Server Economy or "What the fuck are you smoking, Silver?"

Started by Paintcheck, 07-10-2010

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Paintcheck

Ok you know your economic system fails when someone can describe it to a non HGNer and that person goes "What the flying fuck?" My personal favorite is my friend's reaction when I described this to him.

Quote from: Him over SF
How the fuck....
I mean, it's like you're trying to suck
screw trying actually
more like, desperately striving for failure

"Desperately striving for failure" sums up SRP very, VERY well. New players are actively punished for not being in a faction (hell even old players are). If you aren't in a faction, you aren't having fun. Period. Which means no new players will join and this server will finally die like people have been predicting for months.

What we have in this server right now is a combination of the WORST economic systems EVER conceived. Right now the server is an oligarchical communistic feudal society. (Copy pasted from an SF convo)

The factions are communists
Paintcheck: They pool their paychecks together for the common good
Paintcheck: And they get gear from the "central economy" (the quartermasters that can sell everything regardless of tier based on what they told Silver they should be allowed to sell)
Paintcheck: The loners are serfs
Paintcheck: They cannot make money at all
Paintcheck: They toil away for the factions to harrass
Paintcheck: And don't receive anything of their own at all
Paintcheck: The communists don't share their wealth because communists keep the wealth in the commune for their own use.
Paintcheck: So we have an oligarchical communist feudal society
Paintcheck: With all the wealth is at the faction level (which should be the minority but it isn't because no one is going to play as a loner).
Paintcheck: and none at the new player level
Paintcheck: and the new player level physically CAN'T earn anything because they are dependent on the factions for jobs. But the fations won't hire them because the loners offer nothing the faction can't do on its own
Paintcheck: Since the loners don't  have guns or gear
Paintcheck: Thereby perpetuating the cycle
Paintcheck: ...I don't even KNOW how it is "supposed" to work actually because the "free market traders" don't have any money and yet are expected to buy their own inventory to sell. And they can't sell to anyone because the factions have their own traders (thereby keeping the faction money in the faction) and loners can't afford anything. And admins can't hand out money or anything for events because Silver removed those commands from every admin level except SV.

I don't know how you manage to do it Silver but I must say I am impressed. It is amazing to me that you possess the amount of incompetence required to fuck up an economy THIS badly.

I remember back when I first became a TA things were so much better. Because ALL admins even TAs, had the ability to spawn items and money so events were common. The addition of random artifact spawning looked to improve things. But since that peak back a few months ago when we were on Chernobyl and had random artifacts and a huge player base, things have gone down hill and are going to continue to do so. The server right now isn't just boring, it is dull. There are no anomolies, no mutants, no bandits or loners or anything. It's just MIlitary sitting in their bunker and Freedom sitting in theirs.

The most frustrating part about this is your absolute refusal to listen to your players. NO ONE likes the shitty shipment idea, EVERYONE complains of there being nothing to do and yet you don't change anything. We have been shouting since the server came back up that this economy wouldn't work and you just ignored it. When you asked me to come back and admin I said I would only if you removed shipments and fixed the economy you said you would and you haven't. With every server wipe we've ever had, things get WORSE The best times on this server were back when Chernobyl was relatively new when we had a large player base (whom you have caused to leave with your ideas and your deaf ears to what players want), active admins who wanted to do events, and artifacts spawning randomly. Oh and we also had developers working for HGN because you hadn't yet claimed their ideas as your own and stolen all the credit for their work yet. People could come on and accomplished stuff, they didn't need to grind paychecks for months to buy anything (and now that there are no paychecks for anyone other than factioners they can't even do that) because an admin always had a cool event or the artifact spawn system would break and spawn a bunch of artifacts for players to find. WHO THE FUCK CARES that the economy "was too rich"? No one, because it was fun.

With EVERY effort you have made to make a "realistic" economy, things have gotten worse. Random artifact spawning is gone, admins can't spawn guns for mission rewards or stashes, most admins aren't that active, and all the players left for TnB. The huge numbers of players HGN has lost from then to now and the even larger number who switched to other servers should have sent up a red flag that maybe trying to make every one poor, unarmed, and bored might not be a good way to run the server. But despite repeated warnings from most of the admin staff and lots of the players that you were driving us off a cliff you continued to ignore the community's suggestions and implement even worse economic systems. And then you decided to rip off Nexus script, which would be fine if you left Kuropixel's name in there somewhere (I think changing some of the windows and items does not allow you to say "Designed and Created by Last Exile" or whatever it says on the credits page as if you had coded the whole thing) and then you put us on a shitty map that every Fallout RP in the universe runs. Want to know why I don't play there? Because they are bland and boring....oh wait we're using the same script and the same map as them and now HGN is bland and boring. Huh fancy that.

Plunger

You mean there are still people who didn't know this.

Dug

Pretty much what Paintcheck said. Booring, nothing going on, too much military, loners and bandits are no where to be seen and even non mili merc are rare. Mutants, appear once in a life time, events are also rare and when I just joined HGN they were like...every five minutes, the economy was working back then and there was a nice player base, there was always someone to roleplay with. The economy is falling apart as he said, so is the player base.

irondeity

I have to agree on multiple levels here. I think its time the High Council sits down and has a very long discussion after getting some views out of the player base, as well as things that have already been stated in the forums regarding this as a whole. Come on guys, lets turn this thing around shall we? Some of you are probably going to say "We've tried." Well, 'Rome wasn't built in a day' as the saying goes. So keep up the attempts, get a big meeting pulled together, and get this broken down to the nitty gritty, bear bones, nails and boards.
Unaffiliated: Mikhal 'Sabre' Tokerov -:- Alive
Ex-Military/Spetsnaz: Andrei 'War' Mirkov -:- Alive
Military Observer: Victor Tokerov -:- Alive
Unaffiliated: 'Siege' -:- Deceased
Leoyid 'Rat Tail' Olinsky -:- Alive
The Tar Man -:- No Data

irondeity

Alright. I unloaded on someone from the server with a rant i dont think he'll soon forget. In his words he tells me "by all means continue on the holy crusade." So Thats exactly what Im going to do. So, lets have it people, voice yourself here, follow Paintchecks example stick to what he has here, aswell as Dug, dont get too far off course, and if you feel you need to troll and flame, take it to a room in the Gay Castle of Sparkle-Skinned vampires.
Unaffiliated: Mikhal 'Sabre' Tokerov -:- Alive
Ex-Military/Spetsnaz: Andrei 'War' Mirkov -:- Alive
Military Observer: Victor Tokerov -:- Alive
Unaffiliated: 'Siege' -:- Deceased
Leoyid 'Rat Tail' Olinsky -:- Alive
The Tar Man -:- No Data

Chrono

The server economy is totally fucked up the player base is : 3 freedomers,Rarely a loner and 10 milifags(myself included). The map is not even stalkerish no one has money.bandits don't exist, the only mutant is thy that is active so yeah what paintcheck said the server going to die soon since admins cant do shit our SV's dont do events so or last exile fix things up by hearing the admins and players or lets say bye to SRP

Silver Knight

1. The script is no way finished, half the shit is missing and we only went straight over because garry broke the old one.

2. I do and have always cared about SRP, i develop and manage it however it's up to the admins to do events, control the server and create the roleplay (on a lore friendly level). Failure in that is admin and player like alone.

3. The script is nexus, however i have been heavily editing it and declare when people first join that it uses nexus as a base.

4. The economy isn't great and i personally hate it at the momment, the item creation thing was already SA and some of the permissions have not been changed yet, since there are now 3 admin server groups and not two.

5. There are not artifact items yet, ill probably work on those tonight.

6. I depend on feedback on the forums for idea's, issues, bugs, problems and the like, only some of you bother to post your issues on the forums and actually provide useful or supportive information, staying in the background isn't going to get your opinion noticed and neither will shouting at me, we have a development and idea forum for a reason. Yet none of you comment on how the map can be improved or the script for that matter.

7. Ive been doing srp for over 3 years now and i think you guys owe me some slack, im one man and ive done this in my free time, developing several maps, over 200 variations of radiationscript (probably more) and taking onboard everything through the good and bad, where others would just quit.

Lastly i work on the script nearly every day, if you check the change log i list most of the stuff i do, some take a few mins and some hours, and with the complex life im living right now it's hard to hold it together.

Quotebreslau: if i cant cheat i dont wanna play
breslau: period

Wings

+Support for PaintCheck.
I totally agree with what he is saying. Honestly, Awhile ago when I was playing under a different tag, SRP was booming, But now it is in ashes.

Steven :D

rage
To fix this, Give certain traders some items / etc and tell them to make jobs and such. I barely make money, I have around 4,800 RU as a trader in cash. And another 3k in items. Thats NOTHING compared to how much military has and such. What about that stalker Quake, he finds TONS of guns and decides OH IM GONNA KEEP THEM ALL LOL... Really. Well if I had the supplies I'd give out so many fucking jobs until every single rookie atleast has a weapon and some spare cash. Jesus fucking christ its so hard. And traders dont even get a paycheck. Know what I think? Traders should be a whitelist, and then you could just flag them their appropriate tiers. Maybe then they'll actually have a paycheck, All paychecks should be like 500 RU + and instead of having it hourly, maybe even every half hour would help the economy. Us traders dont have alot of resources to work with. Plus even with the resources we have, we cant keep up with the demand for weapons we DONT have and WONT have for the next 2-4 weeks. No one has bought a suit from me because they can buy whatever fuckin suits they want from their faction leader. There is no income for loners, because traders havent sold anything, because FACTION MEMBERS dont want to buy from actual TRADERS besides they're own quartermasters. Military, lets see. They have tons of skats, VS-Val's Vintorez's and all that crap. On my loner. I have 0 RU and nothing else. No one wants to be attacked by bandits, also bandits cant even friggin bandit people like they should. Why? Well heres why. THEY CANT EVEN AFFORD A SHITTY MAKAROV. And even then if you buy a makarov your more likely to hit someone halfway across the map then anyone infront of you.
/rage
Holy balls.


Silver Knight

Stalkers now earn a 90 Ruble paycheck (90 x 7 hours = 630 Rubles)

That's enough for;

Most base pistols (Makarov, fort 12)
A Toz Shotgun
Kabars
Medkits

Basically it's a fair amount to earn and will help the Stalker Economy grow.

Quotebreslau: if i cant cheat i dont wanna play
breslau: period

Wings

Quote from: Last.Exile on 07-10-2010
Stalkers now earn a 90 Ruble paycheck (90 x 7 hours = 630 Rubles)

That's enough for;

Most base pistols (Makarov, fort 12)
A Toz Shotgun
Kabars
Medkits

Basically it's a fair amount to earn and will help the Stalker Economy grow.
75 Ru? Wow....

N3gativezero

75 rubles is still nothing compaired with the 400+ of factions. I remember before garry raped the script, 1000 RU was a decent ammount to have, at least for me. Now its piss. "1000 RU? Bah, I'll earn it back in a couple days."
To loot, lulz and SCIENCE!

Silver Knight

Yeah im going to bump down factions.

Anyway you can expect this weekend for me to finish a basic artifact system.

How it will work is admins create a area for an artifact to spawn, then on a random timer a artifact will spawn there.

I have idea's on how to further develop artifacts to be more interesting along the way such as a identification system.

Ecologists and veteran characters can detect what the type of artifacts type is aka "Poor Condition, Good Condition, Excellent Condition" etc. This would give more point to ecologists, allow a skill that stalkers can obtain and also allow traders to undersell new stalkers who do not know the properties of their finds.

I also at somepoint want to develop some sort of detector which allows you to find artifacts and without them you cannot see them. Another thing still on my to-do list is develop artifact slots so the player can equip them, this will effect both physical and mental states of the player, including weight, bleeding (Still to do). You may have noticed the new set of attributes such as Radiation, psi etc.

For those of you who hated controllers psi, this will come in handy when i develop psi protection items.

Quotebreslau: if i cant cheat i dont wanna play
breslau: period

Tom

Will shipments go away? Since its still god aweful and not Loner friendly, Though I like the 90 Ruble paychecks. It still dosn't fix the Shipments which do not really serve much of a purpose, Besides a means to piss folks off.
Quote from: TheAndyShandy on 05-12-2013
Oh boy.
Strap yourselves in, it's time for the great 'obligatory' SRP resurrection of 2013/14/15/16/22

Khorn

I can only see bulks and shipments working for Food and Medical Items. But for guns and armor, I would say different.

But the food item and medical items bulks should be somewhat low. I guess?

RG4ORDR

SRP is only HGN members playing thats good enough proof SRP is dead
er

Tom

The reason why it is dead is because, It is so god damn hard to get started, An average new player who is new to RP has a short attention span, and ussally does not want to spend months of time to get a simple sunrise and AK-74U. Instead of forcing new players to be poor and instead of forcing neutral players to be impossible to play, Simply, get rid of shipments, give traders paychecks, Make it Incredibly easy to aquire low tier gear, and make it ALOT harder to recieve high tier gear, cause if your only reason for making everyone fucking poor is "Lol we had too many exo's" Make it so they either A: Have to apply and limit the amount total. Or B: Make a merit system in which players Good RP and Good behaivor will lead to Exos, But make suits such as the Sunrise and guns like the Ak-74M easy to aquire. That way, we draw in new players, and we keep it interesting for older players, AND do not do wipes, simply have a different way to get rid of an excess of shit. Also make artifacts REALLY common and worth a fuck ton.
Quote from: TheAndyShandy on 05-12-2013
Oh boy.
Strap yourselves in, it's time for the great 'obligatory' SRP resurrection of 2013/14/15/16/22

RG4ORDR

Sunrise should be 5k they aren't a uber leveled suit
er

Wings

Quote from: RG4ORDR on 07-10-2010
Sunrise should be 5k they aren't a uber leveled suit
What the fuck? 5K? No, I'm a Stalker, and Thats the only character that I have,. I even donated to get Experienced flags, and I didn't get a suit. all that I got was a shitty ass Makarov, and a donator Status. Yay! -_-
I think Most experienced Stalkers should at least get a suit and a Viper5. Sunrise suit's should be 2k. I'm going to have to make a Freedom character, or maybe a Trader; because the economy is shit.

Paintcheck

Making a trader doesn't help the economy, the problem is no one can buy from the traders who are already here because they can't afford it.

Tom

Quote from: Paintcheck on 07-10-2010
Making a trader doesn't help the economy, the problem is no one can buy from the traders who are already here because they can't afford it.

^ That, 50 Ru paychecks an hour dosn't make up for the awefull shipment system and lack of jobs/events.
Quote from: TheAndyShandy on 05-12-2013
Oh boy.
Strap yourselves in, it's time for the great 'obligatory' SRP resurrection of 2013/14/15/16/22

Mrtasker

Shipments are incredibly annoying, 200k for five Freedom Seva's wut? I don't need or want as many as five Seva's, please for the love of god get rid of shipments.

Seth Gecko - Freedomer

Steel

Suit shipments i dont think are a good idea.

Hell i dont even understand the server at the moment as im getting back in the swing of it.

But if there are weapon shipments, they should stay. How better to equip a faction with the weapons they should be using, rather than all you leaders being like "Have anything you want"

Dug

That Quake guy is part of The Sanctioned, shows how stalker clans work out pretty nicely.

Tom

Quote from: Steel on 08-10-2010
Suit shipments i dont think are a good idea.

Hell i dont even understand the server at the moment as im getting back in the swing of it.

But if there are weapon shipments, they should stay. How better to equip a faction with the weapons they should be using, rather than all you leaders being like "Have anything you want"

Or you could just tell your factioneers "You have to use this gun." instead of fucking over everyone who dosn't want to be in a major faction. Cause atm we concentrate HEAVILY on Faction and faction RP. Loners, bandits, and freelance merc ussally get left out in the cold. . . Its been slowly getting that way for a while. And also atm the factions are ussally the majority which is uncannon since most stalkers did not belong to a faction, They where either Loners, Bandits, or Mercs. . . Those are major poulation groups well mercs not so much, But it would be nice to see more freelance mercs, Bandits and loners rather than 89089087 Mili on, 8759723910857 Freedom on and no one doing jackshit, and just farming paychecks having a mini-arms race going, and the fact that Mono and Duty are all, Less active then freedom and Military also wrecks havoc on cannon. Our server atm is boring, and not new player friendly, "If your not in a faction, you are worth shit" ia basically how it is. Hell its not even old player friendly atm.
Quote from: TheAndyShandy on 05-12-2013
Oh boy.
Strap yourselves in, it's time for the great 'obligatory' SRP resurrection of 2013/14/15/16/22