Proposition: The New BoS & FRA Agreement

[Blake.H]

After conferring with our server admins we have come to a conclusion on how the issues between the FRA and BoS can be solved.


The Proposition


We propose that the BoS stay in their bunker, at all times, unless they have DIRECT authorisation to leave the bunker from the Elder (This can be done over SF if he isn't in the server.). This means the BoS will not be running around the wasteland or loitering around Rust Town without permission.

Once the Elder gives permission it expires when you leave the server. Meaning if you disconnect and then reconnect an hour later you will need to request permission to leave the bunker again.

On Frankies Republic side they will no longer be asking for 'rent', as this is not fair on the BoS, its the same as exploiting the map.


Written in Stone

During the event all BoS members died and have NLR'd, The leader of Vault 10 is severely injured, due to a hit from a laser rifle on an unprotected body and will be having a Self TI.

The BoS Bunker does not have:
- A hydrophonic lab[Full Stop]
- A 'Deeper Bunker'. Its blocked off like the map portrays, there is no-one inside[Full Stop]
- A Fission reactor in the 'deeper bunker'. You have generators which require fuel.[Full Stop]
- A 'Perfect' water purifier. Though you have a pre-war one which does NOT remove radioactive particles, and does not suffice for a 'permanent' solution to lack of drinkable water[Full Stop]

The BoS Power armour is not:
- 'Tank Armour'. It is steel plates held together by rivets. A Chinese or Normal assault rifle can penetrate though but 60% of the rounds will not[Full Stop]
- Withstand a clean, "medium-close" range head shot, from any rifle. The helmet is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than the body armour[Full Stop]
- Reflect every laser. The T-51b Can withstand laser pistols/rifles to an extent. The Brotherhood of Steel power armour can Not, you are almost certainly going to feel the burn[Full Stop]

Frankies Republic may not:
- Kick the BoS out of the bunker. Due to the map[Full Stop]




Thank you for reading this, and please note any spam/unconstrained comments will be removed.

[RG4ORDR]

And the Vault Dwellers need to stop becoming a rival force in the wasteland
So far I've seen to beat a woman,kill a man,shoot a man in shoulder,make fucking FULL AUTO LASER PISTOLS.
that better fucking stop you guys aren't the Enclave,BoS,NCR,or the Gun runners

[Blake.H]

And the Vault Dwellers ......... or the Gun runners

We have attacked group of wasters due to their attitude of which one round from a laser pistol was fired.
We have also been engaged in a Peace conference with FRA & the BoS which turned sour.

Now, Back on topic.

[Rebel6609]

I refuse to have that NLR'd with the vault dwellers "Severely wounded". You lot would have been killed by me in that room. Since none of you cared to "reload" after that unorganized full auto at me. Heres what I have to say on this matter, and most people will agree with me on it.

When I entered that house and turned the corner with my rifle aimed after seeing you kill my comrades, I immediately shot at Hessen since he was the first target I saw. Ignoring this, you all brought your guns up in a quick second and shot at me with (and this is not including Hessen since he would have been down)

a chinese assault rifle (Was sprayed FULL AUTO at me so I doubt any more than 5 rounds would hit me, let alone penetrate fully through the thick metal plating in front).

A 10mm (Obviously no damage other than scratched paint)

And a Laser pistol (which somehow managed to fire 30 rounds in 2 seconds. Btw thats 2 clips).

I agree that the laser would do damage to me, nothing to lethal though. I did /me falls backwards into the wall behind him, but starts getting up firing at the vault dweller in the security outfit.   which was atleast 2 -3 rounds.

Lets look at the power armor facts here.
1) The BoS power armor was made as an early model to withstand conventional ammunition. Its got a very thick front plating, as well as a thick plated helmet able to withstand multiple rounds.

2) True, the suit is not meant for laser rounds, but the rounds shot at me by a VAULT DWELLER under a paniced situation. Minor damage was to be done to me, such as the suit's front plate heating up and possibly melting.

Now, What I propose on that little RP is that atleast EVERYONE NLR's. Because vault dwellers aren't trained soldiers, they aren't marksman and they certainly will be beaten in any fight.

However, hostilities between FR and BoS are to great. And having us hide in the bunker forever unless auth'd by cannon is ridiculous. Atleast give the power to authorize that to the heads.

[RanmaChan]

I only said we had a water purifier and a hydroponics lab because I didn't know the full extent of our operations.

However, we should have some sort of old pre-war water purification tech.  I mean, its a bunker, it should have some sort of technology like that installed.  The water won't be perfect, but we should at least be able to sustain ourselves on it.

We don't have a fission reactor in the bunker (I don't remember anyone ever saying that there was another level to the bunker outside the map, but whatever), but we should have some sort of pre-war generators installed the run the lights and terminals we have.  Again, come on, its a bunker.  The BoS should be providing Rust Town (or whatever it is) with power in this case, I don't see them having working generators actually installed anywhere.

I understand your qualms about the power armor, I am a Scribe, so it is not my say.  Just remember though, there is metal armor in Fallout already.  Power armor isn't just metal and rivets, it was created by the U.S army to withstand conventional Chinese weaponry.  Anyways, since we are going to be taking this hit to our armors effectiveness, I propose that we be given more suits for members who should already ICly be wearing it.

The FRA seems to be getting off pretty lightly in this deal.  Sure they can't kick us out, but that was already the consensus anyways.  I propose they stop asking us for rent.  That just doesn't make sense.  :/

[Blake.H]

Rebel:

First off you were roughly 2 and a half meters away from the group, penetration power would be at the max, Paint Check Agrees with me.

You were hit by two AK's, 20-30 rounds will have hit you, Paint Check Agrees with me again.

At LEAST 5 rounds would have penetrated your chest, Paint Check Agrees with me again.

The Laser pistol has 30 Rounds - Go read: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Laser_Pistol_(Fallout_3)

The T-45d (Brotherhood of steel Armour), is fairly poor at close range, opon reading the Wikia it was produced to allow the user to carry heavy ordinance easily (Missile Launchers and the Likings). And the armour was a bonus which stopped mediumlong-range fire, not close quarter combat.

While the T-45d armor is similar in its overall shape to the more advanced T-51b power armor, it is significantly less advanced than its later counterpart, and uses riveted steel plates instead of plastic composite materials in its construction. Various electronic and mechanical subsystems of the armor are exposed on the outside of its casing rather than sealed within as in the T-51b, making it far more susceptible to damage.

The 'Vault Dweller' as you refer to him as is The Old Security Chief - Trained in Close quarter combat (Not going to need long range in a vault are you?)



RanmaChan:
Its been added to Proposition about the Rent.

BoS Does not have.....
- A 'Perfect' water purifier. Though you have a pre-war one which does NOT remove radioactive particles, and does not suffice for a 'permanent' solution to lack of drinkable water.

[RG4ORDR]

In 2067, the first suit of T-45d power armor was deployed in Alaska during the start of the Anchorage Reclamation in the midst of the Sino-American War. This power armor was incredibly effective against Chinese tanks and infantry. Its ability to allow a single infantryman to carry heavy ordinance that otherwise required a team of soldiers to transport and operate became key in various localized conflicts on the Alaskan front, and it allowed American soldiers wearing the armor to destroy entire towns occupied by Chinese troops without endangering themselves. In 2076, the more advanced T-51b power armor variant was introduced into combat duty.
It's also stated that you used a fully automatic laser pistol which is impossible and I heard a conversation about you guys being in stasis and an AI explaining to you while you people were in stasis

[RanmaChan]

Did you delete my post, or did it not post properly?  Oh well.

I am glad that you have decided to include the issue of the rent in the proposition.  It is good that you are willing to make concessions to our side.

I would still like the issues of electricity generation and power armor distribution to be discussed.

[Blake.H]

In 2067, the first suit of T............... you people were in stasis

This power armor was incredibly effective against Chinese tanks and infantry. Its ability to allow a single infantryman to carry heavy ordinance that otherwise required a team of soldiers to transport and operate became key in various localized conflicts on the Alaskan front, and it allowed American soldiers wearing the armor to destroy entire towns occupied by Chinese troops without endangering themselves.

Put 1 and 2 together, heavy ordinance in my opinion would be;
Gatling Lasers/guns, effective at long to medium range.
Missile Launchers, Effective at long to medium range.
Fatmans, Effective at long rang and medium long range.
And other stuff which would require a TEAM to operate/carry.

They wouldn't be endangering themselves due to the fact they are at Medium to long range, where conventional weapons are ineffective.





You cant comment on vault if you haven't read it fully. If you have i'd suggest reading it again and again until you get the picture.

[RG4ORDR]

And it allowed American soldiers wearing the armor to destroy entire towns occupied by Chinese troops without endangering themselves
Basically It means 1 soldier clad in that armor could take entire town full of Chinese soldiers without getting harmed

[Blake.H]

They wouldn't be endangering themselves due to the fact they are at Medium to long range, where conventional weapons are ineffective.

It means what it says.

it allowed American soldiers wearing the armor to destroy entire towns occupied by Chinese troops

[Paintcheck]

They wouldn't be endangering themselves due to the fact they are at Medium to long range, where conventional weapons are ineffective.

It means what it says.

it allowed American soldiers wearing the armor to destroy entire towns occupied by Chinese troops

I would think that means they could hang out about 500 meters from the down and drop missiles on it or Fatmen from that distance. I don't think they can just wade in unopposed.

Anyways, since we are going to be taking this hit to our armors effectiveness, I propose that we be given more suits for members who should already ICly be wearing it.

If I can't get power armor for my US Government supplied and maintained force then you certainly can't either. As of right now the BoS has MORE power armor and MORE laser/high tech weapons than the Enclave does. But that's a different topic.

[Rebel6609]

Whatever blake. Obviously you can't tell a story properly to anyone without making you seem like you had the upper hand entirely. Enjoy your little super elite army trained assassin ninja vault dweller. I could hardly care anymore.

And I'm not agreeing to proposition. These things should be done ICly, and I don't want to be locked away in the bunker my entire time roleplaying on the server. I will continue to deal with this ICly (if cannon allows me) and reach an agreement like that. And if theres no agreement made, obviously the factions will war. Thats natural politics for you.

[Aresty]

So to end hostilities you just locked us inside a bunker. Smart. I say you should leave this bullshit and let us deal with ICly, not OOCly. It's just dumb, but that's my 2 cents.
And this isn't NV, BoS aren't low on numbers. I can't see why Paladin+ can't lead small patrols on their own.

[Paintcheck]

The 'Vault Dweller' as you refer to him as is The Old Security Chief - Trained in Close quarter combat (Not going to need long range in a vault are you?)

I would imagine Vault Security Chiefs are trained more like cops and less like soldiers. BOS has the upper hand in that case. I still think Rebel is dead due to being shot at by 3 people from close range at once but I think Blake you are giving your Vault Dwellers far greater combat capability than they would have.

[Ragolution]

It appears I have the strongest opinion in this, aside Blake who is obviously steamrolling everyone into submission.

That's not my point, though.

It was observed, in LOOC, when I explained we did not have a Hydroponics lab, we did not have a perfect water purifier and a "Deeper Bunker" was never even mentioned, so one could only beg why that wasn't brought up. If in reference to the 'sealed door' mention I had toward the Fission Complex we had, then you misinterpreted it. Still not my main point.

My biggest gripe (and it's exactly that, a gripe) is the fact that Blake fired. Two clips. Of laser shots. In less than seconds.
And he keeps fucking ignoring it.
This is what's nagging at the back of my head the hardest. Regardless of the AK shots, there is no way this could've occured.
The clip silver designed has 20 or 15 shots. I forget.
But it's not that important, I guess.

This is turning into a shitstorm and I do not want it to be quite that dramatic.
I will state everything as it is seen from my vantage.

The BoS will return to its bunker, for the most part, but Patrols will be authorized when given issue by the Head Knight and every Paladin in addition to the Elder. Aside that, no one is to be outside the bunker, other than the SINGLE INITIATE WHO WILL GUARD THE DOOR AND NOT LEAVE HIS POST. (That's a low-blow at someone.) Should supply runs, or other vital operations become precedent (Such as Operation Turkey-Hunt) become necessary, they will need to be approved by the Elder, and submitted in writing either on the forums or through SF.

I'm obviously going to agree with the fact that Power Armor won the US army a war they were losing with its plated power armor, and for some reason I doubt the Joules figures you supplied.

The biggest issue with the joules and deflectment and resistance is that you don't explain what you mean. If an AK-47 emits a bullet with 2Kj of force, that's fine, but you define the Power Armor's resistance as 2Kj without any specifics. Through theory, I would suggest it punctures the armor like a syringe into a tomato, and leaves a tiny bullet-hole; possibly damaging the servos and circuitry inside or harming the wearer if he wasn't wearing kevlar or something. That is, if the bullet's energy achieves something higher than 2Kjoules.

From what I understand, with an upper limit of 2Kj of resistance, the AK's bullet would be the highest calibur deflected. It's not like a gauge or a health bar, where it piles ontop of itself. That is, unless you somehow got two bullets into every hole. Each bullet has so much energy, and if the Power Armor is designed to withstand the 2Kj contained in an AK-47 bullet, then your story is bullshit, Blake. It makes sense, really. Why would you make armor that didn't deflect bullets from your enemy's most common gun?

Returning to the lasers topic, they would likely fry the Power Armor's circuits, if they hit in the neck, the arm joints or the waist area. Other than that, it would heat up the plates, risking the melting of the circuitry and damaging the interface system if the beams were perfectly focused, one ontop of the other. They would scorch the plate, at best, and make the wearer uncomfortable, but cause no real damage as the body plate became warm, or scalding if focused enough. Again, risking the circuits, but not the operator.

This is coming to blows that don't need to be shed.

I agree that the BoS failed the situation, but the way in which it was forced was intolerable.

You have seen my prefered modifications to the agreement and that is what I truly wish to be taken away.

This thread should be only disputing the utility of Power Armor and the sheer result of the recent battle.

And the Vault Dwellers need to stop becoming a rival force in the wasteland
So far I've seen to beat a woman,kill a man,shoot a man in shoulder,make fucking FULL AUTO LASER PISTOLS.
that better fucking stop you guys aren't the Enclave,BoS,NCR,or the Gun runners

(Stuff like this) is heavily relevant but not to be discussed in this thread.
Please stay on topic.


Edit; I apologize if I seem angry or bitchy, but I'm posting from work.

[Ragolution]

Whatever blake. Obviously you can't tell a story properly to anyone without making you seem like you had the upper hand entirely. Enjoy your little super elite army trained assassin ninja vault dweller. I could hardly care anymore.

And I'm not agreeing to proposition. These things should be done ICly, and I don't want to be locked away in the bunker my entire time roleplaying on the server. I will continue to deal with this ICly (if cannon allows me) and reach an agreement like that. And if theres no agreement made, obviously the factions will war. Thats natural politics for you.

Allowed.

[Blake.H]

I believe that this is mainly solved now between the Proposition with BoS and FRP - you have to work out the fine points between your selfs this was just my and Paintchecks idea.

Its the T-45b that stops 2kJ's, the T-45d (What you use) is unspecified but probably roughly  the same..

I believe that the Power Armor won the US army a war they were losing because of the fact they could carry heavy ordinance, like it states on the wikia as its purpose, to destroy entire towns or camps. From medium to long range where conventional weapons are infective!

Still all of its been approved by an SA, thus written in stone for now unless reworked later....


And the Vaulters are not a rival force, they are mostly just acting in defense and trying to protect their bunker, for now.



This thread is now locked.

[Paintcheck]

You are railroading this Blake. What I said to you was:

"Yes I agree Rebel is probably dead from all those shots at close range and that YOU AND THE BoS SHOULD WORK THIS OUT ON YOUR OWN BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE WHAT HAPPENED"

You then told me in SF that you and Ragolution were discussing what I called the "musical bunker idea" and asked me if I thought that was a good solution. I said "Yes IF Ragolution and the BoS are agreeing with it"[/b] and you said you would work it out with them. Now I come on and see you are taking what were SUGGESTIONS I MADE BASED ON THE LITTLE I KNEW ABOUT THE EVENT and saying "Paintcheck says this is all LAW" which is not at all what I said last night. The only "ruling" I made last night was "Rebel is dead from being shot from that close by 3 people at once and the guy Rebel shot is also dead and the rest of you are probably wounded a bit." I did not say "Vault Dwellers may take over the bunker and town and steamroll the BoS". I said that your proposal seemed ok to me but that it was up to you and the BoS to work it out on your own.

Unlocked because it seems this isn't done yet.

And I also didn't touch on your "Full auto 30 round laser pistol" at all but since that has suddenly become a big issue:

30 rounds in 2 seconds is 15 rounds per second or 800 rounds per minute. That is as fast as a full auto M-4 shoots. The Fallout laser guns do not shoot ANYWHERE near that fast. At all. I'd guess they go around 250 rpm based on FO3 and NV and even that is probably a bit on the fast side. You'd overheat like MAD at that kind of RoF and there's no way battery technology could keep outputting however many watts of power the Laser pistol outputs at 800 rpm. I told that to Rebel when he first asked me about my opinions about who's dead and who's alive.

EDIT: According to the FO3 wiki the AEP 7 can shoot 6 times per second. That's 360 rpm, or about HALF of what you are proposing Blake.  (scroll down to the table  http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Colonel_Autumn%27s_laser_pistol)

[Bielecki]

Just have STK fights like normal people.

Large scale RP fights are just awful, they should be burned in a fire.

[RG4ORDR]

Taking note here with the AK. It's chambers a 5.56, not 7.62,a 7.62 wouldn't even be found in wasteland to be honest (cept Russia maybe)
Also the weapon that was used ISN"T an AK-47 it's a Chinese Assault rifle (who ever knows the name of it)

[Ragolution]

Taking note here with the AK. It's chambers a 5.56, not 7.62,a 7.62 wouldn't even be found in wasteland to be honest (cept Russia maybe)
Also the weapon that was used ISN"T an AK-47 it's a Chinese Assault rifle (who ever knows the name of it)

If it looks like an AK, reports like an AK and smells like an AK....

[Blake.H]

I never mentioned the laser pistol was full auto. Regardless this topic is done with regards to the Proposition and the event, they are covered as the topic intended, if there's anything else put it in a new thread in the appropriate forums.

Locked and Archived.