[Otto]

Why is this even being discussed?  You can't stop people from saving up gear and money.

[lolKieck]

As other people have mentioned, to combat inflation we should encourage traders to hoard money and get their own, better gear. They'd work as a sponge, soaking extra water to keep everything else healthy. So discouraging hoarding would pretty much kill the economy because there'd be WAAAAAAAAY too much money left in circulation, making new characters able to buy anything impossible due to the holyshitbig prices.