Things to help Traders in FoRP

Started by Khorn, 03-06-2011

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Khorn

#25
Don't blame the system on why Traders are inactive. Blame the server, the only complaints anyone ever bothered to tell me, where about silver's prices in the menu, and Wolf bitching that he gets no business since no one wants to buy from him. Why, I don't know.

And don't compare SRP to FRP, yes, we both have a tier system, but it's not as annoying as it was set up in SRP. You don't need to apply to get a rank up, you just need to be active and do a good job. Besides the fact there are only 2 flags mainly for gun dealers, the melee weapons list and the full gun list. Then the 3 special guns(Plasma X, Fatman, something)

So essentially, the tier system isn't even implemented. Only restrictions were related to keeping traders to their own professions, since in Fallout, people selling guns didn't sell all medicals, food, or armor. So the idea for Professions was built upon a basic Trader of the Fallout universe. And even the older games had a sort of tier system, the Gun Runners had some good, high priced guns, while others had little.


I was keeping to Fallout and trying to make players that are traders stay active and attempt to be promoted. But since Silver has no interest in changing anything, the idea basically died before it got anywhere, leaving a bad taste on the Trader's side of things.

I also would never allow even 20 traders. At this point, max traders would be either 12 or 16. In short, 3 or 4 traders per profession. If the merge occurs, then I will make Gun/Armor Trader be capped at 5 and the Medical and Food/General at 4. Since the latter two are more RP involved anyway, and even less likely to be applied for since it doesn't bring in the caps as much.

Paintcheck

Quote from: Khorn on 04-06-2011
Don't blame the system on why Traders are inactive. Blame the server, the only complaints anyone ever bothered to tell me, where about silver's prices in the menu, and Wolf bitching that he gets no business since no one wants to buy from him. Why, I don't know.

And don't compare SRP to FRP, yes, we both have a tier system, but it's not as annoying as it was set up in SRP. You don't need to apply to get a rank up, you just need to be active and do a good job. Besides the fact there are only 2 flags mainly for gun dealers, the melee weapons list and the full gun list. Then the 3 special guns(Plasma X, Fatman, something)

So essentially, the tier system isn't even implemented. Only restrictions were related to keeping traders to their own professions, since in Fallout, people selling guns didn't sell all medicals, food, or armor. So the idea for Professions was built upon a basic Trader of the Fallout universe. And even the older games had a sort of tier system, the Gun Runners had some good, high priced guns, while others had little.


I was keeping to Fallout and trying to make players that are traders stay active and attempt to be promoted. But since Silver has no interest in changing anything, the idea basically died before it got anywhere, leaving a bad taste on the Trader's side of things.

I also would never allow even 20 traders. At this point, max traders would be either 12 or 16. In short, 3 or 4 traders per profession. If the merge occurs, then I will make Gun/Armor Trader be capped at 5 and the Medical and Food/General at 4. Since the latter two are more RP involved anyway, and even less likely to be applied for since it doesn't bring in the caps as much.

No one is going to be anything other than a gun or armor trader  so trying to make medical and foodstuffs their own tier is going to result in nothing useful because no one buys though often enough to make it worth it for the trader. Tiers work in single player games because the traders don't care about standing around all day being interacted with very little because they are computers. Players do. Comparing the single player economies with GMod's doesn't work. There is no reason to put limits on traders because they just aren't active when they can't sell things.

Wolfinton

Quote from: Khorn on 04-06-2011
Don't blame the system on why Traders are inactive. Blame the server, the only complaints anyone ever bothered to tell me, where about silver's prices in the menu, and Wolf bitching that he gets no business since no one wants to buy from him. Why, I don't know.

I can easily explain why no one ever buys from me, Khorn. It's for two reasons, people ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS go to Kira for anything. Literally anything. Spades keeps on telling me he continuously gets asked for armour, yet I never, ever see these people. People always go to Kira for everything, meaning that my ammo flags are literally worthless to anyone other than me and my soldiers. Another thing is that Kira's Karbines gets treated as the "town" and not my actual town. By being treated as the "town" I mean that people go there to "rest" and have passive RP. I rarely ever see people come to my town, and when I go to her store to see how many people are there it tends to have many people.

You can say that I should go onto a different character, but I'm the only armour trader and am trying to run a major faction on that character.
Pink doesn't make me gay, it makes you homophobic.

Ralazo

The system is retarded anyways.
Back in the days on SRP it worked fine too, without the tier shit.
Traders had their occasional conflicts but that was all.

mxh24

#29
Quote from: Wolfinton on 05-06-2011
Quote from: Khorn on 04-06-2011
Don't blame the system on why Traders are inactive. Blame the server, the only complaints anyone ever bothered to tell me, where about silver's prices in the menu, and Wolf bitching that he gets no business since no one wants to buy from him. Why, I don't know.

I can easily explain why no one ever buys from me, Khorn. It's for two reasons, people ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS go to Kira for anything. Literally anything. Spades keeps on telling me he continuously gets asked for armour, yet I never, ever see these people. People always go to Kira for everything, meaning that my ammo
flags are literally worthless to anyone other than me and my soldiers. Another thing is that Kira's Karbines gets treated as the "town" and not my actual town. By being treated as the "town" I mean that people go there to "rest" and have passive RP. I rarely ever see people come to my town, and when I go to her store to see how many people are there it tends to have many people.You can say that I should go onto a different character, but I'm the only armour trader and am trying to run a major faction on that character.
I agree with this completely, I hardly (mostly never) get ANY business when Kira is on, and when she isn't people never need any guns or ammo, and with me only having roughly 600 caps I can never do anything like jobs or buy. What I am trying to say ( no offense to Kira) is that even after the change she will have the reputation that everyone will go to her, even if people have to redo their chars, they will still go to her because oocly they know her. the wipe will do nothing about everyone having equal amount of money, it will always be one person everyone goes to for sales. Correct me if you disagree...


"When in doubt, mumble."

Khorn

Again, that is why there is a fucking vote on top. This is your chance to get shit merged. But don't complain to me when Kira still runs the market, even when she isn't on.


There are no other way to make a trader want to stay active since our lack of players and since we have nothing to award thoses that stay active. There is nothing any SA can do to award good roleplay other then the adrewardplayer thing. And a trader would have no need for that if the become anything like Kira.

It be nice if you guys could provide alternative ideas instead of just putting hate on whatever I come up with. Since it is basically just me trying solve the trader issues.

Khorn

New idea needing new post since I write too much.

Merge all proffesions and tiers. Save the few special items. Rewards for promtoin will be a cash sum(yet to be determined) and a business upgrade(container,jukebox,autodoc,etc).

You can still buy the upgrades, but problem is that we need an SV to static the props and for containers.


Anyone willing to add or change the idea with less of "No, it's a bad idea, no reason why though?" Some of you still do that.


As for fixing the sales of armor, I still think lowering menu prices and introducing new or variants of what we have will increase sales. People like to be different looking. we could also have certain helmet-less armors. Have helmets to increase our current amount. Guns still need tweaking, such as the .44 gun. And is nice if we gained a bigger selection. Even if they aren't all directly from fallout.

Paintcheck

#32
STOP TRYING TO OVERCOMPLICATE IT. I don't know how I can say that clearer since that's what I've been saying since my first post. DO NOT MAKE TIERS. It is a terrible idea that has proven it doesn't work on SRP and here. Let everyone sell everything other than the restricted items like power armor and plasma and walk away. Specialization adds jack shit to the trader experience and no one is going to specialize in anything other than guns anyway because armor is too expensive to make all that many sales with (which means 99% of the time an armor trader will sit around doing nothing and earning nothing, thereby making them unable to climb the ranks because they aren't earning money, thereby leaving them stuck) and no one buys food or medicine ever, at least not in the amount guns and ammo are bought.

Don't merge professions GET RID OF THEM.

Khorn

#33
Okay, you've apparently decided not to read anymore.

By merging Profession, it essentially makes everyone sell the same shit. Except the special suits and guns.

Paintcheck

I AM reading. I don't understand this garbage about "Professions" and "tiers" and "ranks". Let that shit happen ON ITS OWN. Back in SRP shortly after the Trader's Union was disbanded but before all this garbage about shipments and tiers and "realism" traders earned reputations themselves and that worked fine to differentiate them. Let it be organic. It will require a lot less work on your part and will be a lot better for the traders than trying to micromanage and do all this shit.

Khorn

Well, for the last few post I said a MERGE to let all traders sell everything will happen. IF people vote it.

Your last few posts just kept telling me why professions and tiers are stupid.

And again, leave SRP trader's on SRP. We didn't have the same system. We don't have shipments except for the few SRP items in the menu. I didn't make Traders forced to apply for a tier if they wanted to sell. They had the choice to chose what they want if they ranked up.

It was free, and people had their choices to make.

Paintcheck

Because you keep going back to it. You keep saying "Merge professions" which I agree with and then you start talking about paying for upgrades and being rewarded for leveling up to the next tier which is where I am getting lost.

mxh24

You realize once you merge everything it is just going to be who has the best and/or bigger place, and the best reputation. Also wouldn't you think traders would be a bit OP'd? I just wish it would stay the same but people where other dealers   :-\


"When in doubt, mumble."

jaik

Quote from: mxh24 on 05-06-2011
Also wouldn't you think traders would be a bit OP'd?

Elaborate.
Blake.H: And im also working on whipping him into shape
Blake.H: He's nice
Blake.H: He doesn't moan
Blake.H: The sheer obedience is enough to fuel my erection anyway

Steven :D

Quote from: Jake on 05-06-2011
Quote from: mxh24 on 05-06-2011
Also wouldn't you think traders would be a bit OP'd?

Elaborate.
Kira and her group have a monopoly on the gun sales in FORP and tons of other shit too (Ammo, Caps etc.) She supplies her own people with guns out of her own pocket money who are absolutely loyal to her but are allowed to take other contracts AKA making her own mercenary force which the server doesn't need.


jaik

Quote from: Steven :D on 05-06-2011
Quote from: Jake on 05-06-2011
Quote from: mxh24 on 05-06-2011
Also wouldn't you think traders would be a bit OP'd?

Elaborate.
Kira and her group have a monopoly on the gun sales in FORP and tons of other shit too (Ammo, Caps etc.) She supplies her own people with guns out of her own pocket money who are absolutely loyal to her but are allowed to take other contracts AKA making her own mercenary force which the server doesn't need.

KK is not a major faction.
Kira can be robbed/attacked just like a usual wastelander roaming the wastes. Being a trader doesn't make you invulnerable from this.
By the way, you still have to be rational when robbing someone (don't take everything what the player has, etc.)
Blake.H: And im also working on whipping him into shape
Blake.H: He's nice
Blake.H: He doesn't moan
Blake.H: The sheer obedience is enough to fuel my erection anyway

Spades_Neil

#41
Quote from: Poopship on 04-06-2011
Yes to some degree, Spades gets A LOT of roleplay out of her shop.

I get overdosed on RP sometimes. O_o

No, the problem is when a trader is forced to act like an NPC. I try to avoid that with missions and stuff I do every now and then. In the past I thought trader-funded missions were a horrible idea economy-wise, but I soon realized I was wrong, and it's actually really fun.

The tricky part is getting the right mission ideas.




As for Tiers, which Paintcheck mentioned, I agree and yet disagree. I agree because it does overcomplicated stuff, yet I disagree because the noob fucknugget who just got his brand new T-flag could completely destroy the economy in a matter of hours if not properly regulated. I mean, we've SEEN what a free economy does in the real world. We're living in the aftermath. :P

I do want -some- tiers, but not so many. Cash flags I want to see enabled again. As for T-flag "tiers", it should be more black and white. Tier 1, no flags. Do it the old fashioned way buying/selling items. Tier 2, basically what we have now. Tier 3, bring out the big-fucking-guns. :D Or just void Tier 3 all together. Then it's not tiers, but flags VS no flags. I think the point of tiers is to put traders through a trial of sorts. Still, I do think Paintcheck is right that it's over complicated though. And I'm not helping because I'm rambling again. :P

We're not here to line our pockets. We're not here to act like NPCs. We're here to serve the community and make things a little more fun. At least that's my philosophy on it.

Quote from: Jake on 05-06-2011
Quote from: Steven :D on 05-06-2011
Quote from: Jake on 05-06-2011
Quote from: mxh24 on 05-06-2011
Also wouldn't you think traders would be a bit OP'd?

Elaborate.
Kira and her group have a monopoly on the gun sales in FORP and tons of other shit too (Ammo, Caps etc.) She supplies her own people with guns out of her own pocket money who are absolutely loyal to her but are allowed to take other contracts AKA making her own mercenary force which the server doesn't need.

KK is not a major faction.
Kira can be robbed/attacked just like a usual wastelander roaming the wastes. Being a trader doesn't make you invulnerable from this.
By the way, you still have to be rational when robbing someone (don't take everything what the player has, etc.)

Also yea. And I've -been- robbed at least once before. It's the whole reason I hire mercenaries in the first place. Because I'm not indestructible.

If you want money though, pay attention. Ask Kira for work. I don't always have that work, but when I do, the pay is lovely because I do in fact have caps to throw around that some other traders are either clinging on to or had to spend on their own faction.

Wolf is a fine example. He had to donate his fortune to his own faction, which abused the privilege and left him broke. Garret (FrozenFire) just doesn't have the money because people don't know about him yet. Kira is always in the same spot, always selling the same items, and IRL I'm a good businessman.

In addition, traders have rules to abide by that you don't. One, I'm not allowed to run around robbing people and pillaging or taking over towns and shit. That "overpowered" force is purely for my protection.



Also, you're missing some important factors. Having T-flags has nothing to do with my power. If you took away my T-flags right now, provided I'd be a little pissed off, but I traded firearms for a LONG TIME as Kira before T-flags were even allowed. I was still incredibly wealthy, with over 8,000 caps to blow. I don't need the T-flags to make a profit. I only need them to serve the RP community.

T-flags is a luxury. Not a requirement. I'd still hold my own without them.





P.S. I forgot to mention: My mercenaries can take independent contracts, but I don't earn a single cap from them. They wear the title of Kira's Karbines, but I earn none of that money. I pay them, in fact, to guard me. If they make external contracts, it is up to them, and they demand whatever payment they want from whoever employs them.

And no, I DON'T pay for them out of my own pocket, actually. I pay for their services. I don't pay for their guns. I don't buy their ammo. I sometimes buy their armor, but force them to pay me back.

Gentlemen, please, check your sources.

Spades_Neil

Quote from: Khorn on 05-06-2011
As for fixing the sales of armor, I still think lowering menu prices and introducing new or variants of what we have will increase sales. People like to be different looking. we could also have certain helmet-less armors. Have helmets to increase our current amount. Guns still need tweaking, such as the .44 gun. And is nice if we gained a bigger selection. Even if they aren't all directly from fallout.

Also, EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID. PLEASE.

It's roleplay. That means there's going to be an element of fan fiction. Before I go off rambling like I usually do, I'll put it pure and simple; if we wanted to be perfectly like Fallout, then HERPDERP WE'D PLAY FALLOUT. But you guys know that. I'm preaching to the choir.

We need new weapons.
We need new armor.
We need new UNIQUE stuff.

I remember when the Combat Shotgun was introduced. People wanted to piss away upwards of 6000, 8000, 10000 caps! Guess what? THE GUN SUCKS BALLS. Ah, but for a time, it was unique!

I used to have an AK-74u (not sure how that got into the game). I lost it because of a bad server crash. It was unique. Only reason I still want it back to this day.



But yes, these weapons need serious tweaking. The Makarov shoots better than the goddamn magnum.

Paintcheck

Due to the fucked up quoting system I can't quote it properly but free markets are the only way to go in a game like this (and some would argue irl as well). I think you're more worried about losing your monopoly on guns and ammo than what will actually happen to the server because I don't see how having a bunch of active traders competing for business (which lowers prices in the real world and in the game world) would be worse than a monopoly/imperfect competition (which is what FO is now). Base price wouldn't change so unless the traders wanted to lose money on every sale they couldn't start handing shit out for free. Why are you so scared of "Some n00b trader with his T flag ruining things"? What could he ruin? He's not going to have the money to buy anything expensive and just hand it out for free and there are far easier and less complicated ways to grief the server (most of which don't require getting 20+ posts on the forum and admin recommendations).

And stop bringing up "We need more gear". That's not going to happen. Silver's working on Crussaria now.