Another chopper topic

[Nargotah]

"We gave you a choice. You can leave, or you can die."


Now how, exactly, does this lead to good RP? Any major fight against the military is rendered nigh impossible by this, unless we have an RPG, which is incredibly rare in both canon and in the server. Not to mention that it never crashes due to an anomaly (which we all know happens loads in the Zone) is never needed to be used elsewhere, never needs routine maintenance during an inconvenient time, and is always there within minutes of a major fight.

Does this strike anyone else as kind of odd? It makes even trying to fight the Military absolutely pointless. Now obviously this should be more or less true in canon, but this is a goddamned GAME. We play it to have FUN. And having fun does not equal being buttraped by Military every time one of us actually tries to do something that might have SOME adverse effect on how the military runs. Sure, you can blow the shit out of our bases, you can take our APCs, you can do whatever the hell you like, but god forbid if we try to strike back.

If we do that, we get yelled at by a conjoined Military and Duty force about how something we're doing isn't "canon". We get yelled at about how we don't have the authorization. We get yelled at about how it isn't fair for us to invade the military base looking for a prisoner when we've planned the attack for three hours and there are no military there, while we aren't at our base and they're blowing our walls open, and stealing our APCs with ONE afk Freedomer on.

And if all that fails, what do they have to fall back on to make absolutely SURE nothing about their godly control can be undermined? Their Chopper of the Gods. This is completely ridiculous.

[Cutch]

The 4 man DUTY force didn't really help that much. All we did was try to keep military and freedom from fighting but then we get trapped inside the base by a hail of bullets from freedom. We never claimed your attempt was "uncanon" but rather annoying because whenever we attempt to "STRP" or "STM" it eventually turns into STK. That is the reason why fighting in SRP becomes so revolting its annoying even to watch it.

[jaik]

All fights should be STM for few minutes and then STK.
STRP just causes drama when there's a huge-ass fight going on.

[Welshy]

Your leaving a few key details to all this.

Firstly, the firefight was going on for a long period of 10 minutes before the chopper even arraived. Secondly, as soon as the fight started, multiple of us got hit one after another.

So before you start complaining, take these things into consideration. Plus we gave you the choice to leave so you would keep shouting 'LOLCHOPPER!" or complaining we use it just to RDM. We aren't trying to stop roleplay, we are trying to defend our checkpoint much like the canon is written.

[Strelok Holmes]

If we could follow our defence as canon shows, even large forces of stalkers would -fear- going towards military's main base in the first place. Hell we'd also have a pkm to fight small groups off.

[Nargotah]

We never claimed your attempt was "uncanon" You guys didn't, but I distinctly remember Strelok saying something about us teaming up with a bandit, even though I said around three times that the bandit in question was the leader of a bandit group and a former member of Freedom.

Your leaving a few key details to all this. And you're ignoring a few key details to my post.

Firstly, the firefight was going on for a long period of 10 minutes before the chopper even arraived. Good point, actually. I still think the Zone would probably be a longer than ten minute flight though, considering you have to navigate through all the anomalies.

Secondly, as soon as the fight started, multiple of us got hit one after another.

Yeah, I remember hearing a whole lot of deaths. I also remember seeing a whole lot of people running back in. Now, this is probably not a fault that's just on your side, but it gets kind of ridiculous when people don't just stay dead.

So before you start complaining, take these things into consideration. Plus we gave you the choice to leave so you would keep shouting 'LOLCHOPPER!" or complaining we use it just to RDM. We aren't trying to stop roleplay, we are trying to defend our checkpoint much like the canon is written. I brought that up earlier in my post which doesn't seem to have been read thoroughly by anyone. I know it's canon, but it's not FUN. Nobody wants to come on and see a fight with military and just say "fuck it, this is pointless". I know in CANON Military are gods of the Zone, but this is a GAME. Now, in a single player game, that's fine. That's just the status quo. But when it's an online game, you can't just have meaningless fights.

Oh and Cutch, I definitely agree with you on the last bit. Fighting in this server is just getting out and out silly. You're doing a great job on resurrecting Duty by the way, not giving you crap about that, it's just getting really annoying going against Mili all the time.

[Paintcheck]

If we could follow our defence as canon shows, even large forces of stalkers would -fear- going towards military's main base in the first place. Hell we'd also have a pkm to fight small groups off.

Ok but then how do we get Schelk back? What your basically saying is "You cannot ever attack military and must let them do whatever they please because that's canon"

[Strelok Holmes]

If we could follow our defence as canon shows, even large forces of stalkers would -fear- going towards military's main base in the first place. Hell we'd also have a pkm to fight small groups off.

Ok but then how do we get Schelk back? What your basically saying is "You cannot ever attack military and must let them do whatever they please because that's canon"

The fight made you lose one other person as well. Which proved no point in the first place. You could of done a negotiation right off the bat to get the person back, just as it occured half an hour? after the fighting.

[Tom]

Ok so if you guys say it's uncannon for us to attack military, Then I say its uncannon for military to attack freedom, What I mean is. . . One it's realitivly pointless "Oh no a bunch of weed smoking stalkers Arrg!" Secondly in game you never saw Military running in that deep into the zone just to attack freedom. . . I mean really. . . In STALKER Freedom was all the way at Military Warehouse. . . Thats right near the brainscorcher IE very deep into the zone, It's not part of there job to Send out massive attack forces to attack a group of STALKERs, Though I don't mind if you guys attack us while were out of base, I would much rather see Military Harassing STALKERs who have crossed the fence or who are near the fence. . .

[KingArthur]

Then why does freedom attack our checkpoint.

[Tom]

I try to avoid attacks when Im on. . . It's pointless and makes no sense. . . Especaily if the only reason for an attack is "Lol Im bored lets attack sumbudy. . ." But Celtic has the "Don't attack without my go." and when we tried to negotaite someone from freedom fired. . . And from what I heard Shelk was captured after military lolraided us again. . . Unprovoked. . .

[Nargotah]

Then why does freedom attack our checkpoint.

Freedom attacks your checkpoint because you captured one of their men during an unprovoked raid.

[Mrtasker]

The fight made you lose one other person as well. Which proved no point in the first place. You could of done a negotiation right off the bat to get the person back, just as it occured half an hour? after the fighting.

If I recall, I did play the negoation card but I was told to fuck off, and almost every single time I have tried to negotiate with the military, they always prove to be incredibly stubborn and almost always results in failure.

[Paintcheck]

1. MILITARY grabbed Schelk during a raid on FREEDOM TERRITORY so don't be calling our reprisal "unprovoked."

2. I didn't on the server until right before the shooting started so I don't know what happened before but according to several people we did try to negotiate. And military predictably played the "Fuck off we're military and invincible card" leaving Freedom no choice.

3. Duty apparently tried to 3rd party it and ended up aiding the military because they didn't announce their intentions to Freedom and we though they were hostile. That's Duty's fault, not ours for shooting at them. I even asked about 10 times OOCly "Duty WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" before the shooting started and got no answer. (I realize no one asked this question but it came up earlier)g

4. The second person we lost was me, and it's not like you guys didn't lose anyone so that's hardly a "pointless exercise". Schelk and I were promptly released after the raid anyway so that wasn't a huge blow.

Military, you guys are advocating a catch22. You say "You should have negotiated" when you refuse to negotiate and then you bitch about us "uncanonly attacking" your base when it was YOUR raid that started this all off. If we want to argue canon here you're not in the right. Freedom probably isn't either, but to be childish about it, you started it.

[RG4ORDR]

Wow shit between Military,Freedom,and Duty are getting high

[Nargotah]

Wow shit between Military,Freedom,and Duty are getting high

...Riiiiight. Thanks for your not only wise and well thought through, but relevant retort to the points made in this topic. I salute you.

[Cutch]

To go through the past ten thousand topics revolving around faction wars, here are the three reasons that have been well established why faction wars in SRP simply blows.

1. We focus WAY too much on canon.
I'd like to say that, half of the stuff that we do on the server is non-canon and I have to say, canon needs to take the back seat for a lot of things. "Military cannot be attacked because that is non-canon, nor can Freedom" is why we cannot take each others bases. Lets look at burned out HL2 RP for example, it has to be set inbetween the time that the combine capture and the end of HL2 where the citadel explodes, hence a definite storyline that cannot be altered without violating canon. THIS IS WHY WE CANNOT CAPTURE EACH OTHERS BASES, BECAUSE IT TAKES PLACE INBETWEEN CS AND SOC!
2. IC WE HAVE THIS, THIS, AND THIS!
Whenever people attempt to capture bases, I always hear "Well, in-character, we have four sharpshooters in towers that you can't see! We have an army of people that seemingly don't exist, but they do in-character so RP it!" The major problem with this is that we CAN'T rp it or we'd simply be playing with ourselves(in a non-sexual manor).
3. What the HELL would that faction do?
Lets say that freedom captures DUTY base. This would result in DUTY being homeless. WHAT WOULD THEY DO?! The only way they could recover would be to either a) home military will be warm and loving, b)Pillage stalkers and get gear, or c) set up a small camp, recruit stalkers, then regain their base in another, say six weeks unless they get raped AGAIN by freedomers or exobandits.

[Bielecki]

To be honest, the STRP in this fight was pointless.

In the middle of typing the situation would usually change completely, meaning you would have to retype something.
For example, I was trying to snipe Military when they were on their base walls, but it was pointless because they kept on moving off, or I was being approached. And there was no point in STMing.
Plus the fact that there was so much OOC and other BC's that what you had written would be missed. And if you did type it and get it out in time you would ussaly have to tell the person which would lead to them telling you that they were doing something else ICly.

This fight was utterly pathetic, so much whining and complaining because 'IC I was here, IC you couldn't do that, IC I got this.'

I'm sorry, but it should have been straight up STK.
And don't reply with 'But this is a RP server'... Just look above, do you really find this all that fun?

[Locke]

I personally hate this whole "We have a full IC garrison of people, so you cannot attack us"

If there is an equal amount of people in a fight, you don't get re-enforcements until the first part of the fight is over (i.e. A long time has passed or everyone on one side died)

[Goose]

Alright just to clerify what lead up to this attack here is the hole story.

Keyla, a group of stalkers and I were helping the ecologists take down a controller, we killed it kidna close to the military base and we were standing around talking to the ecologists, so the military bring up the PKM(I had no problem with this as we were incredibly close) and opend fire on the group we broke up and ran into the trees returning light fire long enough for us to pull out, we did we left and i draged Keyla back to base as she was wounded along with multiple other stalkers Serhiy showed up (our medic) and helped me with the wounded, i had druged keyla to put her to sleep not long after a stalker came in and warned me about a gathering of military not to far from our base, At this time we had three freedomers on one was wounded and wouldnt be able to fight so it was 2 against about 6, so i head out checked the size of their group grabbed Serhiy told him to take keyla to the house near the back of the map where we barricaded ourselves in and hoped the military wouldnt follow, they did. We had a short Stm fight where Schelk and Seth showed up and created a distraction long enough for us three to escape, Serhiy go wounded, Seth and i dragged Keyla and Serhiy away from the base but they had captured Schelkarov, so i took the two to the base Grabbed Austin and went off to see if we could help Schelk, Quake(Stalker) had come and helped us out in a short STM fight while the military fled to their base with Schelkarov, we gathered on the bridge outside of the military base and started to plan an attack waiting upon re-inforcments they arrived, at this point we had Seth,Austin,Keyla,Quake,Tommy,Serhiy,Nikki, and myself, we tried negotiating got told to fuck off and imediatly after being told to fuck off we came under fire, naturally returning fire, the fight began and ended about 10 min's later where Nikki got captured as we pulled out from injured people and the chopper.

And now you know the rest of the story :P

[RG4ORDR]

Found this odd the freedom base IS ALWAYS near military base

[Goose]

It's a small map everything is near everything and on redemtionv2 it was as far away as you could get from military

[irondeity]

I had fun on redemption due to the simple fact we didn't have to bug Freedom, they didn't bug us, and we never had to call in Da Choppah. I honestly dont like having the Hind called in when the other side has no way to RP taking it down. It makes it terrible one-sided. I do agree that Military IS the powerhouse faction right now but that only adds to the fact that, we really dont need to be calling a chopper in, it bores me to win by a cheap shot everytime we come under attack by Freedom. I like being a prisoner now and then.

[Assassinator]

This all stemmed from Military raiding Freedom which I have continuously said NOT to do. Our fight is with the STALKER's yet people continue to NEGLECT this.

[RG4ORDR]

What about the map long fence Didn't Strelok say that had to end or am I imaging things