Problems with server Administration and DEAP

[Azomatic]

Alright, so i'm here to say something that the normal people on the server, without any administrative power have been thinking for a while. People can't voice there opinions in-game without an admin forcing them to be quiet, which may be because /me is being flooded completely with OOC chat, making it hard to roleplay. The main concern is DEAPs kind of dictatorship, I wouldn't put it in exactly that term, but it's that kind of idea.

Firstly, DEAPs huge ammount of members is a problem. I'm not saying that it's a massive problem, but no other faction has any kind of chance of gaining members when DEAP has the highest ammount of players, people are intimidated to create new factions, due to the fact that DEAP have such a high authority on the server. Not only this, but alot of members who are in DEAP are admins or players who have some kind of power over the server, it scares people because admins are together in a group, if one admin thinks something is right, they all do. The faction is popular because of this, it encourages people to join DEAP through either fear or general suck up for perks. People from DEAP would disagree and say "I don't think that at all." Ofcourse they wouldn't, because there apart of the faction and have bias towards it.

DEAP have alot of power on the server, my friend Lerrok came on today and found a sign in the middle of the village that I built for him a while ago saying "This is now owned by DEAP". What? This is completely obsurd, not only was there no roleplay involved what so ever, it was owned completely by his faction, so how could a normal player have put down that sign? They couldn't have, so that administrative abuse.

The next thing i'd like to point out is the administration on the server, as I have said before, most of the server admins are apart of DEAP, this is bad, if admins are friendly with each other, all you will get is a group of people who can basically do whatever they want. You cannot burn anything unless an admin disables it, and that will only happen when an admin wants to do it, having this kind of power is unfair. This intimidates people on the server, they feel like they can do nothing against admins, this makes them more friendly, linient and scared of the admins when it comes to actual roleplaying. Don't get me wrong, not all administators are intimidating, some are extremely nice. However, because there are no admins who can appose each other and share their views on the matter, all you get is one authority which can lead on to be unfair in cirtain situations.

Finally, the problem with spawning materials, spawning materials is usefull, do not misunderstand when you read this, it makes the server look nice and appealing, it also adds to elements of roleplay with the various buildings used. However, people who may want to set up new factions have to compete with admins from factions like DEAP who can spawn anything they want, trying to build a village or city using resources from the world is extremely hard, yet cirtain factions can bypass this and build anything they want, this is another reason why people are discouraged to make factions. It also makes recourses redundant, where this is roleplay, players who are small parts of it, such as inkeepers and shop workers are not needed, they are useless because the resources are infinately spawned by admins, there is no need to have an economy, which is a valuable part in roleplay and experience is lowered without it.

So to list all of this;

• DEAP has a huge ammount of members, rendering other factions near powerless.
• Admins attitude needs to change to be more friendly and neutral.
• Most admins are a part of DEAP, intimidating players.
• Admins generally feel they can do what they want without consequences, this needs to change.
• Admins stick to closely together, making it extremely bias in situations.
• Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.
• Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.
• Spawning materials also deminishes economy, making cirtain roleplay elements useless.

Things about me;

• I am a member of DEAP
• I have built a village from scratch, levelled a mountain, built a wall, built the buildings, and yet had nothing compared to factions like DEAP.
• Before I joined DEAP, I was intimidated by DEAPs power, and I still am
• This is my own opinion and a few others on administration and DEAP, I do not know what most other players may think.
• I do not dislike this server, or wish to leave, the community is great however there are still problems that could make it even better

So that's it, rant over, post opinions or whatever below.

[emperor bobby]

you have a few valid points, and your argument seems generally well thought out. but how do you propose things change? what would you suggest, seeing as you seem to understand the problem very well.

[Azomatic]

you have a few valid points, and your argument seems generally well thought out. but how do you propose things change? what would you suggest, seeing as you seem to understand the problem very well.

I'd like to see more administration that's balanced, as I have said when all admins are converged into a single faction, people are scared. It affects roleplay and it discourages people to create new factions, a possible solution would be to have factions owned by a single admin, it would balance things out a little more, and it would be nice to feel like you have some kind of back-bone to rely on. Also, with spawning things, this needs to happen less, there needs to be some kind of limit put on this, it is not fair that normal roleplayers with no power have to feel undermined by factions and other players who have the ability to create objects with no downside.

I don't know if this happens, but the admins shouldn't be able to trade spawned objects, it ruins economy, shop-keepers and other jobs which require you to gather wealth are useless, as no matter how much you aquire there is a city right next to you with is always expanding due to infinite resources.

[HitMan5523]

I don't know about you but all of the admins treat me nice. Except for Portkins ,but I'm ok with that.

[Roy]

I'm an admin if theres a major problem PM and Ill get to the bottom of it

[Ragolution]

I don't know about you but all of the admins treat me nice. Except for Portkins ,but I'm ok with that.

Not everyone can be a kissass shoe-shiner that gives the players everything.

If people ask me to spawn them things, I (usually) gladly do it.

When people rouse drama and other worldly things I detest, I do what I can to end it.

[Ragolution]

Alright, I'm going to dissect your argument, Azom.

Alright, so i'm here to say something that the normal people on the server, without any administrative power have been thinking for a while. People can't voice there opinions in-game without an admin forcing them to be quiet, which may be because /me is being flooded completely with OOC chat, making it hard to roleplay. The main concern is DEAPs kind of dictatorship, I wouldn't put it in exactly that term, but it's that kind of idea.

That IS the idea of the DEAP. It's a dual-autocracy.
More on the key of the "OOC Abuse".
I silence people when drama overflows and people just start flaming and bitching for no reason.

Firstly, DEAPs huge ammount of members is a problem. I'm not saying that it's a massive problem, but no other faction has any kind of chance of gaining members when DEAP has the highest ammount of players, people are intimidated to create new factions, due to the fact that DEAP have such a high authority on the server. Not only this, but alot of members who are in DEAP are admins or players who have some kind of power over the server, it scares people because admins are together in a group, if one admin thinks something is right, they all do. The faction is popular because of this, it encourages people to join DEAP through either fear or general suck up for perks. People from DEAP would disagree and say "I don't think that at all." Ofcourse they wouldn't, because there apart of the faction and have bias towards it.

No comment. I'm getting some Brotherhood of Steel deja vous

DEAP have alot of power on the server, my friend Lerrok came on today and found a sign in the middle of the village that I built for him a while ago saying "This is now owned by DEAP". What? This is completely obsurd, not only was there no roleplay involved what so ever, it was owned completely by his faction, so how could a normal player have put down that sign? They couldn't have, so that administrative abuse.

Lolwut?

The next thing i'd like to point out is the administration on the server, as I have said before, most of the server admins are apart of DEAP, this is bad, if admins are friendly with each other, all you will get is a group of people who can basically do whatever they want. You cannot burn anything unless an admin disables it, and that will only happen when an admin wants to do it, having this kind of power is unfair.

We keep fire off for the most part, and for a good reason. When people ask me to turn fire on, I do.

This intimidates people on the server, they feel like they can do nothing against admins, this makes them more friendly, linient and scared of the admins when it comes to actual roleplaying. Don't get me wrong, not all administators are intimidating, some are extremely nice. However, because there are no admins who can appose each other and share their views on the matter, all you get is one authority which can lead on to be unfair in cirtain situations.

I don't know what's meant by this, to be honest.

Finally, the problem with spawning materials, spawning materials is usefull, do not misunderstand when you read this, it makes the server look nice and appealing, it also adds to elements of roleplay with the various buildings used. However, people who may want to set up new factions have to compete with admins from factions like DEAP who can spawn anything they want, trying to build a village or city using resources from the world is extremely hard, yet cirtain factions can bypass this and build anything they want, this is another reason why people are discouraged to make factions. It also makes recourses redundant, where this is roleplay, players who are small parts of it, such as inkeepers and shop workers are not needed, they are useless because the resources are infinately spawned by admins, there is no need to have an economy, which is a valuable part in roleplay and experience is lowered without it.

If this is a complaint about me spawning items, please see "Iron is the only thing hard to get."

Even if it is not, refer to earlier comments.

• DEAP has a huge ammount of members, rendering other factions near powerless.

Yup

• Admins attitude needs to change to be more friendly and neutral.

Nope

• Most admins are a part of DEAP, intimidating players.

Nope

• Admins generally feel they can do what they want without consequences, this needs to change.

I've got a suspicion who this is.

• Admins stick to closely together, making it extremely bias in situations.

Extremely Widespread, so don't just victimize yourself and say the DEAP is bad.

• Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

I disagree? Novarium is a very successful ally and we don't actually act against anyone.

• Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

No? Bobby spawns stuff constantly.

• Spawning materials also deminishes economy, making cirtain roleplay elements useless.

Your spelling is terrible.

[Roy]

• DEAP has a huge ammount of members, rendering other factions near powerless.

Yup

• Admins attitude needs to change to be more friendly and neutral.

Nope

• Most admins are a part of DEAP, intimidating players.

Nope

• Admins generally feel they can do what they want without consequences, this needs to change.

I've got a suspicion who this is.

• Admins stick to closely together, making it extremely bias in situations.

Extremely Widespread, so don't just victimize yourself and say the DEAP is bad.

• Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

I disagree? Novarium is a very successful ally and we don't actually act against anyone.

• Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

No? Bobby spawns stuff constantly.

• Spawning materials also deminishes economy, making cirtain roleplay elements useless.

Your spelling is terrible.

Admins need to be friendly
Most admins are in DEAP
Most admins do as they like
Deap takes up atleast  1/6 of the server

[Ragolution]

• DEAP has a huge ammount of members, rendering other factions near powerless.

Yup

• Admins attitude needs to change to be more friendly and neutral.

Nope

• Most admins are a part of DEAP, intimidating players.

Nope

• Admins generally feel they can do what they want without consequences, this needs to change.

I've got a suspicion who this is.

• Admins stick to closely together, making it extremely bias in situations.

Extremely Widespread, so don't just victimize yourself and say the DEAP is bad.

• Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

I disagree? Novarium is a very successful ally and we don't actually act against anyone.

• Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

No? Bobby spawns stuff constantly.

• Spawning materials also deminishes economy, making cirtain roleplay elements useless.

Your spelling is terrible.

Admins need to be friendly
Most admins are in DEAP
Most admins do as they like
Deap takes up atleast  1/6 of the server

I agree that admins should be freindly, but what players see as freindly is really asskissing and ball-coddling.
There's only two admins in DEAP last I checked. I could be wrong.
I don't know what to do about that.
Plausible but our members are inactive as shit. Might start purging the roster.

[Roy]

You, Anton/ramanchen, cloud87, geccoy spacemonkey and those are the OPs I know of

[RanmaChan]

Alright, so i'm here to say something that the normal people on the server, without any administrative power have been thinking for a while. People can't voice there opinions in-game without an admin forcing them to be quiet, which may be because /me is being flooded completely with OOC chat, making it hard to roleplay. The main concern is DEAPs kind of dictatorship, I wouldn't put it in exactly that term, but it's that kind of idea.

Firstly, DEAPs huge ammount of members is a problem. I'm not saying that it's a massive problem, but no other faction has any kind of chance of gaining members when DEAP has the highest ammount of players, people are intimidated to create new factions, due to the fact that DEAP have such a high authority on the server. Not only this, but alot of members who are in DEAP are admins or players who have some kind of power over the server, it scares people because admins are together in a group, if one admin thinks something is right, they all do. The faction is popular because of this, it encourages people to join DEAP through either fear or general suck up for perks. People from DEAP would disagree and say "I don't think that at all." Ofcourse they wouldn't, because there apart of the faction and have bias towards it.

Alright, I will explain my views on this.  We have a large amount of players because people want to join us.  They either applied on the faction, or came to the city and said they wanted to join, just like you.  I don't have the heart to say no to people, unless they can't roleplay obviously.  My other point is that DEAP is supposed to be a big city.  We need a bunch of people to populate a city.  It actually only started with me, Portkins, and Geccoy.  Arcc then joined when he started playing again, and then Blackstar joined, because he loved the idea of magic RP.  Ralazo then joined because no one was ever on with Crussaria, and he wanted any kind of RP.

The point of DEAP is that it is a moderating faction.  Like the admins moderate, that was the idea of the United Faction.  On the old map wars between factions tore the world apart, and major bullshit went on between them.  The idea is that DEAP would be the big faction (example: America) that makes the other factions play nice, or when they do fight, fight by some set out rules.

DEAP have alot of power on the server, my friend Lerrok came on today and found a sign in the middle of the village that I built for him a while ago saying "This is now owned by DEAP". What? This is completely obsurd, not only was there no roleplay involved what so ever, it was owned completely by his faction, so how could a normal player have put down that sign? They couldn't have, so that administrative abuse.

I have absolutely no idea who did that, but I never, ever, have gone into peoples factions and touched stuff.  The only thing I did in response to your friends faction was build a wall on our island facing yours, so you would know which way not to dig, or look for resources, et cetera.  No admin in our faction would ever just place a sign in your base to say it is ours.  I will say this again, we don't want all your bases or factions, I chose to build on a big island so our limits could be seen easily.

The next thing i'd like to point out is the administration on the server, as I have said before, most of the server admins are apart of DEAP, this is bad, if admins are friendly with each other, all you will get is a group of people who can basically do whatever they want. You cannot burn anything unless an admin disables it, and that will only happen when an admin wants to do it, having this kind of power is unfair. This intimidates people on the server, they feel like they can do nothing against admins, this makes them more friendly, linient and scared of the admins when it comes to actual roleplaying. Don't get me wrong, not all administators are intimidating, some are extremely nice. However, because there are no admins who can appose each other and share their views on the matter, all you get is one authority which can lead on to be unfair in cirtain situations.

Nothing will be burned at all.  The only reason it was off this morning was because the server crashed last night, and it had to be reset.  I assure you that Portkins, Ralazo, and I all have extremely different viewpoints on the server, what should be done, how it should be run, et cetera.  We are not all one big conglomeration of admins who all agree with each other.  I would include Blackstar in this but I don't see him on a lot due to timezone differences.

Finally, the problem with spawning materials, spawning materials is usefull, do not misunderstand when you read this, it makes the server look nice and appealing, it also adds to elements of roleplay with the various buildings used. However, people who may want to set up new factions have to compete with admins from factions like DEAP who can spawn anything they want, trying to build a village or city using resources from the world is extremely hard, yet cirtain factions can bypass this and build anything they want, this is another reason why people are discouraged to make factions. It also makes recourses redundant, where this is roleplay, players who are small parts of it, such as inkeepers and shop workers are not needed, they are useless because the resources are infinately spawned by admins, there is no need to have an economy, which is a valuable part in roleplay and experience is lowered without it.

I have actually been striving to get a working economy.  I have been advertising to people when ever I can, the job of merchant, or shopkeeper, in which I would supply them with items that are hard to get, or impossible to get.  However, the merchants I do get are almost never on.  My blacksmith is never on, my innkeeper ran away without signing papers to leave the faction, my tavernkeeper had a plan to kill me and Portkins.  The only merchant I have on in the city consitantly is Lindy, and she is only a produce merchant.  I spawn people items when they ask for it, because the items I spawn are (90% of the time) things you cannot get in game. 

As for the idea of us spawning items to build our city, I don't really think it is that unfair personally.  We use stone, half blocks, and iron to get our particular look and style, and those materials take forever to get normally.  If someone asks me for stone I give it to them.  If someone wanted to make a faction that builds with leaves, I would give it to them (after getting to know them, and finding out if they are being serious or not, the example would be elves living in trees, et cetera.)

So to list all of this;

• DEAP has a huge ammount of members, rendering other factions near powerless.

No, we don't render them powerless.  The people who have joined my faction very nearly never come on, and the purpose of DEAP is to keep faction order, so we don't get chaos like last
time.

• Admins attitude needs to change to be more friendly and neutral.

I don't really understand what admins you are talking about.  The only admins who cab be mean is Portkins, but that is because he doesn't like to deal with peoples bullshit, which is admirable, I feel I have to be nice all the time.

• Most admins are a part of DEAP, intimidating players.

Are you kidding me?  More then half the people who play on this server don't even know who the admins are let alone that they play in DEAP.  Again, DEAP = moderating faction.  Admins = moderators.  You see the connection?

• Admins generally feel they can do what they want without consequences, this needs to change.

Again, I don't understand.  What have we done where we thought we wouldn't face consequences?

• Admins stick to closely together, making it extremely bias in situations.

Again, you say all these things but I cannot think of many situations where this has happened.  Me and Port disagree on a lot of things, especially server rules, what exactly is fair, not fair, et cetera.

• Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

Players feel like that too when they wander around in HL2RP as Citizens, watching metrocops beat the shit out of people, or wandering around as Wastelanders in FalloutRP, and seeing a squad of Brotherhood Paladins walking around.  Once they join a faction, climb the ranks, and find their place, I am sure they won't feel so scared.

• Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

Actually, I spawn things for people they can't get, which includes DEAP.  It is hard to get regular stone, half blocks, and the iron blocks we use to attain our style, so we spawn it.  Bobby spawns for Novarium, and I would spawn things for Turkey and his Legion, if I didn't hate him so much, lol.

• Spawning materials also deminishes economy, making cirtain roleplay elements useless.

Once we get a working economy with enough merchants on at all times, then I will stop spawning players the items they require.  I have been trying my best to get shops and the economy started up, so had Bobby, he even built a large trade building.  Azo, there is no economy yet because there aren't enough people playing as merchants to supply people.
[/list]

Things about me;

• I am a member of DEAP
• I have built a village from scratch, levelled a mountain, built a wall, built the buildings, and yet had nothing compared to factions like DEAP.
• Before I joined DEAP, I was intimidated by DEAPs power, and I still am
• This is my own opinion and a few others on administration and DEAP, I do not know what most other players may think.
• I do not dislike this server, or wish to leave, the community is great however there are still problems that could make it even better

I am actually kind of sad you would write all this, but I can see where you are coming from, I think.  Remember though, the server just restarted recently, and this is minecraft RP, something which is new to a lot of people, and a lot of admins too.  We are working on how to solve all these problems and issues.  I saw what went wrong on the last server, and made the United Factions to fix it.  I heard everyone complaining about no one being around to RP with, so I made a city with shops, areas to smelt goods, craft items, and portal to other major cities so people can travel easily from place to place to RP.  THen we get complaints about our city being to big, and having too many people.  What do you want us to do?

This is exactly like with the Brotherhood of Steel.  We would go out to scavenge for tech, and get yelled at for RPing incorrectly with Wastelanders.  Try to avoid that situation?  We stayed in the base, and got yelled at for saying in our base.  This is the same thing here.  One side wants one thing, another side wants another.  I am sorry, but I can't make things perfect (as much as I try with my OCD, lol)

So that's it, rant over, post opinions or whatever below.

[Ragolution]

You, Anton/ramanchen, cloud87, geccoy spacemonkey and those are the OPs I know of

Spacemonkey?

Cloud's an OP?

Geccoy's only whitelist checker and has started to abuse her power.

[Azomatic]

* DEAP has a huge ammount of members, rendering other factions near powerless.

Yup

    * Admins attitude needs to change to be more friendly and neutral.

Nope

    * Most admins are a part of DEAP, intimidating players.

Nope

    * Admins generally feel they can do what they want without consequences, this needs to change.

I've got a suspicion who this is.

    * Admins stick to closely together, making it extremely bias in situations.

Extremely Widespread, so don't just victimize yourself and say the DEAP is bad.

    * Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

I disagree? Novarium is a very successful ally and we don't actually act against anyone.

    * Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

No? Bobby spawns stuff constantly.

    * Spawning materials also deminishes economy, making cirtain roleplay elements useless.

Your spelling is terrible.

"I disagree? Novarium is a very successful ally and we don't actually act against anyone."
Does Novarium not have an admin as the head of the faction? I am not talking about factions who can actually spawn what they like when they like and generally build what they want without consequences. I am talking from the point of view of normal players on the server who wish to roleplay in their own factions, yet cannot do so as they do not have enough power. Although it is the idea of DEAP to be a moderating power on the server, it gives them an unfair advantage over every other faction.

Extremely Widespread, so don't just victimize yourself and say the DEAP is bad.#
I am not merely victimising myself, I am speaking for alot of players on the server who may share my point of view, and other players who I know infact DO share my point of view.

No? Bobby spawns stuff constantly.
Again, an admin owned faction. The point still stands that it's an unfair advantage to other players who would like to have their own factions, yet cannot do so due to lack of power.

Your spelling is terrible.
That's kind of pathetic if i'm honest, I was never really good at english. However you cannot dismiss my point on mere spelling.

    * Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

Actually, I spawn things for people they can't get, which includes DEAP.  It is hard to get regular stone, half blocks, and the iron blocks we use to attain our style, so we spawn it.  Bobby spawns for Novarium, and I would spawn things for Turkey and his Legion, if I didn't hate him so much, lol.

If this is the case then admins should definately listen more when players are asking for resources, I spent a while building a town. I asked multiple times for building materials, yet I was ignored. It wasted time building the village when it could have been a shorter job with the help of an admin, yet they were either to busy roleplaying, argueing with players, or building their own buildings. If you wish to build your own citys with your powers, maybe the admins should pay a little more attention to players who actually could do with more help. Is this not one of the basic foundations when it comes to administration?

* Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

Players feel like that too when they wander around in HL2RP as Citizens, watching metrocops beat the shit out of people, or wandering around as Wastelanders in FalloutRP, and seeing a squad of Brotherhood Paladins walking around.  Once they join a faction, climb the ranks, and find their place, I am sure they won't feel so scared.

Yep, sure they do, infact I know because I have played HL2RP. However, if I recall in HL2RP it was fairly easy, if you were a good roleplayer and depending on the server, to join metrocops and beat the shit out of people. This is not the case when it comes to minecraft roleplay, in HL2RP you have mainly preset factions, Metrocops, Citizens ETC and it was extremely difficult to amass power against the metrocops unless you had a huge player base. Unlike HL2RP, it is much easier to create your own faction, and roleplay accordingly, however in my own expirience and again a few others, they feel as if making a faction will make you unfriendly with other factions. It can only be that either this is true, or, players are not given enough support to create new factions, it puts a kind of limit on roleplay experience. If you are going to have roleplay which lets you create new factions and have your own set of rules in that faction, then allow players to understand that they can do this without/or little consequences, likewise, if you are going to have major factions, make it so players have to stick to cirtain factions and are unable to create their own, as players who may wish to do so may feel as if there would be no possitives.

This is exactly like with the Brotherhood of Steel.  We would go out to scavenge for tech, and get yelled at for RPing incorrectly with Wastelanders.  Try to avoid that situation?  We stayed in the base, and got yelled at for saying in our base.  This is the same thing here.  One side wants one thing, another side wants another.  I am sorry, but I can't make things perfect (as much as I try with my OCD, lol)

I am not really asking you to make anything perfect, neither am I going to say that this is a major problem. Again, this is my own view point and view points of other players of how we feel when we are playing on the server. Some things just need to be changed slightly, like as I have suggested, only making admins able to create factions to balance the game out a little, or giving players who wish to create new factions the ability to use moderative commands for constructive roleplay purposes. Nothing major such as the ability to shut the server down ETC. It might be a good idea to make it so factions require an application form to create and owners of the faction are given powers. Of course, I do understand that this may lead to major abuse of powers, and possible minging, however with the right moderation on application forms, such as the ammount of time one has played on the server, how well they are trusted by other admins, it may work.

Once we get a working economy with enough merchants on at all times, then I will stop spawning players the items they require.  I have been trying my best to get shops and the economy started up, so had Bobby, he even built a large trade building.  Azo, there is no economy yet because there aren't enough people playing as merchants to supply people.

I roleplayed as a miner and an architect in the village I created, however no matter how much wealth I aquired, what could I have done with it? There is no economy because people have no need for materials, food or rare items as admins can merely spawn these things for them. It is not a case of that you will set up an economy, and then stop spawning. It won't work unless you stop the spawning, and then start up the economy.

I'm an admin if theres a major problem PM and Ill get to the bottom of it

I'm not trying to be rude, so please forgive me if your offended. This is not a case of me having a personal problem which I have to discuss with someone. I put this on the forum because people are complaining about DEAP, I want the admins and players to understand other peoples points of view on the server, not just my own. Hence why I put this on the forums and left it open for discussion.

[Bl★ck Star]

To state it once again and to make it clear, I am Cloud87 and also when people ask me to spawn them stuff or tp them to someone I will gladly do so and if you guys have any problems with people or something on the MC server write me an pm.

[Zerrok]

Even if it is not, refer to earlier comments.

• DEAP has a huge ammount of members, rendering other factions near powerless.

Yup

• Admins attitude needs to change to be more friendly and neutral.

Nope

• Most admins are a part of DEAP, intimidating players.

Nope

• Admins generally feel they can do what they want without consequences, this needs to change.

I've got a suspicion who this is.

• Admins stick to closely together, making it extremely bias in situations.

Extremely Widespread, so don't just victimize yourself and say the DEAP is bad.

• Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

I disagree? Novarium is a very successful ally and we don't actually act against anyone.

• Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

No? Bobby spawns stuff constantly.

• Spawning materials also deminishes economy, making cirtain roleplay elements useless.

Your spelling is terrible.

Simply saying Nope doesn't change anything and is one of the problems. If you're attitude is like this nothing ever changes, really.

I, otherwise, disagree with your disagreements and believe most points listed to be quite valid.


Yes, his spelling has a few mistakes here and there but it's useless to comment on it, unless you wan't another point against his views.

Btw, just adding this in but the whole "admins feel like they can do what ever they like thing", you're kinda one of them. Not trying to be horrible but its obvious in how you portray your personality and what you do. If you're Porkins in the server then yes, although I don't know what kind of authority you have and I'm not one to suck up for it either.

About the sign thing. I come online to find one of my Faction members telling me about a sign in our village saying so and so This is now owned by DEAP. Right? No RP involved at all i'm clueless and abusive considering that only a admin could place it.

Now I don't know much about the spawning thing but I don't like to cheat. We built that entire village out of minerals completely gathered ourselves, that's a mining village, the back story is that we mined and worked together to get the resources and we found loads, we built it ourselves and started something new. For some admin to come into our village with no RP and put a sign down saying they own it? How is that fair in the slightest? No one has owned up to doing it yet but no one's bothered to address the problem either, such as "Lolwut?".

Now I love spawning things as much as the next guy does for "rp reasons" but so far my experience has been a huge group of DEAP members with their unlimited resources, mind you, building everywhere. They even surrounded the frontal area of my base with a giant wall, while OOCing "this is to remind you how close you are to DEAP" i.e, threat. Now sure, this is all OOC but it doesn't change anything, it's just intimidating. Why should I work at my village, my roleplay, etc etc if DEAP are just flying around on their steeds owning everything? I don't know but what i'm sure of is that i'm completely discouraged to participate in anything like that?

My friends even suggested joining them is the only solution, as well as a few players on the server I do not know through OOC. As much as I love this oppressive feeling towards playing on this server where admins own everything, generally act high and mighty and can do anything, I don't. Personally I prefer equal rights where players are equal, we have a economy and so on. At the moment its DEAP > Admins > Admin friends/suck ups/normal members > Everything else. Why even bother with resources or anything else when they have everything? The large amount of the server who are DEAP are pretty much struck out of the equation for economy and even though you grant spawning for other people, it's usually hard to obtain items or help with water, what ever. I don't know if people ask admins to spawn them 64 64 64 64 and so on stacks of what ever to build gigantic DEAP castles but I don't see it.

Anyway ranting is nice and all but this is how I feel. Excuse the more aggressive approach but i'm not going to lie or hold back anything, i'm not directly insulting anyone. From a new players perspective me and several friends and others have all said the same thing, including two being forced and feared into joining DEAP.

[RanmaChan]

About the sign thing. I come online to find one of my Faction members telling me about a sign in our village saying so and so This is now owned by DEAP. Right? No RP involved at all i'm clueless and abusive considering that only a admin could place it.

Now I don't know much about the spawning thing but I don't like to cheat. We built that entire village out of minerals completely gathered ourselves, that's a mining village, the back story is that we mined and worked together to get the resources and we found loads, we built it ourselves and started something new. For some admin to come into our village with no RP and put a sign down saying they own it? How is that fair in the slightest? No one has owned up to doing it yet but no one's bothered to address the problem either, such as "Lolwut?".

I am currently busy working, and will address both your post and Azo's response to me, but for now I am just going to focus on this.  I didn't know the sign had been placed until Azo posted about it.  I haven't heard of this once until now.  I did not do it. Spaceface, Portkins, Ralazo, and Blackstar are all not people who would do this sort of thing.  I started building in an area super far away from spawn, on a big island.  We don't want land outside of the place we have.

Now I love spawning things as much as the next guy does for "rp reasons" but so far my experience has been a huge group of DEAP members with their unlimited resources, mind you, building everywhere. They even surrounded the frontal area of my base with a giant wall, while OOCing "this is to remind you how close you are to DEAP" i.e, threat. Now sure, this is all OOC but it doesn't change anything, it's just intimidating. Why should I work at my village, my roleplay, etc etc if DEAP are just flying around on their steeds owning everything? I don't know but what i'm sure of is that i'm completely discouraged to participate in anything like that?

We did not surround the frontal area of your base with a big wall.  If you had paid attention to where you were building, you would have noticed the brige leading to our island, and the border station that was being built there.  In response to you building right beside us, when you could have built anywhere else, I continued to border station to include a wall between us.  I was originally only going to go in the opposite direction due to Turkey and his legion, but I decided it would be best to include a wall around the entire city.

You should work on building your village, and roleplaying, if you find that sort of thing fun.  Don't stop just because you are sad that a few admins are able to build something bigger or faster.  All the other factions (and Novarium up until now) have been building and RPing the exact same way as you.  You don't seem to understand that DEAP isn't going to get involved in your wars, the way you build your base, or the way you roleplay, unless you are breaking the rules, either IC or OOC.  While regular players are building their factions and RPing, we decided that we would like to build something fun, and see where we could take it, when not dealing with tons of problems.  In FalloutRP the server admins can spawn weapons, armor, ammunition, et cetera.  Do the Wastelanders go, aww, I don't want to play anymore cause I can't do it and I feel sad?  No, you play the way you are supposed to play while the Admins do their thing, as they are most likely going to use their powers for events or other relevent things, and the same goes here.

My friends even suggested joining them is the only solution, as well as a few players on the server I do not know through OOC. As much as I love this oppressive feeling towards playing on this server where admins own everything, generally act high and mighty and can do anything, I don't. Personally I prefer equal rights where players are equal, we have a economy and so on. At the moment its DEAP > Admins > Admin friends/suck ups/normal members > Everything else. Why even bother with resources or anything else when they have everything? The large amount of the server who are DEAP are pretty much struck out of the equation for economy and even though you grant spawning for other people, it's usually hard to obtain items or help with water, what ever. I don't know if people ask admins to spawn them 64 64 64 64 and so on stacks of what ever to build gigantic DEAP castles but I don't see it.

We don't own everything.  We have our island far away from spawn (and used to be everyone else until you moved in right beside us) and that is all we want.  We don't act high and mighty, I think you are generalizing a bit.  However, when you do most often see us is when we are dealing with some ignorant douchebag.  Don't think we act like that all the time.  You bother with resources and RPing, because that is the game.  I spawn water for people who ask for it, and oversee how they use it.  I spawn bones for people, and I spawn other items you cannot get ingame.

I have been trying forever to find people who are on a lot, and who will act as merchants to sell these items, and create an economy.  So far, no one has come forward, so I can't say to people who need something they can't get, here, wait until an unknown time when you can finally buy it.  No, we don't spawn people thousands of blocks for them to build with, you don't seem to understand that DEAP is not a regular faction like the rest.  You are player factions, you will be given the items that you require until such a time as there are merchants you can get them from legitimately.  You will all get your resources (that you can pick up off the ground like wood and stone) legitimately, because that is the game.

Anyway ranting is nice and all but this is how I feel. Excuse the more aggressive approach but i'm not going to lie or hold back anything, i'm not directly insulting anyone. From a new players perspective me and several friends and others have all said the same thing, including two being forced and feared into joining DEAP.

Being forced to join DEAP?  What?  Being afraid of DEAP so you join it?  What?  Are you retarded?  The way I am starting to see it is either you are willing to play the game and make a faction like everyone else, by actually playing the game, or you are lazy and you don't want to work hard so you join us.  However, the people I have seen join are people who have walked into the city, loved it, loved the roleplay, and loved the idea of the two factions, and wanted to join.

If you only joined because you were afraid of how well you would do otherwise, get OUT.  Go play the damn game.  Buiild your base, roleplay.  DEAP = a thing the admins put together to solve the problems we had on our last server, and a pet project to see if we could build a city, when we are not RPing or doing our admin duties.  Stop getting all sad because you can't spawn like us, because you are a part of the game, where we are in a place apart from it.

[RanmaChan]

Does Novarium not have an admin as the head of the faction? I am not talking about factions who can actually spawn what they like when they like and generally build what they want without consequences. I am talking from the point of view of normal players on the server who wish to roleplay in their own factions, yet cannot do so as they do not have enough power. Although it is the idea of DEAP to be a moderating power on the server, it gives them an unfair advantage over every other faction.

I don't see what you mean when you say "an unfair advantage over other factions" other then we are imposing enough for factions to go and sneak attack other factions without RP.  What exactly is our unfair advantage, other then spawning materials which can't normally be gained to build our city.  DEAP was created in a snowy area, with stone and half block blocks, to give it a particular style and look.  I am not going to cook all that cobble, sorry.  On the other hand, everyone, including Novarium who does have Bobby, are quite happy to use wood, cobble, and everything else available to them to build.  lorrek even takes pride in the fact that he built his camp with resources they gained, so what do you want exactly?  The game is you pick a spot, build a base, make a faction, and then roleplay.  Do it.

Extremely Widespread, so don't just victimize yourself and say the DEAP is bad.#
I am not merely victimising myself, I am speaking for alot of players on the server who may share my point of view, and other players who I know infact DO share my point of view.

The only people I have met up until now who have a problem with DEAP was Novarium, because they are second largest to use, and want to be more powerful.  That and I believe that half the time we are all joking around.  I wish you had spoke up in game before you reached your melting point enough to post this.

No? Bobby spawns stuff constantly.
Again, an admin owned faction. The point still stands that it's an unfair advantage to other players who would like to have their own factions, yet cannot do so due to lack of power.

I... Actually agree with this.  Originally, Bobby DID play by the rules, he never spawned anything, and he and the Legion had some fantastic RP.  The only people who spawned stuff until now was DEAP, because we didn't consider ourselves a part of your wars, UNLESS you started breaking the rules, which is WHY we build the United Factions.

    * Spawning materials is good in cirtain situations, however, only DEAP seems to do this, where other factions have to use the world for their resources.

Actually, I spawn things for people they can't get, which includes DEAP.  It is hard to get regular stone, half blocks, and the iron blocks we use to attain our style, so we spawn it.  Bobby spawns for Novarium, and I would spawn things for Turkey and his Legion, if I didn't hate him so much, lol.

If this is the case then admins should definately listen more when players are asking for resources, I spent a while building a town. I asked multiple times for building materials, yet I was ignored. It wasted time building the village when it could have been a shorter job with the help of an admin, yet they were either to busy roleplaying, argueing with players, or building their own buildings. If you wish to build your own citys with your powers, maybe the admins should pay a little more attention to players who actually could do with more help. Is this not one of the basic foundations when it comes to administration?

Again, we aren't going to spawn you wood, when you can walk 20 blocks away and cut down a tree, or dig through thee blocks of dirt to get stone.  I spawn things for people that they can't get, until such a time as we have enough merchants on who can sell these things legitimatey.  I am not gonig to spawn you cobblestone.  If I or another admin didn't see you asking for water, or bones, or anything else, then let us know later.  No one ignores you (well, I don't ignore anyone, can't speak for other admins) I am usually either helping/dealing with someone already, or minimzed/crashing due to the teleportation system, lol.

* Players feel they have no power compared to DEAP which is filled with Admins.

Players feel like that too when they wander around in HL2RP as Citizens, watching metrocops beat the shit out of people, or wandering around as Wastelanders in FalloutRP, and seeing a squad of Brotherhood Paladins walking around.  Once they join a faction, climb the ranks, and find their place, I am sure they won't feel so scared.

Yep, sure they do, infact I know because I have played HL2RP. However, if I recall in HL2RP it was fairly easy, if you were a good roleplayer and depending on the server, to join metrocops and beat the shit out of people. This is not the case when it comes to minecraft roleplay, in HL2RP you have mainly preset factions, Metrocops, Citizens ETC and it was extremely difficult to amass power against the metrocops unless you had a huge player base. Unlike HL2RP, it is much easier to create your own faction, and roleplay accordingly, however in my own expirience and again a few others, they feel as if making a faction will make you unfriendly with other factions. It can only be that either this is true, or, players are not given enough support to create new factions, it puts a kind of limit on roleplay experience. If you are going to have roleplay which lets you create new factions and have your own set of rules in that faction, then allow players to understand that they can do this without/or little consequences, likewise, if you are going to have major factions, make it so players have to stick to cirtain factions and are unable to create their own, as players who may wish to do so may feel as if there would be no possitives.

In respect to what you bring up, Minecraft is a different sort of RP system, there aren't two sides.  If you feel making a faction makes you feel disliked by the other factions, it is because in this game, some people just want to rule a lot of land, and you are seen as a threat.  I know that the Strayian Elves, New Avalon, the Earthen Brothers, and more all have no interest in that sort of thing, only peaceful co-existance, which is why I have been helping them out (like stopping the elves from all getting murdered).  If you are going to make a minning town, focused on industry, that wants people to join it so you can get bigger, then you are obviously going to come into conflict with factions like Novarium and the Consortium, who are pretty much the exact same thing.  The only reason DEAP acted hostile towards you, was because you built RIGHT beside us, when we weren't expecting it.  In all honestly, you *scared* us, yes, you did.

This is exactly like with the Brotherhood of Steel.  We would go out to scavenge for tech, and get yelled at for RPing incorrectly with Wastelanders.  Try to avoid that situation?  We stayed in the base, and got yelled at for saying in our base.  This is the same thing here.  One side wants one thing, another side wants another.  I am sorry, but I can't make things perfect (as much as I try with my OCD, lol)

I am not really asking you to make anything perfect, neither am I going to say that this is a major problem. Again, this is my own view point and view points of other players of how we feel when we are playing on the server. Some things just need to be changed slightly, like as I have suggested, only making admins able to create factions to balance the game out a little, or giving players who wish to create new factions the ability to use moderative commands for constructive roleplay purposes. Nothing major such as the ability to shut the server down ETC. It might be a good idea to make it so factions require an application form to create and owners of the faction are given powers. Of course, I do understand that this may lead to major abuse of powers, and possible minging, however with the right moderation on application forms, such as the ammount of time one has played on the server, how well they are trusted by other admins, it may work.

I see what you mean, but I don't think that only allowing actions to create factions is such a good idea, because it would take a lot of fun and diversity out of the game.  The only factions with Admins in them are DEAP, and Novarium, and as I keep trying to say, DEAP is doing its best to stay out of the way unless rules are broken.  It may be a good idea to ask Bobby to stop spawning again, so his faction can return to the way it was before, a level playing field.  Think of it like this, in FalloutRP, or HL2RP, the admins sit back, watch people RP, and hop in when the rules are broken.  Its the same thing here.  DEAP sits back, doesn't partake in your RP, until the rules are broken, in which case we have the might to step and say, enough if enough, cut it out.

Once we get a working economy with enough merchants on at all times, then I will stop spawning players the items they require.  I have been trying my best to get shops and the economy started up, so had Bobby, he even built a large trade building.  Azo, there is no economy yet because there aren't enough people playing as merchants to supply people.

I roleplayed as a miner and an architect in the village I created, however no matter how much wealth I aquired, what could I have done with it? There is no economy because people have no need for materials, food or rare items as admins can merely spawn these things for them. It is not a case of that you will set up an economy, and then stop spawning. It won't work unless you stop the spawning, and then start up the economy.

I see this the opposite way.  If we stop spawning things for people that they need, when there is no one there at all yet to supply them, then it is just going to hurt how their factions are developing.  I have been trying my hardest to get shopkeepers to sell rare/impossible to obtain goods, but the one I have is never on (tyler_gagnon) and the other left for a week or so.  Maybe that if we do stop spawning for people, it will create enough of a vacuum to force people to become merchants, but I never like to force people to RP or do what they don't want to do. (Shrimpit was another case, that was IC and I couldn't meta, but lets not go there, cause I let him go anyways lol.)

I'm an admin if theres a major problem PM and Ill get to the bottom of it

I'm not trying to be rude, so please forgive me if your offended. This is not a case of me having a personal problem which I have to discuss with someone. I put this on the forum because people are complaining about DEAP, I want the admins and players to understand other peoples points of view on the server, not just my own. Hence why I put this on the forums and left it open for discussion.

Don't worry, I will try to solve these problems that you are bringing up, an I have already been working on a few others before you brought them up here.  The reason why I don't close DEAP as a faction, is because then it will eventually dry up.  With a city as big as it is, it needs people to move in and start RPing.  If we close it, then eventually the population will decline until no one is left, and I don't want to see my own faction die, lol xD

[Raven776]

Just to add in my own experiences...

First of all, anyone with half a mind can mine out enough resources to make their town in a day... or ask a merchant for eighteen double chests of cobblestone because most of them give it for free. I've personally filled out a couple orders for solid stone... and it took me about half an hour with a number off working forges to do it. With the existing server economy, getting diamond is easy, and gold stains the streets so much I've almost began to wonder if I should knock down all my walls and rebuild with that instead. I've been here a week, by the way, and I have three people in my own faction I made without getting scared of admins.

I've talked to admins. Some of the nicer ones have offered to spawn me items if needed them (not much of a surprise to me that I really, really don't need them to) and I've only had one recruitment offer from DEAP.

I was approached at my house one time with a rather large offer from Novarium to join them (I can see why they'd want that. I'm a bit close to the town.) In RP, the offer was coarse and blunt, and I have no real interest in joining them or moving. Being as close as I am to their border, much as many people are complaining about the DEAP border, does it really seem that I won't run into more problems ICly or OOCly? I've already been told my dock was much too large in front of my house for the boat stationed there (I believe I remedied this shortly before novarium built a wall cutting off river access in the same direction my dock was from the ship. Just saying.)

I'm new here. Been here a week. I'm not afraid of admins, and a few of them are genuinely kind. I've got friends coming in here because of this, and the admins are kind to them too. We don't bullshit people much, and any problems we provide are accidents. In RP, admins are just other people. OOCly, they can spawn something.

And as I've said before, one admin has just as much power as ten of them. It's not like you can spawn more items if you have more admins... a single one can build a house out of diamond and fill it up with unguarded chests of string.

[Ralazo]

To state it once again and to make it clear, I am Cloud87 and also when people ask me to spawn them stuff or tp them to someone I will gladly do so and if you guys have any problems with people or something on the MC server write me an pm.

This.
If there is trouble, regarding ANYTHING come to Blackstar/Cloud87 OR me.
We will try to solve it.

I also would like to announce a few new rules, which will give Blackstar or me the ability to put certain penalties on operators/admins, incase of abuse or any other reason.
Ignoring these penalties can result in OP removal.

[Zerrok]

Well that was very nice of you to put. Although it was nice you said DEAP will never harm what ever if your not threatening them IC or breaking rules OOC, why was my village "claimed" by DEAP? Very worrying.

Besides, I wasn't the one who joined DEAP, I was merely pointing out that others around me were suggesting it as they had a problem with this or that. Don't call me retarded, i'm just laying out it there because i'm not going to lie, it was mentioned a lot and I feel that its a shared view. I don't care, if I have to join DEAP to avoid something or to gain something then I simply wouldn't play, unless there was some nice roleplay established behind it mind you.

[Azomatic]

To state it once again and to make it clear, I am Cloud87 and also when people ask me to spawn them stuff or tp them to someone I will gladly do so and if you guys have any problems with people or something on the MC server write me an pm.

I did, still haven't had a reply.