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We're currently thinking about making a Communist faction for the FoRP server.

Do you think this is a good idea/would you join this and actually adhere to communistic principles?

This society would actually run like a commune, meaning that everything would be shared. (Indeed this does mean that you will not be able to be "the bestest most awesomest power amor cladest asshole ever".)

A quick summary of the concept behind this. This idea is not very fleshed out at the present as Silver told me to come up with a bare bones concept for something to replace FRA and so I mused about it but nothing has been really set in stone yet.

Quote from: Me from the Admin Boards
Alright Silver asked me to think of a new idea for a major faction to replace the FRA and here is a log showing the bare bones of what I have come up with. What does everyone think? If you're too lazy to read this all basically this is a communist faction. This would put it at odds with the BoS (because they would see the BoS as hoarders not working for the betterment of the Wastelanders) and Enclave for rather obvious reasons. This would prevent any retarded major faction alliances so we don't fall into SRP Duty-Military syndrome. The Communist nature of the faction would prevent retarded practices the FRA was doing like taxing and torturing wastelanders and they would hopefully come together and cooperate against bandits/raiders and also against the other major factions. Being a major faction themselves, they would be armed with flags so they would have enough guns and men to put up a fight against the BoS and Enclave as opposed to having the player based groups which won't be equipped well enough to stand up.

More information is required, here is what I came up with:

Quote from: RanmaChan on 10-04-2011
The Marxist Communist society would have a single Speaker, not that he has any leadership powers other then directing the flow of conversation.  Every single person within that society would be able to voice their opinions and points as directed by the Speaker, and then a vote would be taken on what the course of action should be for that particular problem.  However, rather then just the regular, majority rules, you would then take the winning side and take ideas on compromises and modifications, to try to make that winning idea have an even greater and greater popular margin through multiple votes.

In order to create an actual Marxist Wastelander faction, you would need to have a solid group of people who really, REALLY, want it to work, and will be dedicated to making it work.  You need a Speaker, someone who will be on at all times, to be able to direct the conversation and flow of topics for what ever amount of citizens are around.  You would need your solid core of citizens who understand the goals of this society, and who want to make it work.  It would be hard to try to get regular Wastelanders to join and understand how things work, but it could eventually be done.

In terms of trading, and economy, Marx desired that no single person would be able to control a factory, or a business, or the flow of economics.  It would be the Soviets, or "worker councils" as it originally meant, that directed what a factory or business did, and what each worker made in terms of a living, and did at the place of work.  (Basically, a group of people own the factory in this case, the factory would be in charge of producing ballistic ammunition.  The workers would decide what type of ammunition they want to produce, [what is most needed in the society] and who would do what.)

For scavenging, you would basically have teams of a group of people with a designated speaker type figure, who would direct the actions of the group.  I.E, where to go, what to try to look for, what to keep and throw away, et cetera.  Each person would have free housing, each person would get free food, each person would get free water, and so on, AS LONG AS THEY DO SOMETHING.  From being in a scav team, to working in a "factory" to being a guard, to being a diplomat or trader to other groups.  Each person would do what they want to do, and if someone doesn't do something, anything, they are removed, as they are a parasite.

If something along the lines of this group did come about, and it actually did get really big and populated, the idea of "direct democracy" would be almost impossible due to both time restraints, and the amount of people.  The solution to this is to have the scav team take their elected speaker figure, and vote and fight for them.  The "factory" workers would also elect a speaker for their wants and needs, and he would vote and fight for them.  Its in a sense our democratic system, but the groups would be smaller, and the people being elected to vote actually care about what they are fighting for, because they have a share in that factory, or that scav group.

Again, food, guns, anything found would be distributed evenly to all the people.  People selected based on physical traits to be guards would of course be re-outfitted with better guns and more ammunition, but everyone should be equal in their right to defend themselves should something happen.  People who are wounded would receive a larger share of medical supplies, pregnant women would receive more food and water, et cetera.  There would be no trading within this group, no one needs to make money to buy things, as it is provided for them.  What they must do, is their job, so that they continue to receive food through others.  You know what I mean?

Of course there would be traders to other groups, as well as a possible elected diplomat core."

But..liberty prime hates communits,they will be in a big trouble :O-and i voted yes.

I voted yes this sounds like a good idea  :D

It's a pretty good idea,
but you would need somebody with knowledge of how Communism works before you get a Capitalist Communist party.

I voted yes, but I hope it doesn't turn into lolsocialism.

Quote from: Recreas on 12-04-2011
It's a pretty good idea,
but you would need somebody with knowledge of how Communism works before you get a Capitalist Communist party.

CommanderA has pledged his Communist blood

Politics is basically the only point we don't agree on; He's such a goddamn commie.

Well... hello there :3

Do it. Just do it. It'll be epic.

A communist society on a small scale not only could prove for interesting RP, it also creates an interesting mind experiment that I'd be happy to observe at the very least--see how you people operate, see if you can make it work right, or if you get a fascist leader who ruins everything! :D






Also, later, I plan to capture Liberty Prime's reaction on video. >:D Kira is a Capitalist through and through so she'll probably be standing on her roof to give Liberty Prime a high-five as he stomps past to vaporize the commies.

Better dead than red.

Guys it's not going to be called a communist society, just operate like one.

Looks like we've got support. Hmm.

Quote from: Plunger on 12-04-2011
Guys it's not going to be called a communist society, just operate like one.

Wait, they didn't realise that?

Its not like Carl Marx and Lenin were the first to discover Communism/socialism. Hell, the Pilgrims were communists if you look at the Mayflower Compact.

Well look at the poll Rago one of the options is join, but not be communist. It's only compared to a Communist Society not an actual communist society, you're scaring people away from the idea by calling it communist.

Quote from: Cutch on 12-04-2011
Its not like Carl Marx and Lenin were the first to discover Communism/socialism. Hell, the Pilgrims were communists if you look at the Mayflower Compact.

Karl* Marx

What the hell are you talking about?  The Mayflower Compact was a document that made sure people would agree to abide by the rules of the government they were about to create.

The group needs to be against the BoS, and one of the only ways to make sure this would come about would be to make the Wasteland faction its opposite.  Instead of hoarding everything they have, they would spread it about freely, in an actual communistic society, not a Stalinistic society.  Please, people, learn the difference between actual Communism and Stalinism.

Regardless, we have at least six people that want to join and would follow the rules, and eight that think it's a good idea but wont join.

Now if only those people that voted, would hop on the server enough to keep it alive.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 12-04-2011

Quote from: Cutch on 12-04-2011
Its not like Carl Marx and Lenin were the first to discover Communism/socialism. Hell, the Pilgrims were communists if you look at the Mayflower Compact.

Karl* Marx

What the hell are you talking about?  The Mayflower Compact was a document that made sure people would agree to abide by the rules of the government they were about to create.

The group needs to be against the BoS, and one of the only ways to make sure this would come about would be to make the Wasteland faction its opposite.  Instead of hoarding everything they have, they would spread it about freely, in an actual communistic society, not a Stalinistic society.  Please, people, learn the difference between actual Communism and Stalinism.

No, you're completely missing the point, the point is not to have a faction that is an enemy of the BoS, it's so that wastelanders will have an actual place to go, and roleplay. The idea is that this faction will leave the BoS and Enclave alone so the BoS, and Enclave can focus on each other. Not some more bullshit cannon fodder that the BoS keep asking for.

When we told the people that Steel Town was over people attempted to start building.

Though once BoS kicked Jakob out since they wanted the gas station until the teleporters are up, that attempt, died.

what teleporters

Something about having BoS use some sort of teleporters to act like their base is not under the gas station.

Like they walk through a door, and it pops them out a door inside a cave elsewhere.

All I am saying is this:

Creating a faction that roleplays in this fashion would both create an interesting and different type of RP, as well as create a surefire reason as to why they should not ally with any other faction.  Because of their humanistic tendencies, Wastelanders would be completely cared for.

The BoS is not asking for a cannon fodder faction, in fact, we keep arguing against any faction that would give us an IC reason to either ally or hate.  This faction would focus only on helping the Wastelanders, meaning they would be completely ignored by the BoS.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 12-04-2011

Quote from: Cutch on 12-04-2011
Its not like Carl Marx and Lenin were the first to discover Communism/socialism. Hell, the Pilgrims were communists if you look at the Mayflower Compact.

Karl* Marx

What the hell are you talking about?  The Mayflower Compact was a document that made sure people would agree to abide by the rules of the government they were about to create.

The group needs to be against the BoS, and one of the only ways to make sure this would come about would be to make the Wasteland faction its opposite.  Instead of hoarding everything they have, they would spread it about freely, in an actual communistic society, not a Stalinistic society.  Please, people, learn the difference between actual Communism and Stalinism.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 12-04-2011
All I am saying is this:

Creating a faction that roleplays in this fashion would both create an interesting and different type of RP, as well as create a surefire reason as to why they should not ally with any other faction.  Because of their humanistic tendencies, Wastelanders would be completely cared for.

The BoS is not asking for a cannon fodder faction, in fact, we keep arguing against any faction that would give us an IC reason to either ally or hate.  This faction would focus only on helping the Wastelanders, meaning they would be completely ignored by the BoS.

Make up your mind please.

I didn't mean it as in they should be against the Brotherhood so much they wish to attack it, or are hostile, I mean what I said afterward, they need to be the opposite of the BoS.  The BoS hordes what they have, this group needs to be open to the Wastelanders.

This sounds like its starting go a bit sour.

Thread shouldn't have been until proper backstory, and name were finished. Now everyone assumes the communists are going to be a faction, and no one wants to RP a communist in the Fallout setting. And it didn't help that even some admins who weren't in on it's creation are posting stuff like, "It is a very marcist faction that is completely communist", I.E. Ranma's entire backstory, which confuses the shit out of people, and makes this group seem like the next USSR when it isn't.

The group just works like how communism is supposed to work, which for some reason Ranma got completely wrong. Everyone has a job to keep the town running, and everyone has equal say. That's the plan, not Ranma's backstory of, "One speaker who decides!" bullshit.

Ranma you're backstory says it's a communist society, but you keep saying they elect leaders, and the leaders make the group decision, that is not communism.

Actually, according to the poll, eight people would be interested in doing just that, RPing a Communist in the Fallout setting.

And eleven say they wouldn't want to join it.  Last I checked eleven is higher then ten.

Where are you getting 13 from?

8 people say they would join it and RP in it.
2 people say they would join it, but wouldn't want it to be Communist.
8 Say they wouldn't join it, but believe it would be a good idea.
3 say that it wouldn't work.

18 people say they support it, 3 say they don't support it.  10(give or take the two possibly) say they would RP it, and 11 say they wouldn't RP it.  I see 13 here nowhere.  Overall, the idea has more support then it has detractors.

If it's advertised IC'ly on the server as a communist city then there would be a hell of a lot of persecution towards the group, as the communists before the war were being shot in the street, and was the most hated group in America.

But how many people other then the Enclave, BoS, and Vault Dwellers (all people in bunkers with computer databases), even know that the war was against China?  This is a post apocalyptic future nearly two hundred years later.  Hell, how many people would even care, considering they would be getting food, water, and shelter?

That, and China isn't actually Communist in either Fallout canon, or in our world today.  Regardless though, my point stands.  I doubt many people would be knowledgeable about the war.  I may be wrong though.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 12-04-2011
But how many people other then the Enclave, BoS, and Vault Dwellers (all people in bunkers with computer databases), even know that the war was against China?  This is a post apocalyptic future nearly two hundred years later.  Hell, how many people would even care, considering they would be getting food, water, and shelter?

That, and China isn't actually Communist in either Fallout canon, or in our world today.  Regardless though, my point stands.  I doubt many people would be knowledgeable about the war.  I may be wrong though.

Have you even played either Fallout game, there is more propaganda about hating the "Chinese Communist Pigs", then NPC's.

I have played all three Fallout games (1, 2, 3, and NV) and I don't really remember a lot of people talking about China at all.  Hell, in Fallout two the survivors of a Chinese Nuclear Submarine actually started up a thriving settlement in a Chinatown district (I can't remember the name of the city it was in at the moment) and they received no hostility or attacks, even being the descendants of the very people who had launched some of the nukes.

Edit:  Here is the wiki page on them, it was in San Francisco.  http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/San_Francisco (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/San_Francisco)

Mostly because the entire town are the communists, rarely do you see any foreigners in the town, probably because it gets sacked by Enclave, Super Mutants, and Raiders every other day. Fallout 3 even had Chinese Officers, and soldiers as enemies, they were still thinking ghouls, who went out of their way to try, and kill people. Not to mention communism is hailed as the cause of the nukes by most.

Actually, as I remember it, there were a lot of people living in the town, seeing as how it was the remains of San Fransisco as well.  Then counting traders, and migrating Wastelanders.  The city wasn't attacked by the Enclave, or Raiders.  The Enclave being too busy, and the Raiders being too weak.  Super mutants were only the remnants of Master's army, so they didn't play a large factor in that game at all.

Plus, those three factions attack anyone and everyone, whereas regular Wastelanders, and even the NCR and BoS left the city alone.  The BoS being the remains of the United States military would definitely know that China launched nukes against the USA, and they don't act hostile.

Yes, Fallout 3 had Chinese remnants, but I always thought of them as Easter Eggs, considering that you only find them in one or two places.  Take into account our area as well, we are in the middle of nowhere, those Chinese remnants were in the Capital of the United States.

I honestly don't think many Wastelanders would know China or "Communism" were the cause of the war.

First of all, it wouldn't be called a communist system. ICly, it wouldn't be called a communistic system. OOCly it would be.

It was just thought that a faction based on a system similar to communism could work.

Paint and I talked about that most people wouldn't know about communism and that Enclave would be the closes to thinking of calling it communism. It be similar to how vault's government systems would go. In a small sense.


EDIT:
I also wonder why this was posted this when the actual discussion for a faction has yet to go anywhere.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 12-04-2011
Actually, as I remember it, there were a lot of people living in the town, seeing as how it was the remains of San Fransisco as well.  Then counting traders, and migrating Wastelanders.  The city wasn't attacked by the Enclave, or Raiders.  The Enclave being too busy, and the Raiders being too weak.  Super mutants were only the remnants of Master's army, so they didn't play a large factor in that game at all.

Plus, those three factions attack anyone and everyone, whereas regular Wastelanders, and even the NCR and BoS left the city alone.  The BoS being the remains of the United States military would definitely know that China launched nukes against the USA, and they don't act hostile.

Yes, Fallout 3 had Chinese remnants, but I always thought of them as Easter Eggs, considering that you only find them in one or two places.  Take into account our area as well, we are in the middle of nowhere, those Chinese remnants were in the Capital of the United States.

I honestly don't think many Wastelanders would know China or "Communism" were the cause of the war.

A couple of things:

1.) Are you saying that Operation Anchorage, a DLC, was one big easter egg?
2.) The Chinese Assault Rifle, the Chinese Pistol, the Zhu-Rong v418 Chinese Pistol, the Chinese Commando Hat, the Chinese Army: Special Ops Training Manual, the Chinese Officer's Sword, and the Chinese Jumpsuit are all easter egg items?
3.) NCR discovered that the Chinese had tried to sabotage the Hoover Dam.
4.) Multiple terminals throughout the wasteland show that the Chinese as firing the first nuclear weapons.

1.  I already said the Brotherhood knew all about the Chinese, they don't care, and I doubt that they would go around telling Wastelanders.

2.  I am not saying that those items are Easter Eggs, but that the Chinese enemies were.  But how would people reach the conclusion that Chine started the war from the items around?  I bet that there would also be tons of Russian, Canadian, German, American Southern Confederate, items all around, et cetera.  You get my point.

3.  Thats the NCR, all the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over on the West coast.

4.  Yeah, but I doubt that regular Wastelanders know how to use those terminals.  The Lone Wanderer did because he was raised in a Vault, and regardless, those terminals were all in military complexes that very few Wastelanders would go in, and that were all the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over on the East coast.  We are in the middle of nowhere.

5.  ??

This isn't real life Ranma, everything is very exaggerated, most wastelanders can read, as seen by all the holotapes, and terminals in peoples houses. Chinese weaponry being so prevalent would definitely set off flags if the world was nuked. Ranma, you do know Kentucky isn't just some flat plain, it has military structures, that would have logs of the Chinese war, and people would have spread rumors about the Chinese.

In reply to your previous post you should know the BoS are just deserters of the US Army, the Enclave are the actual remains of the US Army. BoS just hop shipped, and hid in a fort, the Enclave was the shadow government behind the vaults, that basically ran America. Please read the faction backstories if you're going to co-lead one.

The BoS are the remains of the American military from one of the forts on the East coast, yes, and the Enclave are the remains of the American government.  If you want me to be excessively specific about everything in every post I make, I am sorry, that is impossible.  Plunger, you are just acting vindictive now, and I don't believe I deserve the be insulted in this manner.

If you truly believe that Wastelanders would know about China, Communism, and the history of the Great War, then we just do what Khorne said, don't refer to the society as Communist.  There you go.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 13-04-2011
The BoS are the remains of the American military from one of the forts on the East coast, yes, and the Enclave are the remains of the American government.  If you want me to be excessively specific about everything in every post I make, I am sorry, that is impossible.  Plunger, you are just acting vindictive now, and I don't believe I deserve the be insulted in this manner.

If you truly believe that Wastelanders would know about China, Communism, and the history of the Great War, then we just do what Khorne said, don't refer to the society as Communist.  There you go.

Disagreement =|= Personal Attack

The BoS deserted before the bombs even fell in 2077.

Ranma dude please read up on your Fallout cannon here is the wiki link to the brotherhood all you have to do is click scroll and read.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel)

I don't understand, how does me saying they are the remains of some of the US Army, still not make sense even if they deserted slightly beforehand?  They were trained soldiers from the United States Army, and were some of the only ones to survive.

Quote from: Plunger on 13-04-2011
Please read the faction backstories if you're going to co-lead one.

That is completely unnecessary.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 13-04-2011
I don't understand, how does me saying they are the remains of some of the US Army, still not make sense even if they deserted beforehand?

Quote from: Plunger on 13-04-2011
Please read the faction backstories if you're going to co-lead one.

That is completely unnecessary.

Considering I took the time to write it you could at least take the time to read it.

Wow, are you seriously going to use a little technicality like that?  They still originated from the US Army.

Regardless, this is far, far off topic now.

Quote from: RanmaChan on 13-04-2011
Wow, are you seriously going to use a little technicality like that?  They still originated from the US Army.

Regardless, this is far, far off topic now.

Obviously then the A-Team are the remnants of the US army as well, I mean they originated from it.

Can you guys discus this in SF? Because really I don't care that much about you guys opinion over the U.S Army.

So stick to the topic and just write down why you'd like or dislike this idea.

Plunger at first it was helpful, now it is just trolling. Shut up and stop trying to get a rise out of him. EVERYONE can tell that is what you are doing.

As for why there is no detailed backstory yet the point of this was to see what the forum users though before I spent a long time drawing up plans for a faction no one would like. This isn't the only option to replace FRA it just seemed like the Communist spin would be helpful in ensuring this faction didn't ally with the BoS or Enclave and also, like Anton said, would attract wastelanders by providing them shelter and food for free/cheap and a more cooperative overall society.

Quote from: Paintcheck on 13-04-2011
Plunger at first it was helpful, now it is just trolling. Shut up and stop trying to get a rise out of him. EVERYONE can tell that is what you are doing.

As for why there is no detailed backstory yet the point of this was to see what the forum users though before I spent a long time drawing up plans for a faction no one would like. This isn't the only option to replace FRA it just seemed like the Communist spin would be helpful in ensuring this faction didn't ally with the BoS or Enclave and also, like Anton said, would attract wastelanders by providing them shelter and food for free/cheap and a more cooperative overall society.

Yea, I've been trying to attract people to my town lately. To slightly replace the FRA for the time being.
I mostly offer housing to people and in return they work for me. They either scavange or do some easy work for me. Sometimes they pay in caps. For the rest it's mostly trading and holding of angry raiders.

Well one of the other options is to make one of the big wastelander groups into a major faction (so they get gear and a paycheck and shit). The only issue with that is a lot of the Still Water folk were butt buddies with the BoS so that's why we were mostly thinking about making a new faction.

I might start handing out missions on my waster.

Quote from: Paintcheck on 13-04-2011
Well one of the other options is to make one of the big wastelander groups into a major faction (so they get gear and a paycheck and shit). The only issue with that is a lot of the Still Water folk were butt buddies with the BoS so that's why we were mostly thinking about making a new faction.

I'd love to make Kira's Karbines into a full fledged faction. :P But I only hire like a handful of mercenaries to protect Kira. No other salesman. The faction is too small for me to try turning it into a 'major' faction, though the paycheck bonus would save me the trouble of paying the mercenaries myself.

Quote from: Spades_Neil on 13-04-2011

Quote from: Paintcheck on 13-04-2011
Well one of the other options is to make one of the big wastelander groups into a major faction (so they get gear and a paycheck and shit). The only issue with that is a lot of the Still Water folk were butt buddies with the BoS so that's why we were mostly thinking about making a new faction.

I'd love to make Kira's Karbines into a full fledged faction. :P But I only hire like a handful of mercenaries to protect Kira. No other salesman. The faction is too small for me to try turning it into a 'major' faction, though the paycheck bonus would save me the trouble of paying the mercenaries myself.

You just completely missed the point of a major faction. It's not so you can money farm harder.

Point is to draw Wasters to a faction so they can actually passive, make caps, instead of being used as a meat shield for the other factions.

Quote from: Paintcheck on 13-04-2011
Well one of the other options is to make one of the big wastelander groups into a major faction (so they get gear and a paycheck and shit). The only issue with that is a lot of the Still Water folk were butt buddies with the BoS so that's why we were mostly thinking about making a new faction.

Butt buddies with the BoS? Not in the slightest, atleast most of us aren't. Maybe one or two citizens that found residence in the town but I think 8/10 (I actually think my population count is about that) is not caring about the BoS.

Poll closed.

Thanks for participating, I now know what kind of faction/backstory is going to be forged.