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Making Character Stats Useful

Khorn · 6803

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Khorn

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Hey, look another ideas thread.

This is an idea to make your Character's stats useful for a new form of BOTH Combat and Passive RP!

Yes, you read right, this idea, could open a new world of a CHOICE in combat and passive RP.

And if you act now, you can help this idea move along!



Now, you may ask, why? Why is this anything special?

Well, sir, if you played DnD you would know how the stats work and effect both combat and other roleplay in the game.
This idea is a simpler form of the Basic Stats of DnD characters.

We would replace whatever is listed on the stats page with the Basic.
And, the /roll would become a 1-20 dice roll.


BASIC STATS
STR(Strength)
CON(Constitution)
DEX(Dexterity)
INT(Intelligence)
CHA(Charisma)
WIS(Wisdom)



Now, in order to make these stats work.


Each Faction/Flag/Group(ie. Raider, Super Mutant, Deathclaw, etc...) Would have set Stats.

Example

A Super Mutant would have something along the lines of;
STR +5
CON +5
DEX +1
INT -4
CHA -6
WIS -6

You get it? He would be tough as nails, but dumb as a rock and just as persuasive as a rock, talkative wise. He be better off intimidating with STR then using his linguistics CHA to convince others.

Wasterlands though, the back bone of FRP, would have Set Stats too. But it be a lot more equal than the last group.

STR +2
CON +2
DEX +2
INT +1
CHA +2
WIS +1


So, you get that each faction/group/flag gets a set Stat now, right?


Now you may ask, how does this help FRP?


Combat RP!

Combat
In DnD, it has a very simple system.
You first attempt to hit with an attack. Next, you see how much damage you deal.

What you would do, is /roll with addition to your Dexterity.

The one being attack would, if they wish, is roll for an evade/dodge by /roll + a Reflex save, which would be your Dex.


So, a (Attacker's)/roll + Dex to hit, needs to beat a (Defender's)/roll + Dex.


Now, if you managed to hit the player, you would need to /roll + STR to deal damage.
(Note, at this point in time, this idea would not be able to work unless STR effected the weapons carried in FRP)
Instead, we will go with a new idea. STILL A WIP.

You could strike the man with your weapon according to STR. Perhaps.

You have a STR +3, you may hit the other player 3 times.



Critical!

If, a player rolls a 20, it would be a critical hit. Meaning, the player would basically hurt you bad.
So, in a form, you could hit the player once more.

If, a player rolls a 1, their action fails, and can have terrible outcomes on the roller.
An attacker would hurt themselves. A Defender would most likely trip or stumble.


Passive RP!


Skills!
The main, and more useful Skills in the Fallout Universe would be brought in, and put under a Basic Stat.

Medical knowlegde would be under INT.
Lockpick under DEX.
Steal under DEX.

And so on.

In order to use them in Passive RP. One would /me what they wish to attempt. The do a /roll and add the Stat related to the action.
The player they do this against would roll against it with a simple /roll.
And during Admin Events, the admin would do the /roll.



Extra!

Now, currently, the idea for Stats is to keep them static. Due to risk of player's finding exploits to grind up.
Ideas have been suggested in order to let players improve their Stats and Skills.
Admin controlled leveling, mainly comes to mind.

Other ways would be through certain items on the server.
A book, could increase your skills, while armor boosts your Stats.


Lastly, in order to keep wasters and other characters somewhat different. Players would have a Max of 3 or 4 points to move around in their Stats. In order to make a character different from others.



Again, basic idea is to add new form of combat and passive RP. Make those stats useful for once.
This form of RP would and could curb power gaming due to the fact it would be based on dice rolls.

Which is what DnD is based around. It would bring back RP for those that want to RP in a fair way.


I would like if Spades, Pink, Caso, and Paint would respond, as I talked to them first about this and they all had a general positive look on it.

And those with any DnD experience, please share your point on this.


Don't let those Character Stats go to waste to hopping minges!



jaik

Reply #1 on: 09-01-2012
too much will need to be scripted, which makes the whole theme pointless because initially post apoc isn't an rpg, but a serious mix of survival and feelings rp and uh, this is quite silly too.

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Reply #2 on: 10-01-2012
Yea I figured you pop in and say something negative.


Oh well. I just want to see stats either fixed or remove as it's worthless in it's current state.

And since /roll ing anything is extremely pointless unless it's for a completely random event.



jaik

Reply #3 on: 10-01-2012
/roll shouldn't even be allowed in rp(especially if it's based on a stat variable), because there's no 'luck' IRL, if you get what i mean.

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Reply #4 on: 10-01-2012
You also forget that the ingame /roll is on a 100-sided set of dice.




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Reply #5 on: 10-01-2012
I majorly dislike the way that has been done in attacking, it does not bring in armour at all. In DnD it is a roll of your 1d20+BaB(Base Attack Bonus)+Str to hit (or dex if you are using a certain feat or ranged weapon) against the targets AC which is 10+natural+size+AC+dex+dodge+any other modifers. If we are to do a systme where you roll against the attackers, I suggest either doing it the DnD way in which it has a base of 10+any naturual species defense+their size(harder to hit the smaller they are)+their dex+their armour+any other modifers or doing it in which it is a roll of 1d20+armour+dex+size+natural. Their size, natural armour and artificial armour has to come into this else it will just be you will have to have a high dex to have a good chance of dodging.

Also, STR to hit, not DEX -- unless ranged or a rapier with the feat that makes it DEX.

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Reply #6 on: 10-01-2012
This idea is old to be frank, i have thought about doing this before myself. It would not be "overally" hard and as for different types of dice (6 sided) that's easy to do. The main issue is all the elements needed for the final effect. The real question is, is this what people really want? Instead of being able to physically shoot\swing the weapon?

Sure enough this would justify alot of unbalanced combat situations that are done through roleplay, i for one prefer no roleplay in combat, that's me.

Stats already jusify hands and how much damage you do with them according to your strength, i also coded it in to justify how effective stimpacks are by your medicine skill but i never got around to doing anything major with it.

There's lots that can be done to make a solid rpg like combat experience while maintaining roleplay, it's just a way to justify the characters capabilities.

One thing i could do is make a pvp\rp status so people can change if they are in combat or not. If they are they get damaged and if they are not they can't be hurt. But i doubt it would work on frp.


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Reply #7 on: 10-01-2012
This idea is old to be frank, i have thought about doing this before myself. It would not be "overally" hard and as for different types of dice (6 sided) that's easy to do. The main issue is all the elements needed for the final effect. The real question is, is this what people really want? Instead of being able to physically shoot\swing the weapon?

Sure enough this would justify alot of unbalanced combat situations that are done through roleplay, i for one prefer no roleplay in combat, that's me.

Stats already jusify hands and how much damage you do with them according to your strength, i also coded it in to justify how effective stimpacks are by your medicine skill but i never got around to doing anything major with it.

There's lots that can be done to make a solid rpg like combat experience while maintaining roleplay, it's just a way to justify the characters capabilities.

One thing i could do is make a pvp\rp status so people can change if they are in combat or not. If they are they get damaged and if they are not they can't be hurt. But i doubt it would work on frp.
I like the idea personaly as you could shoot them and if you hit them they injury rp instead of shooting to miss. Also it will stop random minges STking you out of no where




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Reply #8 on: 10-01-2012
Just to restate what I said a few times. This would not replace our current choices for combat.

It be a new way for people who have played DnD and enjoy that form of play.


@ Jake, I do believe the /roll as of none is extremely pointless, which is why it would become a d20. And as with DnD, the roll would be affected by your stats.
It would be luck, but you have a better advantage performing a task which your character is more suited toward.

This would incorporate almost any task a player can do, from simply punching players, to sneaking about, or trying to fix a gun. As in DnD, most things a player can do can be rolled out to see if they succeed. But that depends if the DM wants them to roll for whatever they do.
It would be a player's choice in events they do amongst each other. And it would be the DM(admin's) choice if they wanted to use it in an event.

@Steven The current dice is actually d101 as it's between 0 to 100. I would ask for it to be replaced by a standard d20.

@Wolf You use Dexterity to see if you hit someone first. Strength to see how much damage is dealt. A hulk of a man which can barely move, should not be able to hit a tiny man, but if he does, the tiny man would die. That hulk of a man would have a high STR, low DEX. The tiny man would have high DEX, low STR.

And also I wish to make it a simpler system based on the most basic of stats. Which could be affected by armor and such. The stats would have a set area depending on the flag of your character.

@ Exile I'm not surprised it hasn't been thought up before. And other dice are not fully needed, as I was trying to make this a NEW and simple choice for RP + Stat based combat. A new form that would not affect the other forms of combat. Such as the regular, STK or the /me fight. The problem with STKing, it depends on who's a better FPS player generally, while the /me fight can have people powergame to an extent. As no one really wants to lose a fight in /me. At least, most would try to win however they can.
If you so choose, you can stick to the regular combat of any form.
As for the hands thing. Most player's in FRP never bother using their fists, as it is certain death. Rarely will a player want to fist fight. As for medication, a lot of players don't bother to use it, even with regeneration off.

As for the last bit, it seems like it might be a bad idea, if a player can essentially turn 'god mode' on. Some may use it for how it should be, but others could use it for other reasons.



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Reply #9 on: 10-01-2012
Going by what I have had in many, many experiences of DnD, it is STR to roll to hit and damage. It is only DEX to hit if you take the feat that makes it so or if it is a ranged weapon. A bulk of a man will slam his weapon on the ground in front of him hard, and therefore fast, and hitting. I am not sure if it is different in 4e, but in 3e, 3.5 and Pathfinder it is definetly STR to hit and damage.

Unless you're going on and making your own rules on the matter and am saying that DnD is DEX to hit, the above.

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Reply #10 on: 10-01-2012
Thing is, if you make STR the main way to hit anyone, everyone will pour what points they got into it without thought.

Making DEX required to hit, or at least be able to hit more often will make people try to focus on other stats.



Basically, people that never played an RP would toss anything into STR and thus making DEX more useless.



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Reply #11 on: 11-01-2012
Thing is, if you make STR the main way to hit anyone, everyone will pour what points they got into it without thought.

Making DEX required to hit, or at least be able to hit more often will make people try to focus on other stats.



Basically, people that never played an RP would toss anything into STR and thus making DEX more useless.

But if you make DEX how it should be, to dodge, then there is a great reason to pump it into that too. You may have a lower chance to hit others, but they have a lower chance to hit you too. Or you can do the smart thing and evenly spread them out.

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Reply #12 on: 11-01-2012
Thats also why I suggest to keep stats at a set level. As players can't be fully trust to apply them correctly.

Each Faction/Flag has their stats set. And at this time, only armor would change stats, and very slightly.



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Reply #13 on: 15-01-2012
Just no.

Khorn, I've been over this with you. This is a roleplaying server. Not a roleplaying game. It's rather hypocritical--nigh, impossible--to argue about how badly people roleplay when we treat the roleplay server instead as a roleplaying game.

This is not a competition. These stats serve no purpose but to make it one. It sounds like a good idea in concept, but it just won't work.

too much will need to be scripted, which makes the whole theme pointless because initially post apoc isn't an rpg, but a serious mix of survival and feelings rp and uh, this is quite silly too.

For once I completely agree with Jake.



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Reply #14 on: 15-01-2012
User was forumstruck for this post.
« Last Edit: 15-01-2012 by Spades_Neil »



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Reply #15 on: 15-01-2012
Just no.

Khorn, I've been over this with you. This is a roleplaying server. Not a roleplaying game. It's rather hypocritical--nigh, impossible--to argue about how badly people roleplay when we treat the roleplay server instead as a roleplaying game.

This is not a competition. These stats serve no purpose but to make it one. It sounds like a good idea in concept, but it just won't work.

too much will need to be scripted, which makes the whole theme pointless because initially post apoc isn't an rpg, but a serious mix of survival and feelings rp and uh, this is quite silly too.

For once I completely agree with Jake.

Well, honestly, you never responded much back on it. And yes, it is an RP Server, but it is a server with stats and a roll system, meaning they can be used.
As such, as of now, they are useless. I have seen many people try to settle an attempt in /me RP with the /roll. And if one person should have the upper hand in a situation, the tables not only turn, but completely flip on them, resulting in a bizarre result. And then people curse the /roll system for being annoyingly 'random'.

And I was not arguing in anyway about how badly people roleplay. I simply am suggesting a new form of RP for those that wish to use it.

And it won't be able to be a competition, since the stats wouldn't even change. So anyone attempting to 'level up' would simply be wasting their time.

And it has worked before, just play a table RP game. Majority use stats and rolls. And this is based on it.




And as for Jake, it would take time to script, I assumed that, which is why I never said it must be done. Just suggesting it and trying to discuss it.

But when people like Skybroke post in the thread with useless videos, since he apparently can't convey a message on his own, make this discussion go nowhere.



jaik

Reply #16 on: 15-01-2012
And it has worked before, just play a table RP game. Majority use stats and rolls. And this is based on it.

This, is your problem.

Garry's Mod RP is not essentially for character development, NO MATTER how hard you try to push it into playerbase's head you will never achieve a complete environment with people that wish the same. If you really think that it will work somehow, I suggest you to reconsider your administrator position before moving on. Your typical player wants a gun and a piece of armor to have an excuse to avoid wounds if he gets shots in STK or STRP and the weapon to have an equal chance, because it doesn't really matter what fire-arm do you have as long as it fires these little deadly things they call bullets. Think of it more as an abstract system from a player's point of view, items and stats aren't for character development, they're rewards for players that need them -- that is, if you seek items BEFORE character development, but not the way around then you're not 'roleplaying', you're just wasting your time.
« Last Edit: 15-01-2012 by Jake »

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Reply #17 on: 15-01-2012
But when people like Skybroke post in the thread with useless videos, since he apparently can't convey a message on his own, make this discussion go nowhere.

You're only half right. Skybroke's post was removed for trolling. Jake on the other hand... this... this is actual critique for once.



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Reply #18 on: 15-01-2012
I understand what you say, but what I would like to know, is how, an idea that is supposed to add a new form, that in no way affects current forms of RP that currently are in the script, will affect how people play, when in no way or form this idea will be forced, or affect what is already in place.

Again, this is an idea to allow players that enjoy a more stat based RP to find a new way to play it out.
If others wish to stick to the current systems in place, then all is fine, but every now and then, players could try out RP in a new form and see how it goes.

Like I have been trying to say, I am not pushing for this to be put in and replace what we have. I have yet to say it should be in and be enforced. I simply am suggesting an idea to give players a different, but familiar taste in RP. Not everyone in Gmod is little kid playing to get guns and gear. But yes, most are, occasionally a similar mind will come along.

This idea would not replace anything, it will not affect anything already currently in place, and lastly would never be forced on players as it would be a choice on their part. If both, or all parties can't agree to use this form of RP than it would be defaulted back to the original and current system.

Items are rewards, yes, and stats could be rewards, if we could allow them to be improved on. But as of now, the STATS would be SET to a DEFAULT state, which would make any attempt to raise it pointless on the player part, which would negate any 'reward' feeling they would receive, as if they were rewarded an item.



Again, this idea, and these Stats would have no affect on anything. At all. Players would still be able to run, jump, punch and heal the same as always. But if they chose to RP on these RP servers we play, then they could any of our current ways to RP.
This would be simply opening a new door for new people to enjoy.


And as a sort of added bonus, if this was implemented, I'm sure it would make HGN's script stand out more so than other RP server scripts. As it would have a new system in play. And that could make HGN stand out, for better or worse, depending on your outlook on things.



And lastly, I hope to say, I am simply trying to debate my idea. The fact a few people have already stated that I am attempting to Force this on people, are overstepping themselves. I continue to RP the same way as anyone else on the server in whatever form they wish. I always let the players make their own choices.
But occasionally, we will come to an agreement to use /roll to see who manages to do what. As long as what each player is attempting to do, is seemingly possible.

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|HGN-FOSV| Spades Neil:
I'm just going to make it brief and leave it at this. Point is, my opinion is it's stupid really to have stats that people can just pick and choose what they want--when they don't need to know jack about any of the "skills" these points are for. It's all a matter of dice and luck, and no actual roleplaying ability. Then it's an RPG. You become disconnected from the character and reliant on the numbers.

Recent SF chat, and since he wishes to do other at this point, I will respond here.

First off, the pick and choose, line. I assume you think that players at some point at character creation would choose stats. We had it once, we removed it. As for this idea, we wouldn't let a player pick and choose. They would be set to a default stat dependent on the flag or faction they are in.

As for the skills they need to know nothing about. If a player attempted to do an action requiring knowledge of a skill, they would still need to /me it out in order to use it. It would be required, as it would make no sense for a player to try to take action on something they have no knowledge. As of currently, a player must use knowledge to Passive RP with /me. A player wouldn't be able to go around doctoring players by simply /roll. They would still require knowledge on their part, and would need to Roleplay it out for others.

I assume Spades hasn't played DnD before, but in all campaigns I have played, all the DMs require the player to actually say what they are doing, if they can actually do it. Not every player walks up to a locked door and rolls for their thievery skill. Those that know how will, those that can't, would try something else, as in breaking the door down.

Though I see that, if it is what I am thinking. You fear a player would simply say "/me attempts to heal you from death" /roll.

If that is the problem, then what stops them from doing that already on the server?
« Last Edit: 15-01-2012 by Khorn »



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Reply #19 on: 16-01-2012
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As for this idea, we wouldn't let a player pick and choose. They would be set to a default stat dependent on the flag or faction they are in.
  But then that means no one is uniqe and only the same due to there faction/class.  And lets face it, take a death claw for example and a Super mutant, both would have a strengh of 10 (+5) which wouldnt make sence because a Death Claw would just as the name implies claw his arse.  But this doesnt just determine the outcome in a fight, this determines passive roleplay in the town, if everyone is bound by character states and say for example have the same logic, charisma etc, how can you expect to engage in immersive roleplay, let alone a much diffrent enviroment?  What if you are a naturally good shot in character but dont have Dex or Luck as +5 but a diffrent character who has a diffrent flag is bound to have higher of those?  The roleplay is not roleplay anymore but a roleplaying game provided with mulitple characters who are clones.
Lets not forget another problem with this, how could you expect new players to even obey by this or understand it?
The dice system in Fallout was designed for one way chat dialog and combat but this is roleplay BASED off fallout, theres no one way dialog or roll system designed for hits and dmg's so adding this would just simply cause a mess and be of no value to passive roleplay or combat, but instead provode combat wise annoyance as well a the same ol' crap in passive.
 
(I hope that somewhat made sence.)



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Reply #20 on: 16-01-2012
Or you could set your stats to 1 Intelligence and RP a genius. Just sayin'

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Reply #21 on: 16-01-2012
Or you could set your stats to 1 Intelligence and RP a genius. Just sayin'

If the states are already set for factions, you wouldnt be setting the states now would ya'?



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Reply #22 on: 16-01-2012
Which is why as I suggested before, to allow diversity amongst players to be able to change a few points around.

And if that wouldn't work, than it could be potentially controlled through high ranked admins that agree such stats should be set for your character.


Now, to post something I was just thinking about.
In a way, this idea could be tested out on the server, as soon as the new dice commands are put into script, as the Silver had added some recently.

All that would be needed to get this idea tested, is for the new commands and an agreed default state for stats, as agreed by the testing group. After that, the group was can test out different scenarios with the stats and dice.

After tweaking the stats and what they would be used for, the next part could be adding a way for players to see stats of other players, such as a new description bar,  one that displays their stats, or the defaulted stats.



The only thing needed for this idea to work is something to show player stats(To keep honesty between players) and the dice commands.

If the test goes well,  and people enjoy it enough, than we could think of a way to let players be more divers, note not better overall, but diverse. EX. Take a point of STR and put it in INT. Something a docotr or scribe  would do.


And again, this would not be forced on players to obey, new players can stick to /me or STK.

Again, no one would be forced to use the stats or dice, nor would it have any effect on what is in the server.


It is simply a dice command and a new display for players to see.



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Reply #23 on: 17-01-2012
Hmm... Maybe there should be a system for bartering with traders. You know with speech and all.

I had my second chance and I selfishly blew it for petty revenge on people who didn't even deserve it. I abused Exile's trust in me and now I'm banned forever. :(


jaik

Reply #24 on: 17-01-2012
Hmm... Maybe there should be a system for bartering with traders. You know with speech and all.

yeah and the traders should be npcs

Blake.H: And im also working on whipping him into shape
Blake.H: He's nice
Blake.H: He doesn't moan
Blake.H: The sheer obedience is enough to fuel my erection anyway


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