[Resolved] Godmodding / Auto-hitting controversy.

[Spades_Neil]

I think we've resolved what happened here and what I did wrong on my part. I'll learn for the future. In-game, my character raised his weapon before ICly saying so. For the future, I now know better! :)

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Before I go mentioning names, I had an incident much earlier today where a "trial operator" did something in the course of RP that many of us deemed unfair--while the other person believed that I was in fact in the wrong.

Now, the difficulty is, being a trial operator, and considering the idea that the admin's decision is "final" according to your rules (a common rule that I oft-disagree with), I have no idea where to go to complain, or if there even is a place to complain. Right now I want to know if I even need to complain. I'm at least a decade veteran of roleplay and I see something wrong, but I'm absolutely brand new to Gmod RP so I have no idea if this is somehow tolerable. Above all, I want to show my side of the argument and have a proper "trial" so to speak to figure out who was actually wrong here, and what policies must be changed in the rules of this still apparently new Fallout RP server.

I must emphasize, that one, I do NOT hold any hard feelings toward this person. One, though ICly my character was killed, in-game my character was never killed so it's not like I lost items. However, I do view that what happened is called "Auto-hitting" in RP where I come from. Two, I'm NOT asking for disciplinary action toward this person for a mistake that could be avoided in the future. Point is, I'm not coming here to cry and bitch because an RP didn't go my way. However, I'm much more patient than some people might be. I know another person in the server at the time was blatantly blaming the admin of "power abuse" while they really did no such thing. None of us were kicked or banned for disagreeing with him, and though the debate was heated, it never degraded into outright abuse toward each other. It was nothing more than a simple debate. I had my side, he had his. I've argued with admins before and I've been an admin who people have argued with. As long as no one is banned for mere arguing (as long as it doesn't turn into name-calling, ban threats, and slander), then it's not admin abuse as far as I am concerned.

Now, below, I have purposely blacked out this trial operator's name because I don't want people later giving him shit for it if you think he was in the wrong. If you think he was in the wrong, post about it here and ONLY here. Don't whine about it in-game and cause unneeded drama. The past is the past, it's the future we need to fix. I left my name open because, well, I'm the one who's posting this. How the hell am I supposed to hide myself? :P

Anyway, here's what happened. Again, note, he was nice enough not to kill my character in-game, though in-character he "emptied" his AK clip into me, which basically means I was killed. My problem with this is it gave absolutely no chance to dodge or evade.


I admit, if a gunfight actually did occur, I'd be less annoyed because at least then we could agree that I rightfully lost--which chances are, I would have, pistol VS AK-47. However, there is that slim chance I could have survived too. I've survived against bigger guns with worse odds before. (In the real world, bullets are bullets. All it takes is one shot in the right place to end a fight--or it could be a violent exchange of panic fire.) The problem here is he did something called "Auto hitting" which is when you injure or kill a character without giving them a chance to react in any manner.

Now prior to what I posted, this character strolled on into town. My character and my friend were standing around the supply crate, and for me I had a pistol in hand (but not raised) because we just got back from a scavenging run. (Don't give me the excuse that we shouldn't have had guns out anyway because that has nothing to do with the autohitting that occurred here. The IC consequence of having a gun out wouldn't have changed, but this character is not a guard or head of the town and thus has no more of a right to enforce the laws than we do.)

In a matter of a few posts, this other character proceeded almost without recognition as to what we were posting it seemed. He saw us, pulled the bolt back on his AK-47, and began to threaten us. Isn't that a hostile act? Cocking your gun for a fight? My character reacted accordingly, asking him to put it away and that I wasn't shooting anyone. I don't know if he misread that or what, but he immediately aimed the gun at Kira, so Kira aimed back (except I typed it ICly though that much doesn't matter to me). Next post, he "empties" the gun at her. Boom, dead. End of RP.

Like I said earlier I'm not giving out this character's name (or description even) to the public of the community here unless an administrator asks me to do so though private messages. I want your opinions on whether or not his actions were "godmodding" or "autoing" or if you see nothing wrong with this brief RP exchange.

I do happen to know the server operator's IC name who was involved in this, however, and I do know what time it occurred if logs need to be checked in case any other admins think I'm intentionally leaving something out.

[jaik]

The admin you're trying to hide so well is me.
We already went through it in the server.
I entered and my character tried to show no acts of hostility, however you quickly started to threaten him and mentioned that you aren't shooting anyone, so I went "DAMN RIGHT YOU WON'T SHOOT ANYONE WITH THAT 9mm". The act of pulling the bolt wasn't a part of a plan of getting ready for a town massacre by the way.

Then I aimed at you and you OOCly started raising your weapon at me, you didn't make a /me for this action, which is in-fact, powergaming. However I ignored this and went on, emptying the magazine because there was none else to protect you and we were right at the entrance.
Then you and your buddy started accusing me of being a shit admin and a powergamer saying how 'unfair' it is.
Tough shit, suck it up, this is the Wasteland.

What is this auto-hitting thing? You can't dodge bullets.

[Pink!]

Actually, I think the issue is - he would have raised the weapon at the same time you did. He would have fired as you fired.

Which is a legitimate assumption.

[jaik]

Actually, I think the issue is - he would have raised the weapon at the same time you did. He would have fired as you fired.

I never said he couldn't.

[Recreas]

He probably got the chance  but didn't respond to it.

[Legit|Brandon]

So he Hesitated? Happens..

[Dug]

In the zone! We don't hesitate!
Because we have vodka and bloodsuckers!


Joke aside.

No such thing as auto hitting, no one can dodge bullets, you aren't super 1337 ninja.

[Bielecki]

Only problem I see is that he "emptied his gun" into you. It looks like an abuse of time to me (you can't fire a whole clip so fast, it just dosn't work like that) however thats just a small complaint.

[Paintcheck]

You can't fire clips at all. You can, however empty magazines.

I also think the issue here isn't so much the "autokilling" (which is stupid to complain about. From 5 feet away you aren't "dodging" anything) but rather the fact that the character Jake shot had a gun out as well and could have definitely raised it in response to Jake raising his.

Although in Jake's defense earlier that day he saw me get blasted in the face by some idiot insta-raising his gun and shooting me in the face while I was /meing something so he might have been on edge from that.

[jaik]

Although in Jake's defense earlier that day he saw me get blasted in the face by some idiot insta-raising his gun and shooting me in the face while I was /meing something so he might have been on edge from that.

The OP is the one who shot you.

[Ragolution]

I'm disappointed, Equerry.
I don't think anything else needs to be said other than that if he didn't emote raising his gun, he couldn't counter or meet Jake's gunfire with his own.

[Spades_Neil]

Although in Jake's defense earlier that day he saw me get blasted in the face by some idiot insta-raising his gun and shooting me in the face while I was /meing something so he might have been on edge from that.

That was actually me, yea. I'm still sorry about that. :\ Did you at least get your things back?

I learned my lesson from that one. Had a number of similar situations throughout the next day, but learned from that first instance, so now I know what to do when presented with a similar situation. For example, I was with the "Head Scribe" character last night. Some waster who we believed to have technology on him refused to submit to a search. I held back until I had explicit orders to fire in this case.

I've learned after what happened in that RP to always do the /me actions and give an In-character reason for shooting before actually shooting.

Though I do admit, staring at the front of a laser rifle in the hands of a scary Enclave, freakiest fucking RP I've ever had! XD I wish I didn't screw it up. Things were getting interesting.

Only problem I see is that he "emptied his gun" into you. It looks like an abuse of time to me (you can't fire a whole clip so fast, it just dosn't work like that) however thats just a small complaint.

That's really what it is for me. It's not like they're firing a machine gun with a high rate of fire. It's an AK-47. Those things have one hell of a kick. You "empty" a clip in someone like that, rounds are guaranteed to miss. I'm not saying one can dodge bullets at such close ranges, but "emptying the clip" into me is however autohitting. I'd certainly have been wounded pretty fucking badly though, and he could have finished me off.

Unless he aimed the first shot at my head. Then I'm screwed.

Then you and your buddy started accusing me of being a shit admin and a powergamer saying how 'unfair' it is.

Ugh, for the record, ignore my friend. HE IS THE ONE WHO INSISTED ON "ADMIN ABUSE". I said it, literally, once--and then realized how retarded my statement was because you should remember me arguing with my friend that it wasn't admin abuse. Unfortunately I think I put words in his mouth. If I were trying to make you lose your job, well, I imagine this thread would look very different--and far less civil.




In any case this thread seems to be going well. Not in my favor, but I'm not some stupid kid who's going to yell and scream about not getting my way. :P I'll question it sometimes, as I am now, but if I'm proven thus wrong, then I learn from it.

My new opinions:
- It's a bit fuzzy being nearly 24 hours ago, but let's say I did raise the weapon OOC before talking about aiming it ICly. I learned from where I shot Paint's character by not shooting before IC actions, but I'm learning here that also applies to absolutely anything being done with a weapon. Mind you I may be a veteran of RP, but Gmod RP in particular is brand new to me. I'm a fast learner though.
- Dodge bullets? I guess Bielecki put it better than I could, as it being a 'time abuse' of sorts. Plus, the kick of an AK if you hold down the trigger is tremendous. Now I'm not voiding the history of the RP, nor am I saying I'd have dodged bullets entirely, but as future pointer to Jake, I'd like to make the suggestion of when shooting to fire in short bursts at his enemies with that beast of a gun. :P Or make the first shot aim for the head if the opponent is standing still--which I was.

For sake of how the RP played out in my mind, I'll imagine, for now, that he shot Kira in the head and just proceeded to "empty the clip" out on her to vent frustration. Even last night I refused to attempt voiding the RP. Like I said, I have no hard feelings to you Jake! You just confused me, man!

I'm disappointed, Equerry.
I don't think anything else needs to be said other than that if he didn't emote raising his gun, he couldn't counter or meet Jake's gunfire with his own.

Like I said, I'm learning. RP is nothing new, but Gmod RP is. Look at that last few blocks of text for the lesson I learned here.

[Spades_Neil]

Judging by the fact that I think we've actually resolved what happened here (and now I know why I was in the wrong), I'll leave it up to a moderator what to do with this thread. Delete it, sticky it, take stuff from it to apply to in-game rules and policies...

Do what you will. My need for it is done. I wasn't here to get Jake in any sort of trouble. I was here to learn what I screwed up. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle!



... Shoot me if I ever reference GI JOE again.