SRP: What you like/dislike, Want/Do not want PROPER DISCUSSION THREAD

[Khorn]

I'd like the idea of weigt and size restrictions on player inventories and a size limit on safe boxes, not weight.

Players should have a grid inventory thats like in the game, can only hold so many items at once. Guns and armor shouldn't be stackable like food and meds.

Safeboxes should have a larger size limit, and only restricted by size. It should be able to contain as much gear as a real foot locker or chest.


It'd be able to cut back on gear hoarders as they'd need to dump items if they wanted to get something new.

[SGT-Spartans]

I really enjoyed reading Spade's comment on Dice.

Dice rolling /is/ RP. If any of you have ever played pen and paper, you simply didn't act upon the GM's discretion or the other players approval, you had to test for it. It does not have to be as complicated as D&D or Dark Heresy and such, it could be as simple as who ever had the highest roll won.


Discuss.

[Knife_cz]

I really enjoyed reading Spade's comment on Dice.

Dice rolling /is/ RP. If any of you have ever played pen and paper, you simply didn't act upon the GM's discretion or the other players approval, you had to test for it. It does not have to be as complicated as D&D or Dark Heresy and such, it could be as simple as who ever had the highest roll won.


Discuss.

I guess Dice rolling is sometime - rarely - good. But it makes something so retarded that I can't even. Like I remember back..uhh well just really long time ago, somebody sneaked behind someone, with all the roleplay and stuff and then he did something like /me stabs the man with his knife, from the behind. And he rolled, guess what he rolled 5 and the guard infront of him 100. What were they supposed to do? I don't even remember, but I belive he wasn't stabbed. BUT anyway, I guess this is just an example of bad /dice use.

Actually, give me some good example of dice roleplay, never used it that much.

[Spades_Neil]

I really enjoyed reading Spade's comment on Dice.

Dice rolling /is/ RP. If any of you have ever played pen and paper, you simply didn't act upon the GM's discretion or the other players approval, you had to test for it. It does not have to be as complicated as D&D or Dark Heresy and such, it could be as simple as who ever had the highest roll won.


Discuss.

I guess Dice rolling is sometime - rarely - good. But it makes something so retarded that I can't even. Like I remember back..uhh well just really long time ago, somebody sneaked behind someone, with all the roleplay and stuff and then he did something like /me stabs the man with his knife, from the behind. And he rolled, guess what he rolled 5 and the guard infront of him 100. What were they supposed to do? I don't even remember, but I belive he wasn't stabbed. BUT anyway, I guess this is just an example of bad /dice use.

Actually, give me some good example of dice roleplay, never used it that much.

That's a case of "You were already fucked. Your dice roll doesn't help you." A dice roll is for situations where there is not an obvious advantage or disadvantage, such as sneaking, or being shot at point blank range.

More like fist-fights, combat with a Bloodsucker, duels, standoffs, you get the idea. I mentioned in the other thread that I heavily utilized rolling for my bloodsucker so the other player had a fair chance of winning. I got a nice deal of praise from most people I had RPed with.

I'll give some actual examples...

Barlov, drunken and infuriated after a raid gone bad, pushes Dimitri Voyla on the shoulder as he enjoys his Vodka in the bar.
Voyla tries to ignore the drunk, and continues drinking his vodka, though he watches the shadow looming over him for any sign of danger.
"Oi," grunts Barlov, "Who the fuck you think you are?" He shoves Voyla again, this time attempting to force him out of his seat. ((A roll could be requested here, but a real fight hasn't started yet, so as the assailant, I would not request a roll quite yet. ))
Voyla is pushed off of his chair, but he catches himself and maintains his footing. He puts his palms up defensively. "I don't want any trouble. What's the problem?"
"My problem?" snorts Barlov, "My problem is little bitch STALKERs like you taking all the good seats in the bar!" In his deluded state, Barlov swings his fist at Voyla's left cheek. (( Now you'd roll!! ))

Barlov rolls 11.
Voyla rolls 13. The outcome of the attack is determined by winner Voyla.

Voyla jerks his head back in time to narrowly avoid being struck in the face, "The fuck was that for?! I didn't do anything!" Prepared for a fight, his hands ball into fists.
Barlov makes another swing at Voyla, again for the face.

Barlov rolls 17
Voyla rolls 8.
Barlov determines the outcome. Don't powergame though. Just because you won the roll doesn't mean you can instantly knock his arse out. Give it a few rounds before ending the fight.

Barlov's fist lands square in the center of Voyla's face, bloodying Voyla's nose.
Voyla staggers back and wipes the blood off his upper lip, but now he finally retaliates, swinging his foot up toward Barlov's crotch.

Voyla rolls 20 (the maximum).
Barlov rolls 2.
Voyla determines the outcome. Because of the extreme difference, I usually like to say the attack was more effective.

Barlov keels over and holds his groin after the brutal blow. It's enough that he even chokes and starts gagging like he's going to throw up.
Voyla follows up the attack with another kick, to his face now. (( Here, Barlov can't fight back in any way. A roll isn't necessary, but you could if you want. ))
Barlov takes another blow, this time to the face, and rolls onto his back groaning in pain.
Voyla raises his boot to stomp down on Barlov's face, aiming to knock him out. (( But here, you'd roll for a knockout, or if Barlov has a chance to recover one last time. ))

Voyla rolls 10.
Barlov rolls 15.

Barlov manages to raise one arm to block the attack, and instead tries to counter by grabbing Voyla's ankle to drag him to the bar floor.

Barlov rolls 13.
Voyla rolls 17.
Barlov's saving roll fails, and Voyla wins the skirmish.

Barlov fails, allowing Voyla jerks his foot free and lands another kick in the face, finishing the fight.

[Khorn]

I've always been pro-dice. Since it cuts out the whole, power gaming.

I'd rather have shitty rolls than some asshole powergaming just enough to win.


Dice can lead to some hilarious situations.

[lolKieck]

I think you guys didn't see what Cutch did in a fight with bloodsuckers. Ever heard of a machete-wielding bloodsucker-hunting stalker who ran away from five bloodsuckers?

[jaik]

I think you guys didn't see what Cutch did in a fight with bloodsuckers. Ever heard of a machete-wielding bloodsucker-hunting stalker who ran away from five bloodsuckers?

The roleplay was incredibly done though, but the reason it was allowed is because Cutch is a koolkid.

[Rebel6609]

I think you guys didn't see what Cutch did in a fight with bloodsuckers. Ever heard of a machete-wielding bloodsucker-hunting stalker who ran away from five bloodsuckers?

The roleplay was incredibly done though, but the reason it was allowed is because Cutch is a koolkid.

That reason is pretty much why jackasses are let free to do whatever they want on the servers with little to no resistance.


I personally like to use the dice system on certain occasions. Like Spades said, its meant to be used in scenarios where it could go either way and you want to avoid powergaming. Its however not meant to even out the chances of a fight that clearly is not in your favor, I.E Hand to hand combat with a bloodsucker. That's just fucking stupid and you'll get your shit stomped on, I don't care who you are.

And regarding Khorns inventory idea, I actually like it. Alas, I don't think we could come close to doing that. We should however actually up the weight we can carry. I don't know about you gents, but I sure as hell can carry more than 20 pounds on my back, and I can sure as hell run with it. I'm pretty sure that most people can as well. Besides, the low weight gimmick we got going on right now is annoying as shit even for me. God forbid I have a suit that weighs 10 pounds. I'm fucked if I wanted to carry a gun WITH ammo. Only way around that is to load up on backpacks or certain artifacts.

And to whoever mentioned the PK thing (I think it was Knife?), I hate the PK system. PK's themselves are poorly executed and are often for OOC reasons. Commissar's idea on making more PK's, along with Dark Angel's PK spree is unnecessary. I'm not quite sure I have a fix for it personally, but it is an idea that should be addressed.

[Yorty]

And to whoever mentioned the PK thing (I think it was Knife?), I hate the PK system. PK's themselves are poorly executed and are often for OOC reasons. Commissar's idea on making more PK's, along with Dark Angel's PK spree is unnecessary. I'm not quite sure I have a fix for it personally, but it is an idea that should be addressed.

PKs are largely unnecessary. They should, in my opinion, be accepted by the player being killed as a suitable end to that character's story. Too frequently they're for the sake of getting rid of a pain in your ass or someone you simply dislike either in character or out. Most of it is avoidable, and I believe it's a matter of new life rule not being clearly defined. You'll have a character who, no matter how many times they're killed, will have a grudge against another and will continuously attempt to fuck the other one up. When one or the other is killed, it's that certain instance that is usually forgotten and everything prior to it is left be, which leads to one of them attempting to get revenge.

Death having meaning is a subject that was brought up a few times previously in this thread. If you want it to have meaning, then leave permanent deaths up to the ones involved, especially the victim, with a few exceptions involving stubbornly overpowered characters hellbent on being king of the shower room. Let conventional deaths have more meaning by going back a step further, and let everyone decide on what should be forgotten based on the motive (bandit robberies and kills without depth wouldn't have much of an after effect).

Let's imagine two Stalker clans that resent one another. Maybe there's a death once in a while or a spontaneous fight without much lasting consequences, but if it's never resolved and it comes down to a showdown or some other less than peaceful resolution, let that be the end of the story. You drag it out and you get a metagame war of attrition or someone's PK'd. Dejavu?



There's many things I want to give my input on in this thread, but I don't want to get too caught up in it and the majority if not all would have as much effect as most posts here.

[Dstirling]

[/size][/font][/color]

You'll have a character who, no matter how many times they're killed, will have a grudge against another and will continuously attempt to fuck the other one up. When one or the other is killed, it's that certain instance that is usually forgotten and everything prior to it is left be, which leads to one of them attempting to get revenge.Death having meaning is a subject that was brought up a few times previously in this thread. If you want it to have meaning, then leave permanent deaths up to the ones involved, especially the victim, with a few exceptions involving stubbornly overpowered characters hellbent on being king of the shower room. Let conventional deaths have more meaning by going back a step further, and let everyone decide on what should be forgotten based on the motive (bandit robberies and kills without depth wouldn't have much of an after effect).

I totally agree with Yortys' idea/opinion on death having more of a meaning. I have seen many times mostly with the factions on how one would kill the majority of another and then they would NLR, but they would still hold a grudge against each other and try to find some way of getting back at the other faction. Like for example in the old Fallout RP server the NCR and the Enclave disputed over something and then they had a few little battles with no significance, which led to all out war and pretty much killed the server and factions. But back to Stalker i have seen make players and factions hold grudges against each other and it gets old. And with death meaning more i think it could help in some degree, which would lead to a better "Rp experience" for everyone else.

[Khorn]

This just in from our dear friend Stickywicket;

The zone is surrounded by torso high barbed fencing.


The one and only, truly devastating obstacle an adventurer needs to fear, while skipping around in the zone.

[Tom]

This just in from our dear friend Stickywicket;

The zone is surrounded by torso high barbed fencing.


The one and only, truly devastating obstacle an adventurer needs to fear, while skipping around in the zone.

Yeah man, after all The zone is listed as a vacation resort. So that makes sense.

[StickyWicket]

Feel free to attempt and mock me rather than counter what I actually stated. Since it seems what I said a few pages back totally flew over your head, I will rehash.


It's obvious that the Zone is dangerous, but smuggling things into it isn't hard. The cute pun you made shows just how little of the analogy you actually understood. I don't want to repeat this, but there isn't a lot separating a smuggler and the Zone's perimeter. Like I said, usually it's just a barbwire fence, or nothing at all. The reason you see lots of weapons and equipment in the Zone is because the smugglers that traders hire aren't shitty at their job. They draw up maps, make routes, and have great experience at their jobs.


The fact that you think there's a theoretical bubble around the Zone that makes it extremely hard for G36's to get in and out of it, and that the Zone is vactioning spot is very amusing, though.

[Spades_Neil]

Feel free to attempt and mock me rather than counter what I actually stated. Since it seems what I said a few pages back totally flew over your head, I will rehash.


It's obvious that the Zone is dangerous, but smuggling things into it isn't hard. The cute pun you made shows just how little of the analogy you actually understood. I don't want to repeat this, but there isn't a lot separating a smuggler and the Zone's perimeter. Like I said, usually it's just a barbwire fence, or nothing at all. The reason you see lots of weapons and equipment in the Zone is because the smugglers that traders hire aren't shitty at their job. They draw up maps, make routes, and have great experience at their jobs.


The fact that you think there's a theoretical bubble around the Zone that makes it extremely hard for G36's to get in and out of it is very amusing, though.

Ever consider the fact that guns aren't biodegradable?

The Zone does not have a steady supply of guns coming in. It's the same guns circulated within the Zone a lot more than guns outside coming in.

EDIT: Apparently my post implies no guns come into the zone ever which is fucking retarded. No, I'm saying no one except obviously the military and authorized mercenaries are shipping in guns by the crate-load.

[StickyWicket]

Of course they do, but I was just addressing Khorn's post.

[Plunger]

Feel free to attempt and mock me rather than counter what I actually stated. Since it seems what I said a few pages back totally flew over your head, I will rehash.


It's obvious that the Zone is dangerous, but smuggling things into it isn't hard. The cute pun you made shows just how little of the analogy you actually understood. I don't want to repeat this, but there isn't a lot separating a smuggler and the Zone's perimeter. Like I said, usually it's just a barbwire fence, or nothing at all. The reason you see lots of weapons and equipment in the Zone is because the smugglers that traders hire aren't shitty at their job. They draw up maps, make routes, and have great experience at their jobs.


The fact that you think there's a theoretical bubble around the Zone that makes it extremely hard for G36's to get in and out of it is very amusing, though.

Ever consider the fact that guns aren't biodegradable?

The Zone does not have a steady supply of guns coming in. It's the same guns circulated within the Zone a lot more than guns outside coming in.

Yeah, because all the new people entering the zone are just bringing in their mommas corn bread and nothing else.

[Tom]

My thoughts on people like Khorn, Spades, and Stickey argueing about smugglers in a nut shell

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon)

Seriously who REALLY thinks that no one would smuggle any guns into the zone ever?

[Khorn]

I never said they didn't get in new guns that way, but it's not just about crossing a border and hopping over to the nearest trader to drop the supplies.

There is a shit ton of things in-between the outside world and the trader that wants to gut you.
And that's only if the barbed wire doesn't stop you.




And to simplify it more for Sticky, smuggling guns in, isn't a viable option as in support of adding a bunch of bullshit guns to SRP.

Since this all started on the discussion of adding more guns for no reason.

[Tom]

Why would adding guns be a bad idea? I mean it shouldn't be the only thing we should do, but I'm not exactly against more weapons.

So long as they are sensible.

[Khorn]

Depends on how you do things, if you stick to the universe of STALKER, you won't be seeing many weapons that don't circulate constantly around the Ukraine.

And the other parts is the quantity. You won't see more than a handful, at best, of imported weapons.


I'm just worried about the quantity of weapons increasing too much. I don't want to walk into a bar and see people selling off weapons because they happen to have extra.

The inflation of guns will lead to deflation of their cost/worth. Then everyone in a month has an extra spare or two in their pockets.


Look at what happen to makarovs, may be the cheapest gun we had, but people had dozens of them and couldn't sell them for much. 10 makarvos for 100 rubles, since the trader already bought 20 from the last few people.





The greed people had, plus the selling off items to the mysterious T-Menu cash god, and poorly simulated and stimulated economy borked the game every few months.

[Tom]

So you're not so much worried about "Breaking canon" by adding more variety so much as you're worried about everyone having a small armory in their pocession

[Spades_Neil]

Apparently my post implies no one smuggles guns into The Zone, ever.

... Well then how do the guns get there in the first place?



I'm not that stupid. I'm saying there's not a lot of people smuggling shipments of firearms into The Zone.

[Khorn]

So you're not so much worried about "Breaking canon" by adding more variety so much as you're worried about everyone having a small armory in their pocession

For one, I wouldn't want to see that many guns from other countries, unless it's a special ordered gun, and if it is, it be the only on allowed on SRP. You should have the basic STALKER game ones, then a limited quantity of special ordered guns that will circulate the server. But that's a rather difficult thing to maintain due to players in general.

For two, Having a shit ton of new guns, canon or not, will be a waste of time to implement, and majority of them would rarely ever be used.

For three, if you have unlimited quantities of all guns, it would destroy that pitiful economy in game quickly. Since there are ways for people to make money quickly, either 'legally', or 'illegally'.

And the fact Silver allows a Pay-2-Win style donations. I don't know if anyone actually has donated just for in game cash, but that just creates more money in a world where money disappears for no reason, and then later, crates of money appear. Due to admins or player's activity/inactivity. AKA, player that has a few limited items goes away for a few months. Their 'limited' item goes with them until a new one is made. And then said player returns and you have another weapon back in game. Same with money.

The paycheck causes that issue to, since apparently you can get paid to sit in a bar all day watching dramas unfold around you. Or you can play the decked out stalker that is always online jumping at the first sign of a job/item, thus taking it from the more 'needy'. The players that are barely able to play get to sit around and watch as they are left poor(In-Game) due to life issues.




We have a system in general, that fucks itself over, time and time again. It literally, will fuck it's self over due to the high amount of variables that need to be moderated by admins. When ever I try to imagine what SRP's/FRP's Economy looks like, in a analogy like way, it looks like a house held together by glue, tape, nails, gravity, and a shit ton of other things that, just barely keep it standing. Put too much pressure on a few points and the 'house' breaks. And if we could, wipe the old house, and try to build a simpler, but more stable version of it. I tried a few times in FRP to get the community in abolishing the old 'house', but no one gave a shit.

[irondeity]

Oh, hey guys. *steps on Khorns visual House representation on his way down* ...Yea that mess I just crushed... One of you wanna scrap this off my boot for me while I talk? Thanks gents. Anyway we're here to discuss things that can be a potential future to the SRP server. Calmly. Like adults. Been going good in that regard. A few off the fly comments above this, but shit happens. So we dont clog this up with Economy talk, we'll make another sticky thread just for that, 'Good idea Iron.', yea? Here are your tools *hands out foundation equipment, nails, various saws, power tools, and screws, to everyone.* Now everyone has the tools they need, with smiles! Big topic deserves its own thread afterall

[Paintcheck]

You're never going to have a functioning economy because players bitch whenever anything is added that removes goods. Active bandits? Players bitch. Items disappear on death? Players bitch. Military captures you and takes your gear? Players bitch. That coupled with the "RPG elements" wherein gear is a HUGE upgrade means people are constantly striving for more and better gear.

If there wasn't such a huge difference in performance between top-end and low-end gear people would be less inclined to demand more money and demand better gear. If the Zone were real I think people would get a rifle that works and for the most part they stick with it; they won't play musical guns every week because they know the gun they have works. Also the firepower difference between an AK74M and a G36 in real life is miniscule, in game the two guns can't even compete with each other. You're encouraging people to be greedy with the RPG gear progression.