An Unresolved Matter.

[Dragon]

First off, a simple hello, I am back from my ungodly awful, long absence from HGN, and I am here to make a return to the server.
Now then, you may be wondering why I am posting this in The Cordon, the general area for most Stalker related threads.

Well, that could either be the fact that it is to do with an OOC situation that is related to stalker, or my lack of judgement revolving around the HGN forums has gone hazy in my absence.

I am here to bring up a serious issue that I still find to this day unresolved, because I rightfully believe that the situation was mishandled and, due to what I find is a serious lack of understanding on the administrators behalf, judgement was placed unfairly.


I am referring to the PK of 'Dragon', an old character on the server who was declared PK'd by the administrator team back in early March.

Referring back into the day, the initial argument that was posted by Dug to the administrator team whilst he was presenting the case could be considered bias; you can view his post here.

Yesterday he shot him self into the head with a makarov and suddenly he's alive telling something stopped a gun to the head. Explenations please. This is a self PK, he shot him self to the head, he should die. Not that I am after Dragon or something. But it's just he couldn't have survived.

EDIT: I've recently gained knowledge that he used a "blank round", I think this is arsepull and that he should have died anyway. We would notice if he used a blank round, if he shot him self blood would come out, if it didn't then we'd shoot him.

EDIT 2: Doom and I were certain he is dead, suddenly "Ololol I'm alive." I'm not allowing this, discuss.

Seems a professional way to put forward my arguments to make this a fair trial, to me, it seems rather one sided, note the parts I highlighted in red.

Yesterday he shot him self into the head with a makarov and suddenly he's alive telling something stopped a gun to the head. Explenations please.

Well then, we already had a problem, Dug presented the administration with false information, for instance, it's blatantly obvious that some vital parts of this trial are still being left out.

Oh, and you never did contact me for an explanation, instead you just jumped the gun and went straight to the other administrators.

I think this is arsepull

You think it is, yet you do not check with me to verify this, I have no reason to lie to the administrator team.

We would notice if he used a blank round, if he shot him self blood would come out.

I chose my moment carefully, you Dutiers were too busy trying to apprehend 'Gearhead' whilst he was fighting against you.
And I recognise the fact that blood would come out, but I never chose to specify that blood emerged from any 'Wound', just like Dug dismissed checking the body for vital signs.

"Olololol I'm Alive.

Yeah, that's really making me seem mature in your argument, you did not check with me to see whether I had a just explanation for the PK, but rather, you simply ignored what you could of done and just went to the other administrators instead.

_______________________

Now, I would like to specify to the community what happened on the second runthrough of the trial.

I was explaining to Dug on how a 9x18mm blank cannot kill a man with ample protection to his head, and I presented a picture of different bullets to show how awfully small the 9x18 round was, however, due to lack of image, I had to post up an image of live rounds in comparison to a 9x19mm Parabellum round.
You can view the chart here;

Now, in order to combat his ideals on how blanks were fatal (Despite the only two recorded deaths were either with a .44 magnum blank(A bullet with a lot more power that didn't even kill the victim instantly)     and an accidental Squib Load), I posted an explanation to him on the stories, which he used in the argument.

I am not permitted access to view the admin boards however, so I can only assume that most administrators didn't even know a blank 9x18mm round was loaded, but rather a live 9x19mm round, and from the replies to the thread that Dug provided, it dawned on me that they must of thought it was a 9x19mm round.

This is what I posted.

This looks quite deadly to me, but to him it doesn't.
Thoughts?

It isn't deadly.
Refer to the story I referred to afew PM back, the .44 magnum only caused a skull fracture and he died from a medical term dubbed depression 4 days after.
A .44 magnum round compared to a 9mm round.
.44 is second from the left, 9mm is second from the right.
Image removed to remove space taken.

The 9mm packs alot less of a punch than the .44, and if the .44 does that, what makes you think the 9mm will do alot more severe damage?

And to clarify, I have a Gasmask, and a Helmet, the helmet in itself has decent protection from ballistic impact, which the force from Blanks are classified as.

Yeah, there is the evidence of him posting that image, and possibly misinforming the administration team.
However, when I PM'd him to repost with the fixed evidence, he insisted that he would not try again with the Administration team, which I found extremely irritating, due to the inaccurate information provided with the first two cases.

Their opinions didn't change the second time, so I could only still assume they were going off of Dugs first post, which was blatantly a biased, one sided post.

Now, onto logic.

_______________________

Now, from the responses that Dug included in his PM's, the admins were certainly misinformed whether I actually did use a blank or not.
However, I can only basically sum up a logical look to the situation.

I was the one who took off all my weapons in the room, however, I kept the Makarov stowed away, Duty didn't search me for the Makarov, I was safe.

Now ask  yourself, why would I stow away a Makarov pistol, and ditch a black kite and an SVD rifle?
Because it was particularly preloaded with blank rounds for such a situation, maybe?

Naturally, I chose not to inform anyone that I was using blank rounds, particularly because I know what most of HGN can do to get their own way in an RP, being here for more than a year or so has taught me that.



Now, congratulations if you managed to read all that, I am not adding a poll, I would like to hear your thoughts on all of this.
If you do not understand anything, just ask a question, I will do my best to answer it.

I would rather this not be locked, but rather kept open, I want to see what the community thinks about this whole ordeal.

_______________________

TL;DR - That aside, please actually read this topic, and take it in and post a serious reply, this needs to be resolved urgently and professionally, and your contribution matters.

[Dug]

It's good to have you back but...

*Sigh* I have already put this trough to the admin team. Aka your image of the bullets used here's the qoute.

This looks quite deadly to me, but to him it doesn't.
Thoughts?

It isn't deadly.
Refer to the story I referred to afew PM back, the .44 magnum only caused a skull fracture and he died from a medical term dubbed depression 4 days after.
A .44 magnum round compared to a 9mm round.
.44 is second from the left, 9mm is second from the right.


The 9mm packs alot less of a punch than the .44, and if the .44 does that, what makes you think the 9mm will do alot more severe damage?

And to clarify, I have a Gasmask, and a Helmet, the helmet in itself has decent protection from ballistic impact, which the force from Blanks are classified as.

These were the thoughts.

Point blank equals dead, if he shot himself in the Chen, Likely dead

If he shot himself in the nose/mouth/face, Unless it Narrowly misses his spinal cord/brain (Unlikely) dead.

If hes shot himself in the Temporal area of the head He would likely be dead.

Gasmasks are not bullet broof. And when the hell did he load a blank into his gun?

Its obvious it would kill him, you just need to make your own choice here judging on whats best for him and ther server.

Personally I find headcrabs to be a good player, I'd TK him for a week or two, but it's all up to you.

Doesn't matter if he's a "good player". Reality rules. A "good player" would know that.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out that I've heard stories of .44's actually pushing engine blocks out of place. Just throwing that out there.

There was also a vote , it was 8 to 4.
8 for yes, 4 for no.
And sorry I'm not paid to be professional.

Note, we never told you we were going to kill you or gave any gesture and you were there with us all the time without any sort of /me being done. So please drop it, and make a new char. This is getting tiring. First discussing this with Andy , then you. I've put trough your evidence of the bullet and your explenation, and heard out the admin team. I think it was fair and it wasn't biased. You can ask any admin and they will confirm the above qouting in the thread in the admin room.

I'm sorry but, you have blood like any other human being. If you get shot to the head, blood will burst out. And you can't fake away  breathing either. Plus you had a gas mask. When using a gas mask you make loud breathing sounds. There for, if you were alive, we would have noticed you and a human is a being that can hold it's breath the shortest on Earth. You were there for some time that instinct would force you to take another breath. Which we would probably hear.

You think it is, yet you do not check with me to verify this, I have no reason to lie to the administrator team.

You wouldn't believe to which limits people go to save their characters and what they do.

Well then, we already had a problem, Dug presented the administration with false information, for instance, it's blatantly obvious that some vital parts of this trial are still being left out.

Oh, and you never did contact me for an explanation, instead you just jumped the gun and went straight to the other administrators.

We talked a lot about this you and I between the PMs and I have heard your explenation.

I chose my moment carefully, you Dutiers were too busy trying to apprehend 'Gearhead' whilst he was fighting against you.
And I recognise the fact that blood would come out, but I never chose to specify that blood emerged from any 'Wound', just like Dug dismissed checking the body for vital signs.

You are also ignoring the fact I was next to you all the time.

Yeah, that's really making me seem mature in your argument, you did not check with me to see whether I had a just explanation for the PK, but rather, you simply ignored what you could of done and just went to the other administrators instead.

Refer back to the original post, read it again, it will make sense. Or you can read under.

Yesterday he shot him self into the head with a makarov and suddenly he's alive telling something stopped a gun to the head. Explenations please. This is a self PK, he shot him self to the head, he should die. Not that I am after Dragon or something. But it's just he couldn't have survived.

EDIT: I've recently gained knowledge that he used a "blank round", I think this is arsepull and that he should have died anyway. We would notice if he used a blank round, if he shot him self blood would come out, if it didn't then we'd shoot him.

EDIT 2: Doom and I were certain he is dead, suddenly "Ololol I'm alive." I'm not allowing this, discuss.

I was also in doubt(hence why I asked the admin team for their opinion) and I think the force generated by the gun would kill the person so do some admins who cared to respond to me in the thread.
Guns are not toys, they are meant for killing.

[Gokiller]

"Guns are not toys, they are meant for killing"

That is all

[Dragon]

"Guns are not toys, they are meant for killing"

That is all

I would like to point out that I realise this, but a gun is useless unless it is loaded.
This wasn't live ammo, but rather a bullet designed not to kill.

[ThY]

If Headcrabs has gone to such an effort to write this up, and produce evidence. He should get the character back.
I highly doubt this has been "resolved", so im throwing my thaughts randomly. :o

[Paintcheck]

If Headcrabs has gone to such an effort to write this up, and produce evidence. He should get the character back.
I highly doubt this has been "resolved", so im throwing my thaughts randomly. :o

Encouraging asspulling to avoid PKs is not a good idea.

[mxh24]

If Headcrabs has gone to such an effort to write this up, and produce evidence. He should get the character back.
I highly doubt this has been "resolved", so im throwing my thaughts randomly. :o

Encouraging asspulling to avoid PKs is not a good idea.

Don't be mean to thy... He is just being nice, and how is he asspulling, he basically typed up 4 whole Pages with evidence to not get pkd, he obviously loved that char.

[Dug]

I don't have time to lecture people about blanks. So refrain your self from speaking about something which you don't know of anything or using it at all.

If Headcrabs has gone to such an effort to write this up, and produce evidence. He should get the character back.
I highly doubt this has been "resolved", so im throwing my thaughts randomly. :o

Encouraging asspulling to avoid PKs is not a good idea.

This too.

[Dragon]

If Headcrabs has gone to such an effort to write this up, and produce evidence. He should get the character back.
I highly doubt this has been "resolved", so im throwing my thaughts randomly. :o

Encouraging asspulling to avoid PKs is not a good idea.

No evidence that it is asspulled is presented, only a line of which from Dugs primary first, I quote;

I think this is arsepull

Thinking/Predicting =/= What actually happened.

But at the same time, Nor is there any evidence that it is not asspulled, as I never took a screenshot as I RP'd loading the blank 9X18mm rounds into the magazine, because I thought it would not be necessary.

But regardless, get your facts straight before you throw accusations.

[Dug]

First of all, if you shot your self with a blank into a helmet. You'd be left without an ear drum. And it would hurt so much that it'd be impossible for you to fake the death. Second, do you know what a BFA is?

[Dragon]

First of all, if you shot your self with a blank into a helmet. You'd be left without an ear drum. And it would hurt so much that it'd be impossible for you to fake the death. Second, do you know what a BFA is?

Yes, I do realise that it would permenently damage my characters sense of hearing, but I also recognise that I never feigned death, but rather was hit into a concussion due to the force of the shockwave that the blank emits, so it's not acting, but moreso the lack of it due to the inability to act.

I know how lethal a blank round can be in the circumstances, that's why I chose a measly 9x18mm round over the .50 round the Black Kite chambers, because I knew that I would have to minimilze damage whilst still giving the appearance of death.

[Knife_cz]

Well..when you were hit in ear,throught helmet...You should get only Permament Damage,missing ear,and very bad hearing..

[Steel]

First of all, if you shot your self with a blank into a helmet. You'd be left without an ear drum. And it would hurt so much that it'd be impossible for you to fake the death. Second, do you know what a BFA is?

Yes, I do realise that it would permenently damage my characters sense of hearing, but I also recognise that I never feigned death, but rather was hit into a concussion due to the force of the shockwave that the blank emits, so it's not acting, but moreso the lack of it due to the inability to act.

I know how lethal a blank round can be in the circumstances, that's why I chose a measly 9x18mm round over the .50 round the Black Kite chambers, because I knew that I would have to minimilze damage whilst still giving the appearance of death.

I don't want to get involved with this, Nor the technical aspects, bit really? How much experience do you have with firearms? And the use of Blanks and Lives?

[Dragon]

First of all, if you shot your self with a blank into a helmet. You'd be left without an ear drum. And it would hurt so much that it'd be impossible for you to fake the death. Second, do you know what a BFA is?

Yes, I do realise that it would permenently damage my characters sense of hearing, but I also recognise that I never feigned death, but rather was hit into a concussion due to the force of the shockwave that the blank emits, so it's not acting, but moreso the lack of it due to the inability to act.

I know how lethal a blank round can be in the circumstances, that's why I chose a measly 9x18mm round over the .50 round the Black Kite chambers, because I knew that I would have to minimilze damage whilst still giving the appearance of death.

I don't want to get involved with this, Nor the technical aspects, bit really? How much experience do you have with firearms? And the use of Blanks and Lives?

Being English, I do not have much experience with anything else other than a few 12 gauge shotguns due to the damn restrictions the government has put in place.
However, reading experience wise; I know quite a bit.

[Steel]

Right I'm English aswell, and I have trained with all sorts of things including service rifles from various countries and also pistols, all of different calibres, both small and large and both live and blank. Blanks are loud, perforated drum if that close = a lot of pain, but not enough power to concuss someone.

[Dragon]

Right I'm English aswell, and I have trained with all sorts of things including service rifles from various countries and also pistols, all of different calibres, both small and large and both live and blank. Blanks are loud, perforated drum if that close = a lot of pain, but not enough power to concuss someone.

A .44 magnum blank when placed against the head is capable of fracturing the skull and causing depression.
The 9X18mm round is a considerable amount smaller, but with that comes a reduce in powder, causing a reduced amount of power.

The barrel of the Makarov was placed against a surface that covered a head, a helmet, before being fired.
The transfer of energy would go into the helmet, and then into the head shortly after.

I understand that 9X18mm rounds are weak in comparison to .44 magnum rounds, however, in the situation, I found myself with a stabbed hand as a possible result of such, a reduced blood pressure.
The force of the energy would certainly be enough to force someone into a concussion.

I understand where you could be coming from, but at the time, conditons were pretty bad.
I did not plot to get stabbed in the hand, I admit, but it happened, and I had to RP it, with it's various amounts of unfortunate consequence as well.

[ThY]

If Headcrabs has gone to such an effort to write this up, and produce evidence. He should get the character back.
I highly doubt this has been "resolved", so im throwing my thaughts randomly. :o

Encouraging asspulling to avoid PKs is not a good idea.

That isn't what I was getting at, unfortunaly.
And how is this a "Resolved Matter"?

[Dragon]

And how is this a "Resolved Matter"?

Believe me, this has gone on for so long, despite all of the evidence I have provided, no true compramise has been met whatsoever on the issue.

No light has been shed on the issue, and it is getting pretty tiring, having to fight for a case which, in my mind, could be viewed as an easy resolution if people could just act with a bit of common sense and review the whole situation before coming to any form of judgement.

All in all, I am getting tired and irritated of fighting my case for so long, without making so much as a bit of leeway.

[Renay]

You haven't provided any evidence, you only say something that can't be proven wrong nor right.

[Dragon]

You haven't provided any evidence, you only say something that can't be proven wrong nor right.

Yes, I awknowledged that a while ago, we all have.
We can only provide accounts to the public on the For and Against sides of this matter.

There are suttle things that people who were there when it occured can agree and disagree on, the primary thing we disagree on however, is the outcome.

[Aresty]

You guys make me laugh. All of you. You come in this forum, talking as little Einsteins., each one explaining his own theory, acting like he knows it all. Now I ask you to think that this is a game. Let's not make things difficult shall we ? Let's keep things fun and enjoyning and not go in useless debates on bullets. Headcrab should have his char back with serveral PI's, like being partially deaf.

[Dug]

It's a resolved matter from long ago. There's no further discussion in this.
What the admin team says, goes.

[Dragon]

It's a resolved matter from long ago. There's no further discussion in this.
What the admin team says, goes.

It was resolved with a vote that was started before any of the actual evidence for and against was contributed to the thread, you made me look like an ass infront of the admin team just so you could balance the votes in your favor.

You also lied to the Administrators,

Not that I am after Dragon or something.

If you were not after him, you would of given all of this up long ago, it's pretty evident that you have tried your hardest to keep me PK'd.

And I am going to recall what I said before; you posted the picture with the graphs, and insisted that those were the actual bullets that I used.
They were live rounds, and from what you didn't explain to the Admin team, you seem to have insisted that it actually was live rounds that were used, tipping the balance even more into your favor.

When you see somebody post the following;

Point blank equals dead, if he shot himself in the Chen, Likely dead

If he shot himself in the nose/mouth/face, Unless it Narrowly misses his spinal cord/brain (Unlikely) dead.

If hes shot himself in the Temporal area of the head He would likely be dead.

Gasmasks are not bullet broof. And when the hell did he load a blank into his gun?

It's quite evident that people are misinformed about the happenings during all of this.


What the admin team says can go for all I care, but I atleast want this resolved fairly, instead of having it tipped in the odds of somebody elses favor.

[Dug]

Please do point out where I have lied.
And it is very obvious I've put up a picture which you have given to me.
I also can not influnience on the whole admin team.
Everyone has a mind of their own.

And I won't give up just as you won't. Because I don't allow people to do whatever they god damn please.

[Dragon]

For starters, the picture of what I gave you was an example to show how big the round I was talking about in reference to the .44 magnum incident with the Blanks.
It was entirely irrelevant, yet you posted it anyway, saying; "This looks quite deadly to me, but to him it doesn't." To a live round, which would obviously influence the Admin Team to believe I was using a live round.


The closest thing to an actual picture of a 9X18mm blank is the 9X19mm PaK Blank.

Hardly seems lethal, and to think, 9x18mm is smaller than that.


And you can influence the Admin team, they have a mind of your own, but they make their descision with evidence, evidence that you have provided.
And it's worth noting that most of the evidence you posted was rather For your point of view, and against mine, hardly seems fair.

Ironic really, you do not allow people to do as they damn please, but yet you do it yourself, not giving that much of a thought to other people and instead catering to your own needs right now, to rather instead of give the situation a fair look, you balance the odds in your favor just so you can get your own way.


If you were a bit more open minded on the situation, and got another admin to overlook this instead of you calling the shots for all of this, then just maybe it could of worked out a lot better for both of us.