Gear Return Rule

[Smirnoff]

As the thread title suggests, I want a detailed, well written reply on why the gear return rule was outlawed, because I have thought it through from many different angles, and I can't find a single argument to justify it.

Faction fight's are going to become even more rare, and more of a pain in the ass because of the tremendous amounts of complaints that will be formed after each fight, on why stalker A didn't follow tiny rule B, or similiar.

You are essentially turning one of the most enjoyable elements of SRP into something that is now going to be taken super seriously, since the losing side will always loose all their stuff, which took quite some time to gather

[Comradebritish]

Items
Gear Returns: Only Superviser (SV) may authorise gear returns, however they only happen if the loss was genuine (Loss because of admin fault, glitch etc).

This is the new rule, I don't agree with, infact I hate it as a rule. But it's the ruels now, stop being butthurt.

[Smirnoff]

Items
Gear Returns: Only Superviser (SV) may authorise gear returns, however they only happen if the loss was genuine (Loss because of admin fault, glitch etc).

This is the new rule, I don't agree with, infact I hate it as a rule. But it's the ruels now, stop being butthurt.

Instead of acting like an ass to the one who is trying to get the rule you stated that you hated reverted to its original state, why dont you help me instead by providing some decent arguments to support your opinion on why you hate it, as well as giving me your support.

The more of us who wants this changed, the more they will have to act on our opinions when this matter is decided.

The rules aren't set in stone, if there's something you disagree with, dont shrug it off and talk down on it without actually trying to do something about it.

[jaik]

If players wouldn't ALWAYS worry about their gear (like all the "roleplayers" here do) then this rule wouldn't be an issue.
In my opinion, No Gear Return by default is just fine.

[andrewhatesyou]

If there was the GR rule still, players wouldn't be afraid to go into a STK fight. It encourages players to be more cautions instead of "Ima run into the battle and just shoot everywhere because if I die, I will get my shit back!". I ike this rule and see nothing wrong with it, as it is just a game and doesn't affect you IRL ( I hope :/).

[Smirnoff]

If players wouldn't ALWAYS worry about their gear (like all the "roleplayers" here do) then this rule wouldn't be an issue.
In my opinion, No Gear Return by default is just fine.

Yes, in the same way anorexia wouldn't be an issue if people would stop worrying about their weight.

Don't forget that the gear return rule was an OPTIONAL rule and in no way forced upon the players, its was the players who chose to have GR because it suited them.

Besides, if we have the GR rule, then people wouldn't worry so much about their gear am I right?

[Nova]

I honestly don't have a problem with these rule either. However, Duty just got into a fight with Freedom (Duty lost, I'm the one to blame, moving on), and the huge amount of equipment that was lost is one of those times where I could easily be a bit annoyed.

If a Stalker is killed, no GR, that's just how it is. But in large scale engagements, like Duty vs Freedom, I think we should at least be able to agree on whether we should use GR or not. Or at least get some equipment back, the one's that's most worth or something like that.

Before this turns into a flame war, I'm just gonna say that I do not need gear return on this one (although it would be nice). But I think you should seriously think about at least being able to get some of the gear back. For a major faction to lose so much equipment is devastating, and that goes for all factions/groups.

[Comradebritish]

So like a real faction war, where we loose assets as we loose fights against the enemy. It encourages planning and leadership.

[Khorn]

I was trying to think of a way to replace the No GR and still have stalkers fear death.

Best I came up with was if your character died from another player/anomaly their character would be dead for about 30 minutes. Forcing them to switch to another character. Of course there are issues with this, such as people that only have one character, or if someone gets RDMed.

I was thinking of asking Silver if he would be willing to make a test script of that idea so that people didn't lost gear they had equipped, but drop cash roughly equal to what they carry and/or how long they have been alive. A quick example with quick price tags; Rookie with a makarov dies and drops 100 rubles, an Exo with a Groza dies and drops 1,000 rubles.

The Rookie and Exo would be dead for 30 minutes but would not have lost their gear.


Of course this is just another idea I was thinking up in hopes to make a better system then what we have now. Personally, I think using /me in any type of fight is a bit silly. Most /me fights tend to have metagaming and powergaming, not always, but sometimes. I think /me should be reserved for Passive Roleplay.



Now to make a bit more detailed post, the idea about 30 minutes of death for a character with no gear loss. It would work for STK and STRP fights, and you would no longer require /me or /events to announce to the world that you are aiming at a stalker, that suddenly after the post, gets the temptation to hide behind cover for no reason. The 30 minute death rule would get rid of the worry about losing gear in fights and RDM. No longer would you need to worry about going to the bathroom and having a lolbandit pop a bullet into your face for your guns.

And since gear would not be dropping, it would be replaced with money equal to the gear they have on them that is active. Of course, people could money farm each other, but they would need to wait 30 minutes in order to do it again, and it become more of a  hassle to farm for a few hundred rubles.



This is just a thought in process, that is more likely to be shot down before anyone reads it anyways.

[Ravanger]

Yeah pretty much wouldnt't fear loseing their gear and would just charge into battle like rambo and then get gear back. Now you have to worry about loseing gear and be a bit more cautious as well it gives a bit more insentive for fighting and loot at the end.

[Smithy]

I like the idea, But i feel that the player who kills the opposition should recieve abit more than cash. I was in the Freedom V Duty skirmish. Freedom Won, And tbh alot of people looted before i could get there. It teaches people to be more careful. But in somecases i agree with GR. But overall i agree with No GR, It introduces Fear RP and no Rambo'in.
-Like your idea khorn-

[Khorn]

Even with no GR, some players will still attempt to go 'Rambo' through a fight. Even with no GR, Fear RP is not present, unless you count, loss of gear as a fear.

Some people just have issues acting out fear in a video game, or in a situation where they know the fear is not real. The only thing holding people back from gun fights is the No GR.



I just see this system of No GR and STK by default as a temporary solution to a problem. If this was single player it would be fine, since when you kill others, no one would complain, and if you died, you just reload a save.

But for a multiplayer game, STK and No GR doesn't really work.




To restate my idea for a test run, this also is completely unorganized. It also be nice if anyone who comments on this part to actually read through it before bashing it with no valid arguments.

1) /me should be used for Passive Roleplay. And what leads up to a fight. Maybe (/me fights last way to long and some do not like to accept being killed most of the time.)

2) /event should be only for an event unfolding, not so the server can hear about how a stalker is shooting another stalker across the map.

3) STK/STRP is defaulted, while /me aren't necessary since again, it would draw a fight out way to long which can cause metagame issues.

4) 'No GR' be turned into a "Gear is not dropped, but instead cash equally to player's active equipment is dropped"

5) If a character dies by anomaly/player, they player should be dead for an allotted amount of time. (ex. 30 minutes) This would force the player to try to avoid fights, but if they die, they will need to play a different character, which would remove the chance of them returning to a fight.(I've seen that occur before).

6) RDM would lessen and complaints about minges looting recent deaths would diminish.

7) There is more to it, but my mind is a bit overloaded right now.

[Ravanger]

To me no gear return gives a bit more insentive to faction wars so you don't end up wasteing ammo and usally will achieve something.

[lolKieck]

4) 'No GR' be turned into a "Gear is not dropped, but instead cash equally to player's active equipment is dropped"

Is it players' cash or admin gives the cash ?
IF it'd be on the players' side, I guess everyone would keep cash in the safebox. And sunrise owners or some other epic suit owners would get fucked after 1 fight, having no money to drop, most likely dropping the suit.

I actually would prefer fights to be GR after both parties agree.

[Khorn]

It would be neither of those. The money would be essentially spawned on their deaths. Nothing else.

Our current system just doesn't work right for how everyone wants to play.

Personally, I'm terrible at STK fights, and the few fights I've been in, at least some of the time, the other player starts to 'CSS' fight. CSS fight as in, they hop around like idiots and have a disregard for the effects of being shot, hurt, weight or anything while fighting.

As for /me fights, they tend to drag on a fight that normally would finish in a minute out to about 5 minutes. And in that time, people may walk by. /me fights also have people that may powergame, or just avoid getting hurt too much. Cause, no one really likes to lose.


Using /me during an STK fight, is even worse, you may try to act out something, but the other players wont see it and won't react. Or you get shot while typing. So attempting a /me during an STK is just a bad idea.

So I still say, use /me for Passive roleplay in between fights. No GR makes people whine if they get killed, and it doesn't promote fear at all, just gear protection.


But if you can't lose gear, then people may CSS fight each other. But to make that less likely to happen, players that get killed have their player locked for an amount of time to force them to swap characters. I see it as a better way to promote fear, without people fearing the lose of their gear. So people will be willing to fight in STK battles more, but not have to worry about losing their gear.


I know some players like No GR since they can get gear out of it to sell, but it just hurts the player that died. So replacing it with a money drop system would make both parties more or less happy. You still get cash for winning a fight, and the loser won't bitch and rage quit. They would just complain about not being able to use their character for a half hour.





Our current set of rules for fights are set for a Single Player game. At least, that is what it looks like to me.

[Yorty]

Or we could just re-instate the old Gear Return rule, but keep no gear-return as default. It was the rule before, it just wasn't enforced.

[Gokiller]

I think that the rule as just :/. It was good for when i was new but when i got into the game, When i was Monolith i just found out, You would get LOL Stalkers who ran in like "STK STK" Then we would kill them. And they would be like GR GR GR. Then like 5 mins later it would happen again. "STK STK STK" GR. Shit and it got pointless. SO i think Gear return is a bad thing to have

[andrewhatesyou]

I was thinking of asking Silver if he would be willing to make a test script of that idea so that people didn't lost gear they had equipped, but drop cash roughly equal to what they carry and/or how long they have been alive. A quick example with quick price tags; Rookie with a makarov dies and drops 100 rubles, an Exo with a Groza dies and drops 1,000 rubles.

That would fuck up the economy. Everybody would have an exo in a matter of days/weeks.

[Khorn]

Tell me how then.

[Goose]

I was thinking of asking Silver if he would be willing to make a test script of that idea so that people didn't lost gear they had equipped, but drop cash roughly equal to what they carry and/or how long they have been alive. A quick example with quick price tags; Rookie with a makarov dies and drops 100 rubles, an Exo with a Groza dies and drops 1,000 rubles.

That would fuck up the economy. Everybody would have an exo in a matter of days/weeks.

No they wouldn't because i am the one in control of that shit and i would not let that many people buy them because they have 90000000001 Rubles they got from RDMing/STKing.

But i just don't like the idea anyway, Personally life isn't fair get over it, it's a game if people rage over dieing and looseing a virtual item well then they should get a life...

[Khorn]

Again, you would not make that much from killing players, and attempting to farm the money would take a lot longer, and more effort then standing around.

People who RDM would be stopped like normal, most likely by other players. That would make it more realistic, since in life, anyone with a gun could pull a gun and shoot people. Annoying, yes, realistic, yes.

[deluxulous]

The object of the game is to have fun. Honestly, I think we've all forgotten that. Also, like Khorn said, fighting turns into a CSS fight with run 'n gunning and ignoring battle damage almost every time. I don't have any ideas on how to fix this, but I don't think that GR should be revoked entirely.

[Paintcheck]

Make it so gear doesn't drop at all and do what Khorn said with the money drops. That way you all don't have to worry about your precious sweps and you still get a reward for winning a fight without completely crippling the loser which is how the system works now.

[Khorn]

Oh wow, I don't know if that's sarcasm, but out of all people to agree to one one my random ideas, Paint was rather low on my list of those likely to agree with me.


No offense intended, but surely you understand my amazement.

[jaik]

It's a bad idea.