Here we go again. (The re-death of FORP)

[Mr. Pink]

Before we get too overly dramatic about it (and by 'we' I mostly mean 'me' because I'm like that >_>). Hell, I'm already inviting people to reboot the server for the day and un-killing the server. Still, I must detail the following statement;

There is one, very simple, easily fixable problem that is out of my control to repair.

I saw this coming long before it happened. Soon as the older players started returning who helped fuck it up in the first place, the problems started again. Now that isn't to say all of the old players are a problem. However, when you have a character who is a bandit/robber/whatever, you tend to ruin roleplay for everyone else because you're too interested in getting items to roleplay. It needs to stop.

Unless Last.Exile himself decides to kick a particular handful of people out of HGN, there's nothing I can do. The people I speak of are tolerated far too well in this community.

We all know you dislike Plunger. He's not why your server is failing. The only person on FORP who truly buttfucked the server the first time was CommanderA/Anton/RanmaChan and he rage quit eons ago. Plunger is a good scapegoat for everything because for some reason Silver constantly blames everything he possibly can on him but that's bullshit and everyone who isn't retarded (I realize that is only like 3 people on the FO side but...) knows that. Your issue is the same as it always has been: FORP's average player is a dumbass who thinks he's playing FO: NV and doesn't understand that RP is not entirely about items and winning (and it wasn't all that long ago that you were one of those people Spades). That has been FO's problem since Silver decided to remove the FRA and Enclave and redo everything. Fix that and you will have better RP. Blaming Plunger is stupid and won't get you anywhere.

Mr. Pink HGN has been hosting STALKER for like 3 years now so if anything is a reskin it's FO being a reskin of SRP. I know when the server first launched myself and the other faction heads tried our absolute hardest to make sure it wasn't just "STALKER: The Shadow of Ohio" and had a fair amount of success with it. The difference between the 2 servers is people on the SRP server are much better at passiving and not entirely driven by greed...well at least they are less greedy. I think part of that is because the STALKER games do a VERY good job of making the player never feel powerful. FO, on the other hand (well at least the 2 most recent ones that people have played), tries its hardest to make you feel invincible, especially FO3 which is probably the game 99.9% of the players on the FO server played. This means that in STALKER people knew what it was like to feel weak and the SP characters they played translated well into MP. STALKER is a scarier game because you are weaker. FO on the other hand makes the player character an unstoppable badass. Guess what 90% of the people on the FO server try being? The Lone Wanderer/The Courier. Part of that is because they are powergaming fucktards but the other part is that they are playing the RP game the exact same way as they played the SP game. In STALKER that is fine because your SP character is rather weak (especially if you play on high difficulty settings). In FO it isn't.

Maxi there is no way in hell the S.T.A.L.K.E.R series is as popular as FO. You're flat out wrong and you calling people stupid only makes you look like more of an ass. STALKER didn't even launch on consoles, FO3 and FO:NV did, and the FO brand is far more recognized than S.T.A.L.K.E.R is. I would be willing to bet FO3 by itself probably sold more copies than the 3 STALKERs combined and I absolutely guarantee that FO 3 and NV definitely did.

I know, I already accepted the fact that the Stalker server has been around longer. Anyways, I feel that the new players that show up on FRP are about 50/50 as far as greed is concerned. The greedy ones usually turn out to be minges. I agree that we need to bring the Enclave back, but for some reason Jake decided to stop letting people join it... Now it's only him. We need that bit of fear thrown back into the mix. Khorn's been doing good with his raider attacks and kidnappings. But we need something a little bigger, more constant, such as the Enclave, to get some good RPing going. Plus now that the Brotherhood are back in power the Enclave just up and dissapeared. Now the Brotherhood is just sitting around on their asses gathering tech...

[jaik]

Before we get too overly dramatic about it (and by 'we' I mostly mean 'me' because I'm like that >_>). Hell, I'm already inviting people to reboot the server for the day and un-killing the server. Still, I must detail the following statement;

There is one, very simple, easily fixable problem that is out of my control to repair.

I saw this coming long before it happened. Soon as the older players started returning who helped fuck it up in the first place, the problems started again. Now that isn't to say all of the old players are a problem. However, when you have a character who is a bandit/robber/whatever, you tend to ruin roleplay for everyone else because you're too interested in getting items to roleplay. It needs to stop.

Unless Last.Exile himself decides to kick a particular handful of people out of HGN, there's nothing I can do. The people I speak of are tolerated far too well in this community.

We all know you dislike Plunger. He's not why your server is failing. The only person on FORP who truly buttfucked the server the first time was CommanderA/Anton/RanmaChan and he rage quit eons ago. Plunger is a good scapegoat for everything because for some reason Silver constantly blames everything he possibly can on him but that's bullshit and everyone who isn't retarded (I realize that is only like 3 people on the FO side but...) knows that. Your issue is the same as it always has been: FORP's average player is a dumbass who thinks he's playing FO: NV and doesn't understand that RP is not entirely about items and winning (and it wasn't all that long ago that you were one of those people Spades). That has been FO's problem since Silver decided to remove the FRA and Enclave and redo everything. Fix that and you will have better RP. Blaming Plunger is stupid and won't get you anywhere.

Mr. Pink HGN has been hosting STALKER for like 3 years now so if anything is a reskin it's FO being a reskin of SRP. I know when the server first launched myself and the other faction heads tried our absolute hardest to make sure it wasn't just "STALKER: The Shadow of Ohio" and had a fair amount of success with it. The difference between the 2 servers is people on the SRP server are much better at passiving and not entirely driven by greed...well at least they are less greedy. I think part of that is because the STALKER games do a VERY good job of making the player never feel powerful. FO, on the other hand (well at least the 2 most recent ones that people have played), tries its hardest to make you feel invincible, especially FO3 which is probably the game 99.9% of the players on the FO server played. This means that in STALKER people knew what it was like to feel weak and the SP characters they played translated well into MP. STALKER is a scarier game because you are weaker. FO on the other hand makes the player character an unstoppable badass. Guess what 90% of the people on the FO server try being? The Lone Wanderer/The Courier. Part of that is because they are powergaming fucktards but the other part is that they are playing the RP game the exact same way as they played the SP game. In STALKER that is fine because your SP character is rather weak (especially if you play on high difficulty settings). In FO it isn't.

Maxi there is no way in hell the S.T.A.L.K.E.R series is as popular as FO. You're flat out wrong and you calling people stupid only makes you look like more of an ass. STALKER didn't even launch on consoles, FO3 and FO:NV did, and the FO brand is far more recognized than S.T.A.L.K.E.R is. I would be willing to bet FO3 by itself probably sold more copies than the 3 STALKERs combined and I absolutely guarantee that FO 3 and NV definitely did.

I know, I already accepted the fact that the Stalker server has been around longer. Anyways, I feel that the new players that show up on FRP are about 50/50 as far as greed is concerned. The greedy ones usually turn out to be minges. I agree that we need to bring the Enclave back, but for some reason Jake decided to stop letting people join it... Now it's only him. We need that bit of fear thrown back into the mix. Khorn's been doing good with his raider attacks and kidnappings. But we need something a little bigger, more constant, such as the Enclave, to get some good RPing going. Plus now that the Brotherhood are back in power the Enclave just up and dissapeared. Now the Brotherhood is just sitting around on their asses gathering tech...

Last time I tried to do something with the Enclave ended up with the whole playerbase blaming me for killing Fallout RP.

[Paintcheck]

You're never going to please everyone. Only the shit players will complain about the Enclave (assuming the Enclave aren't horribly power gaming)

[mxh24]

You're never going to please everyone. Only the shit players will complain about the Enclave (assuming the Enclave aren't horribly power gaming)

Shit makes sense bro...
(They mostly powergame though :P)

[Spades_Neil]

You're never going to please everyone. Only the shit players will complain about the Enclave (assuming the Enclave aren't horribly power gaming)

[Mr. Pink]

-Snip

Last time I tried to do something with the Enclave ended up with the whole playerbase blaming me for killing Fallout RP.

Well, what you were doing many people considered powergaming. You could attempt to RP without the powergaming? Enclave may be strong, but they aren't invincible. Even though they have their high-tech armor and weaponry, they're still just human underneath it all, and should be played as such.

[Plunger]

ITT we pin the blame on patsy's instead of trying to fix it.

[jaik]

Well, what you were doing many people considered powergaming. You could attempt to RP without the powergaming? Enclave may be strong, but they aren't invincible. Even though they have their high-tech armor and weaponry, they're still just human underneath it all, and should be played as such.

What are you smoking? I never powergamed. List at least one incident where I was powergaming on my Enclave character.

[Ravanger]

everybody love everybody!
*Thinks up something smart.* Maybe you should all come together on some sort of agreement since really it would be all your faults in this reality,also whats paintcheck doing here I thought he was dead or something.
I think really you should all take blame and just find a way to hopefully make it better in some way or form. I mean SRP has been getting bad lately considering how long we been around and I been trying to atleast somewhat keep order and control.
As well I think you should atleast try to come to some sort of truce or peace between each other which I did on the admin team many times when shit hit the fan.  Atleast try look at the brighter side of fallout as well and try to build on that and perhaps if Jake does seem to be getting out of line which I am not saying he is just give him a simple heads up and not cause a giant shit storm about it. Same with a lot of the other folks on FRP if they getting out of line simply direct them personally if you can and atleast try to come to some agreement. Its not good seeing two admins at each other's throats all the time from what I seen.

[meetdadoom]

Alright, most of you know my main problems with FoRP. So I am just going to say the main points to fix Fallout roleplay.
We need to restart. We need to make a new location. We need new factions that do not include BoS or Enclave or NCR etc. What we seriouslly need is we need to make our roleplay and story different then the generic fallout rp server. We need to make an interesting canon that can grab the attention of good roleplayers. I think we need to go back to how the trading system worked. No trade menu. People however can apply for trader which means you build the rifles yourself or you make the drugs yourself or you have a supplier. Every week you get an X amount of equipment a week.

[mxh24]

Alright, most of you know my main problems with FoRP. So I am just going to say the main points to fix Fallout roleplay.
We need to restart. We need to make a new location. We need new factions that do not include BoS or Enclave or NCR etc. What we seriouslly need is we need to make our roleplay and story different then the generic fallout rp server. We need to make an interesting canon that can grab the attention of good roleplayers. I think we need to go back to how the trading system worked. No trade menu. People however can apply for trader which means you build the rifles yourself or you make the drugs yourself or you have a supplier. Every week you get an X amount of equipment a week.

That is taking the 'FO' out of FORP...

You're basically saying change it to a normal SRP server?

[jaik]

Alright, most of you know my main problems with FoRP. So I am just going to say the main points to fix Fallout roleplay.
We need to restart. We need to make a new location. We need new factions that do not include BoS or Enclave or NCR etc. What we seriouslly need is we need to make our roleplay and story different then the generic fallout rp server. We need to make an interesting canon that can grab the attention of good roleplayers. I think we need to go back to how the trading system worked. No trade menu. People however can apply for trader which means you build the rifles yourself or you make the drugs yourself or you have a supplier. Every week you get an X amount of equipment a week.

What you describe is pretty much a generic apoc RP with Fallout backstory, I wouldn't mind such theme in fact. Unfortunately (for today's playerbase) this kind of RP requires a lot of passive actions and isn't packed with adrenaline pumping action.

[Paintcheck]

Alright, most of you know my main problems with FoRP. So I am just going to say the main points to fix Fallout...

What you describe is pretty much a generic apoc RP with Fallout backstory, I wouldn't mind such theme in fact. Unfortunately (for today's playerbase) this kind of RP requires a lot of passive actions and isn't packed with adrenaline pumping action.

Which is why fo isn't attracting good players. It's generic fo with a bad player base. Meetdadoom's idea is bad also since that's not fo. part of the sever's decline earlier was because Silver removed all the fo elements. Removing them again leaves you with an even MORE generic setting. Might as well axe it in that case since it will be stalker and use the resources for something else.

[Tom]

I wish we had Old FRA, with Old enclave, and the current BoS we have now, back in the old cannon. I loved the server after it originally launched. Then Silver decided to "Micromanage" and remove anything that would normally appose the BoS and removed anything that anyone would normally fear, so the BoS became super powerful, Steel Town came into exsistance, and the Waster was 100% safe, thus the server got boring and thusly everyone left. Now-a-days we don't have a problem with there being a lack of things to fear or fight, we just have confusion on Cannon, and generic cannon, and such, making for a server full of confused Lone Wanderers.

[meetdadoom]

Alright, most of you know my main problems with FoRP. So I am just going to say the main points to fix Fallout...

What you describe is pretty much a generic apoc RP with Fallout backstory, I wouldn't mind such theme in fact. Unfortunately (for today's playerbase) this kind of RP requires a lot of passive actions and isn't packed with adrenaline pumping action.

Which is why fo isn't attracting good players. It's generic fo with a bad player base. Meetdadoom's idea is bad also since that's not fo. part of the sever's decline earlier was because Silver removed all the fo elements. Removing them again leaves you with an even MORE generic setting. Might as well axe it in that case since it will be stalker and use the resources for something else.

MXH
     So you're saying basically that the Zone wouldn't be the Zone without Duty?

Paintcheck,
       I understand that your point is that BoS is a reapearing faction in every fallout therfore, it should be a major faction. What you don't understand is fallout can still be Fallout without the BoS and Enclave. Fallout canon is still there even if BoS aren't there. The wasteland in New York is still fallout because the city is blown up and there are super mutants and raiders and clunky robots going mad and Vaults and lets not forget the best part of fallout, Nuka Cola. Fallout can still go on with out BoS and Enclave. The reason why something like this wouldn't be called the Road Warrior RP is because the road warrior takes place in the 80s/90s when the nuclear war happened. There are no super mutants in the Road warrior canon. There are no robots in Road Warrior canon. There are no energy weapons. There are no Ghouls. There are no Vaults. There are no 50s themes.
        Here is a good example of locations in fallout canon that has no BoS or Enclave and is still fallout. The Pit dlc. There are no BoS, there are no Enclave yet, we still play the the pit going YAH FALLOUT WOOT WOOT!!! Same thing goes for Point Look Out. The reason why we still play The Pit, Point Look Out and etc. going YAH FALLOUT is because of the core of the fallout. The part that makes fallout...fallout. The core is what the 50's thought the future would be like with clunky robots, Nuclear powered everything, nuka cola, energy weapons and then there is the vaults (which should be the only faction that can be a reappearing faction) and then super mutants and ghouls and etc. You are basically saying that Point Look out is not fallout because it does not have BoS and Enclave.
Ps: I hope you do know the Road warrior, if not I can change that to something more suitable.
       
Jake,
    Why do you have little hope? And who said that we can't have adrenline pumping in different locations. Just because the BoS isn't in the same state doesn't mean that Fallout Rp in Michigan is going to be boring.

Tom,
        Don't we all miss the ol' days. However, talking about the good ol' days of Fallout roleplay is not going to change fallout roleplay. I'm not trying to be bossy or disrespect an admin (btw this goes to everyone) but, this thread is mean't to brain storm ideas on how to bring back Fallout roleplay. Not the reminase (sorry for my shit spelling) about the good ol' days like old fags thread.

[Paintcheck]

Everyone knows Mad Max. The pit and point lookout were both poorly received and kI seem to recall Pc Gamer complaining about a lack of story/fallout feel in both. Yes the bos and Enclave are not everything that makes fallout fallout but they are the iconic images of the series and removing them seems to me to be a bad idea.

As Jake was saying in another thread the only fallout most of gmod knows is fo 3 and nv. That was why the Kentucky/Ohio canon got thrown out by Jake and Silver despite being the better time period and setting: gmod players are 12 and too stupid to read settings. People would see fo rp and immediately start making ncr characters and Lone Wanderers. If you want to do post apoc without the bos and enclave then come up with something new and don't call it fallout. Otherwise you will have the same problem. Everyone will ignore the canon and play their version of Fo, which is the one where they are hardass lone wanderers who don't fear anything.

As someone who isn't 12 and CAN read I agree with Tom. But most people aren't me or Tom or Jake or you and unfortunately stupid people are in more abundance than intelligent ones. That's what makes this so hard. (though I would argue that fo would have fewer problems if Silver and Anton and the bos hadn't gone apeshit when they were outsmarted by the Fra...who in turn were outsmarted by my Enclave. God forbid we accept losses and remain good sports, clearly whining to the admins/server owner is the proper course of action...)

[meetdadoom]

As Jake was saying in another thread the only fallout most of gmod knows is fo 3 and nv. That was why the Kentucky/Ohio canon got thrown out by Jake and Silver despite being the better time period and setting: gmod players are 12 and too stupid to read settings. People would see fo rp and immediately start making ncr characters and Lone Wanderers.

Paintcheck,
     The thing with this statement is that is implementing that people do not change and people do not become 13. People change when they realize they are doing something wrong. When a dog pisses on the carpet what do you do? You yell at it and show that the dog should piss outside. Yeah, the dog doesn't just automatically piece together that pissing on the carpet=bad but they understand that pissing on the carpet= being scolded and pissing outside= being praised. Eventually the dog will end up pissing outside only.
    Now lets put that dog example into real life. If a kid comes on and see's fallout roleplay and then creates the lone wanderer, what generally happens? We scold the person. Just like the dog example, the kid won't automatically stop being a "stupid 12 year old who doesn't have the attention span to read up on the canon". However, over time they will learn from our scolding that he/she should read up on the canon and realize that being the lone wanderer basically gives you a 99% chance of ending up getting killed since you do not have the advantage of extra guns against a super mutant and the knowledge to survive all on your own.
     Now lets use something that happened in HGN. Whyku. What happened. He was this "stupid 12 year old". When we taught him once, he didn't understand it completly however he started to piece how to rp correctly together the more times he got taught it. However, this annoyed everyone that Whyku didn't rp to their expectation after a few lessons on how to rp. People just ended giving up on him. In the dog example, it is like the dog stops pissing on the carpet but is now pissing on the kitchen floor. It is still pissing on the wrong spot but atleast it isn't pissing on the carpet. What HGN did was basically give up on the dog and let the dog try to learn to piss outside it self or let someone else teach the dog to piss outside. The problem is almost EVERYONE thought let someone else teach the dog to piss outside. What should be done is the owner should continue to correct the dog. Eventually the dog will understand that outside is the only place you can piss and will stop pissing on the floor inside the house. What I am driving at here is that we need to be a more forgiving community to mistake. That doesn't mean let the asshole kid who comes on and trolls and minges a second chance and try to teach him to roleplay good. But, we should be more forgiving to those who are trying to make an effort to change.
       The 12 year old will understand quickly from all of the flame in ooc that he needs to read up on the server canon.

[Paintcheck]

No he won't. He'll go "wow those hgn folk are assholes" and join one of the 400 other forp servers that will let him be a moron. There are too many alternatives running the same canon so the hgn name isn't going to persuade anyone to stop minging.

If fo wants to be saved it needs to rely on hgn's regulars since most of them know how to read. If you can get 20 players who aren't simpletons you might lure some decent players in but relying on random players to get numbers up will only lead to a server full of minges playing New Vegas with each other.

[meetdadoom]

No he won't. He'll go "wow those hgn folk are assholes" and join one of the 400 other forp servers that will let him be a moron. There are too many alternatives running the same canon so the hgn name isn't going to persuade anyone to stop minging.
Meh, I guess so. It does happen but, some people do end up going through my line of thinking. Like a dog, new fags strive to get praise from old fags. But, like a dog some dogs just end up saying fuck this shit and mauls the shit out of the owner and/or runs away.

If fo wants to be saved it needs to rely on hgn's regulars since most of them know how to read. If you can get 20 players who aren't simpletons you might lure some decent players in but relying on random players to get numbers up will only lead to a server full of minges playing New Vegas with each other.
Well now you are trying to make HGN RP a super secret club that you need to know someone to get in. If that is how you want it then fine. PBan everyone who sucks at roleplaying and lock the server. If not then just FRP or better just SF RP, I assure you. You will get better results doing one of these. However, hgn is trying to do a harder task. Try to get numbers and have good roleplay. This can be achieved however it is hard. The options to getting good numbers and have good roleplay are very limited. Jake realized this quickly and gave up quickly and said fuck it, play your god damn fallout new vegas. I am going to be over there playing our fallout roleplay. We can do this but this is like doing that thing we did in SRP where only the good roleplayers can come to Server 2 to roleplay. The players will either just continue to play fall out newvegas or be offended and leave. And lets say that one guy wants to actually end up playing in Server 2 with all the good roleplayers. Well to bad for you buddy. Who are you going to learn how to roleplay good from when everyone who roleplays good is off in a passworded server. The person will just end up using the others as role models and then all we will end up having is a server full of lone wanderers but large and a server with small amounts of good roleplayers.

[Paintcheck]

I wish I was at my computer so I could break out steam friends but I am at work so deal with it.

I didn't say close the server. I said relying on random new blood isn't going to work. As you JUST said they need role models. They aren't going to have any if everyone in the server is 12.  To prevent that hgn should work on wooing the players back who left the server but are still interested in rp. That way you have good people in the foundation not random trash kicked out of the other forp servers. If some good randoms join I'm not saying kick them out but relying solely on them is not how I would handle this.

If you can't get good players I'm sticking with sf rp and I think that is the mindset the other former players have as well. So far there isn't much incentive to try the server again in my eyes.

[jaik]

Misha, if players would be as dedicated as you describe them, then I'd expect the server to be full right now. The fact is that players have little patience and just quit playing after you're done with lecturing. We all tried teaching them, but the where are the results? I noticed that most of them run off to generic HL2RP communities, according to their quality of RP(shit).

[Plunger]

The biggest problems is admins are fighting with each a lot, in admin broadcast, and ooc for all the players to see, and over steam, and on the forum. Nothing is going to get done if the admins keep trying to get each other removed.

[Khorn]

All I see is some resentment to each other over decisions being made behind each other.

I don't see any fights, or have managed to miss them.

[Mr. Pink]

I gotta say, Plunger's right. I even commented in my first week here how odd/funny I thought it was that there was so much conflict between admins. You guys need to start, oh, I dunno, maybe voting on major decisions or something. Start communicating more, that way no one will feel butthurt because they were left out of a major decision. If they don't want to participate in making the decision, then they have no reason to be butthurt from their lack of say in it. Also, just sayin, I was one of those random people who wandered into the server... Unlike the average 12 year-olds we get, I actually have some decent roleplay experience... I may have my off-days, but, we all do from time to time... All of the twelve-year olds are not necessarily bad RPers, they just have high expectations from playing the FO games. We need to knock those expectations out of them and make an effort to teach them that RPing can actually be fun when you put effort into it. We also need to teach them that all the players they see with combat armor and energy weapons started out just like they did. Hell, I'm usually the poorest player on the server, yet I still manage to have combat armor and a safebox full of guns and ammo. I ran around with just a chinese pistol for the longest time but look where I am now.  :)  They need to learn that it all comes with time, and if they have patience, they'll eventually have all the cool stuff.

[Paintcheck]

And you just proved my point about the current players caring only about gear and not about RP.