SRP's Lack of SMG's

Started by KillSlim, 15-12-2009

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Lucidius

#25
Canon = to the games.

Last I checked oblivion lost != STALKER: ShoC, CS, or CoP, so my point is still valid.

My other point, of which was "we should discuess what could be CONSIDERED canon", is still up for debate. Again I agree the TMP would probably be importable by Freedom, but not the MP9.

Also, it'de be common sense to say the AK-47 would be easily accessible in the zone. When your talking about LOLSTRICTCANON, common sense doesn't apply, it's what ever is done originally.

This non-sense aside, I agree that the AK-47 and most Warsaw Pact weapons should be implemented, for fucking obviously raesons.

I'de love to see a Vityaz, and an M76 though.




Also believe the SKS should be in here aswell, seeing as how they are super easy to import everywhere (i've seen em for 100 CAD a few years back).



I know how you feel jackel, when I first played STALKER I was expecting all Warsaw Pact weapons, and then it was all, LAWLZ LR300 IS MORE EXPENSIVE SO IT'S BETTER THEN CHEAP WARSAW WEAPONS

/thread.

I'de say most of the custom weapons at this point listed on the STALKER D20 page would be good candidates. (I should work on this today!)
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Locke

I would love an SKS, it would make for some fun firefights.

Fluffy

Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 17-12-2009
I would love an SKS, it would make for some fun firefights.

Freedom + High + SKS + LR300 = Fun.

deluxulous

Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 16-12-2009
We should have a weapon system, with the new skill system.

Rank up\Level up over time to use better/different weapons.

pistols < shotguns < smgs < rifles < scoped rifles < doom weapons.

No offense, but I think that's a terrible idea.

It would be just like Call of Duty. Unbalanced as shit. People that have been playing for a long time will always have an advantage over newer players, or even players that just don't get on as much. People can metagame, and it just wouldn't be very fun.

Fluffy

Quote from: PistolKid on 18-12-2009
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 16-12-2009
We should have a weapon system, with the new skill system.

Rank up\Level up over time to use better/different weapons.

pistols < shotguns < smgs < rifles < scoped rifles < doom weapons.

No offense, but I think that's a terrible idea.

It would be just like Call of Duty. Unbalanced as shit. People that have been playing for a long time will always have an advantage over newer players, or even players that just don't get on as much. People can metagame, and it just wouldn't be very fun.

You lost me.

Goose

He is basicly saying that it would become an unserious RP you cant RP with stats people would just RDM to get their stats up giving them an advantage
~"Victory isn't sweet, Victory is the absence of the taste of fear and stench of death"


Paintcheck

Quote from: Goose on 19-12-2009
He is basicly saying that it would become an unserious RP you cant RP with stats people would just RDM to get their stats up giving them an advantage

QFT. Stats suck and fail. In my opinion if you can RP it, then don't code it. It would take Silver a very long time to code something like that which doesn't make any sense since there's already a bunch of more pressing issues he's devoting his time to as it is. It would cause people to DM for stat points and it would chase away newbies who wouldn't have stats and would get DM'd thousands of times since they are easy prey. RP DOES NOT EQUAL RPG, can it with the stats and exp talk. That shit will only cause problems as well as being needlessly difficult to keep track of and code.

As for SMGs, it seems to me that most STALKERs would probably forgo them for assault rifles. The Zone is a big place, most engagements happen at pretty long distances. Even the most accurate SMG out there has trouble at 50+ meters. That and the pistol caliber SMG bullets lose a lot of the energy past that range. Since almost everyone in STALKER walks around wearing some kind of armor that makes SMGs useless at range and just extra weight. If I was personally in the Zone I would stick with an Assault Rifle for its balance. How many of you used multiple guns in STALKER SoC or Clear Sky? I bet not many because SMGs and pistols weighed a lot and didn't confer any advantage to an assault rifle. I know I stopped carrying two weapons about the time I grabbed my first AK74. That weight is much better devoted to ammo. I know we don't have a weight system in game but just being realistic I doubt I would lug around an MP9 or MAC 10  (which are next to useless past like 30 meters due to their short barrels and high rof) when I could just hang onto my trusty AK74/LR300/G36/VSS etc.

Also since most SMGs would probably be balanced in a similar way that means very few players would use them since assault rifles are better in every way in game. So it would add work to whoever codes the guns (although it sounds like that isn't too hard) and wouldn't result in all that much use.

I guess CQB makes sense because there are a bunch of tight spaces that STALKERs explore, but again since STALKERs cannot exactly walk around with a whole armory on their back (although lots of players do because they don't like being realisitc...the dicks) I believe that the average STALKER would find a decent assault rifle and stick with it.

KillSlim

You only see the bad points. Inaccurate, relatively unreliable, close range.
Not ALL fights happen at 200 Yards, I often encounter close-combat foes in Stalker and Close-combat opportunities for an SMG in SRP in places like camp sights or establishments; like the train yard in Srp_Chernobyl.

Good points of these SMG's:
Cheap / Inexpensive
Very Effective at close-medium range / Accurate at close-medium range
Very high rate of fire
Small and Concealable
Durable
Selection of Firing Modes (Single, triple, full)
Cheap / Common Ammunition. Interchangeable with Pistol ammo.

Bad points:
Ineffective at long range (Why the fuck would you use one at long range anyway)
Weak against against Highly armoured targets
"Yes, we will be changed and we will march with him, then all the world will have his colour and his light and his madness."


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Paintcheck

Quote from: KillSlim on 19-12-2009
You only see the bad points. Inaccurate, relatively unreliable, close range.
Not ALL fights happen at 200 Yards, I often encounter close-combat foes in Stalker and Close-combat opportunities for an SMG in SRP in places like camp sights or establishments; like the train yard in Srp_Chernobyl.

Good points of these SMG's:
Cheap / Inexpensive
Very Effective at close-medium range / Accurate at close-medium range
Very high rate of fire
Small and Concealable
Durable
Selection of Firing Modes (Single, triple, full)
Cheap / Common Ammunition. Interchangeable with Pistol ammo.

Bad points:
Ineffective at long range (Why the fuck would you use one at long range anyway)
Weak against against Highly armoured targets

No I do see the good points, the problem is the environment we're in negates the good points. But let's go down the list:

Good points of these SMG's:
Cheap / Inexpensive This is the best reason to include them in my opinion, you're right on that point. Except that the cheap SMGs out there are also the crappy ones that don't shoot straight and jam every 3 shots (ie Mac 10) Quality SMGs cost a fair amount (ie MP5, which we already have in game and no one uses).
Very Effective at close-medium range / Accurate at close-medium range Spraying bullets works up close true but this is somewhat negated by the fact that everyone and their brother wears kevlar. While a spray of bullets would indeed fuck someone up up close, it still seems to me that you might as well use an assault rifle up close and spray someone with bullets that actually penetrate.
Very high rate of fire ...Ok? Burn through ammo faster shooting at armored targets. Sounds good
Small and Concealable Even the smallest SMG is pretty bulky. I doubt you'd be able to hide one under anything less than a full trenchcoat. Compact means it's easier to wield, but since STALKER weapons don't really take into account weapon momentum/weight you can swing around any rifle in game as fast as any SMG.
Durable SMGs aren't more durable than any other weapon. The bottom of the barrel models mentioned earlier like MAC 10s are made of stamped steel and are very crude. They are reliable more than durable due to the loose tolerances...except MAC10s were made to such low quality that their parts wear out quick causing problems. But like Uzis for example are decently made and go bang reliably...but again since in SRP weapons never jam this isn't a selling point.
Selection of Firing Modes (Single, triple, full) Assault rifles can do that too. Granted, the ones in SRP are pretty much all safe/semi/full but so are the vast majority of SMGs out there. Pretty much only the expensive HKs offer safe/semi/2/full or safe/semi/3/full but even then those are uncommon as most people stick with safe/semi/full. Since you can duplicate 2 round/3round burst with full auto and a good trigger finger that isn't much of a benefit. Especially since you'd be using SMGs up close when full auto would work better.
Cheap / Common Ammunition. Interchangeable with Pistol ammo. Ok good point indeed, however most people die long before they run out of ammo in game and ammo is pretty expensive to buy at the trader so that's not very practical

Bad points:
Ineffective at long range (Why the fuck would you use one at long range anyway) Exactly. You'd use an assault rifle. And you wouldn't carry a second weapon due to weight.
Weak against against Highly armoured targets Everyone is armored in SRP. Unless the SMGs you brought in were the MP7 and the P90 (which would make no sense canonly since neither is widespread and ammo is not common at all) that alone would negate any possible benefit.

It really isn't up to me if these get added and if they are I just won't use them but it seems to be that there aren't all that many situations you'd use them. Maybe against mutants but there aren't enough mutants out there to warrant dropping a couple hundred ru on an SMG.

Lucidius

#34


Figure I might aswell mention some of the features I had been implenting in STALKER D20 here,

Weapon Conversion Kits,

Taking an AKS-74u, and getting this conversion kit (30% of the parts needed, 70% are form AKS-74u) for a cheap price will grant you with this weapon.

Different weapons should be able to converted into different things.

As for in-effective, you have kevlar on your chest, you don't have the same protection on your arms, legs, neck and face, if you get shot in the artery in your leg your dead anyways.

Also, I think bullets hurt more then yall think of. Sure they don't have alot of stopping power in sense of killing/dropping some one upon impact, but I think getting shot in the arm/shot up in the chest alot/etc might hurt a bit more then yall can think of.

You ever get that thing where some one throws something at you, like a baseball, but you flinch and just turn so it hits your back instead of your face/nuts/etc?

Just because some one has a kevlar vest on, doesn't mean they don't want to get shot.

Anyways, turning this into ARPEE related stuff now, should do not alot of damage to armor but alot of damage to un-armored. sunrise suits and merc suits won't be super effective and not everyone is in a faction.

____________________________________________

Quote from: PaintCheck

Small and Concealable Even the smallest SMG is pretty bulky. I doubt you'd be able to hide one under anything less than a full trenchcoat. Compact means it's easier to wield, but since STALKER weapons don't really take into account weapon momentum/weight you can swing around any rifle in game as fast as any SMG.

METAGAME

If you have an AK-74, your not going to be able to manuver it easily in tight quaters. Am I one of the only people who RP this? For example if your being attacked by a hog, whilst underneath a crane, some one with an AK-74 won't be able to  manuver their gun back quickly to shoot at it, versus an AKs-74u will. Also i'de like to see you navigate corridors easily with an SVD.

Another point, the SMG's would fit in your PISTOL slot.  Compact SMG's don't weight a whole lot more then a pistol versus the advantages they carry. Look at the OTs-33 Pernach. It's a MP, so it's as small as a  pistol and effectively concealed.

TMP without a foregrip versus a the average zone pistol (about .8-1kg if i recall my STALKERD20 Reserch correctly):

TMP = 1.3kg empty WITH a foregrip.

that's .3-.5kg more, which isn't a WHOLE fucking lot.

As for Full on SMG's i.e MP5A5, etc weight and such are a valid point, what with it's 2.83kg weight, full on stock, and 2 handed design.

MACHINE PISTOLS = Good

SMG's = not as good but pretty good too.
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Assassinator

Honestly, if a gun sucks, that's not a reason to not put it into the server. Any realistic weapon that's put into the server I would enjoy for the variety. Not just the same weapons over and over.

KingArthur

Quote from: Assassinator1097 on 20-12-2009
Honestly, if a gun sucks, that's not a reason to not put it into the server. Any realistic weapon that's put into the server I would enjoy for the variety. Not just the same weapons over and over.

Yea, but them in for variety not effectiveness 

Paintcheck

Quote from: Assassinator1097 on 20-12-2009
Honestly, if a gun sucks, that's not a reason to not put it into the server.

I would argue it is a reason not to put in the server because it takes time and effort to get it in game only for no one to use it ever. That time and effort could be spent doing something else more beneficial.

EDIT: And Lucidius my name is Paintcheck.

Assassinator

It would be used because it's cheaper, it's still a good weapon, and also I'd use something for a character even if it sucks just to be unique. Such as a weapon a character is known for using.

Fluffy

Why don't we just throw in a Nuclear Tactical Device and call it a day huh?

Lucidius

#40
Quote from: Fluffy on 20-12-2009
Why don't we just throw in a Nuclear Tactical Device and call it a day huh?

I'de beg to differ @ having a tonne of weapons, that's alot of space on your HD. The DLC is already huge as is.

Quote from: Paintcheck on 20-12-2009
EDIT: And Lucidius my name is Paintcheck.

HI, MY NAME IS.

Don't know what the fuck I was thinking.
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KillSlim

Quote from: Assassinator1097 on 20-12-2009
Honestly, if a gun sucks, that's not a reason to not put it into the server. Any realistic weapon that's put into the server I would enjoy for the variety. Not just the same weapons over and over.

The Makarov sucks ass, and yet it is still on the server.
These days, AK's and variants suck against modern rifles which are also on the server, but the AK is just a mass-produced reliable and cheap weapon, same as these SMG's.

AK 47 vs M16

Which would you rather have in the Zone? The cheap, mass produced reliable weapon or the complex unreliable expensive weapon.
"Yes, we will be changed and we will march with him, then all the world will have his colour and his light and his madness."


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Lucidius

Also no one uses the berreta eather, fort 12.
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Fluffy

Quote from: Lucidius on 21-12-2009
Also no one uses the berreta eather, fort 12.

Lawl'd

KillSlim

Quote from: Lucidius on 21-12-2009
Also no one uses the berreta eather, fort 12.

They're side-arms for Freedom and the Ecologist. And you're right, I rarely see people use Berretas or the Fort pistols.
Let's not talk about Pistols, and let's talk about these SMG's instead.

Quote from: Fluffy on 21-12-2009
Quote from: Lucidius on 21-12-2009
Also no one uses the berreta eather, fort 12.

Lawl'd

I thought that pointless 1 word responses that have no relevance were strictly banned by SK?
Hm. Guess admins are excluded from their own rules.
"Yes, we will be changed and we will march with him, then all the world will have his colour and his light and his madness."


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Subzero

Pics look sweet

KillSlim

Quote from: Subzero on 25-12-2009
Pics look sweet

Lovely. Glad you like them. Anything to contribute, suggestions, opinions on the matter?
"Yes, we will be changed and we will march with him, then all the world will have his colour and his light and his madness."


Ace: Howdy-do, Killslim.
Paintcheck: Uh...
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GenX

I like the tmp and uzi, those personally are my favorite guns because they have easy handling, I also agree we do need more smg's.
"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer but wish we didn't." -Erica Jong

GeneralGold

I like them, but i think some of them are to over-powering. I'd rather just have them add some cheap old guns that look like it was some Trader made it. So STALKERS can get cheaper guns, and prices will drop cause of them. And then the economy for MOST people will get better.
Henry Warlington|Ecologist|Active
'Sheperd'|Mercenary|Active
'Danger'|Bandit|Away

Lucidius

Holy fuck, neeeecro.

Stop posting in threads to bump your post count.
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