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Poll
Question: What should we do with Factions? (Monolith are always Event faction)
Option 1: Remove Freedom/Duty Completely but keep military... | (Allow Player Groups as Major Factions) votes: 4
Option 2: Keep Freedom/Duty but at Squad Level... | (6/7 People Per Faction & Allow Player Groups as Main Factions) votes: 6
Option 3: Remove Freedom/Duty & Military... | (Allow Player Groups as Major factions) votes: 2
Option 4: Keep Freedom/Duty/Military as they used to be... | (without caps) votes: 1
Title: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: lolKieck on 03-06-2014
As the title says, less major factions. Instead of having a rather dull Duty vs Freedom vs Military ménage à trois with Monolith watching we should discard Duty and Freedom in favour of more interactions between Monolith, Stalkers (Bandits included) and Military. Oh, that'd also mean a deeper-Zone RP.
first
Title: Re: Less major factions
Post by: Tom on 03-06-2014
Are we doing a complete restart of the canon?
Title: Re: Less major factions
Post by: Blake.H on 03-06-2014
Quote from: Tom on 03-06-2014
Are we doing a complete restart of the canon?


Potentially, we'll see how appealing this sounds to others. I generally like the idea, possibly bringing DUTY/Freedom even possibly Military down to a Squad size (6/7) would be interesting and allow for more Loner/Bandit development.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Tom on 03-06-2014
Well, since we're doing a complete canon restart, perhaps you could set it like, pre-clearsky, set it before Freedom and Duty are factions in the zone. As far as factions go you'd have the Military, and maybe Monolith. Let Stalker/Bandit PBGs rise to minor/major faction status and if dorks want to make Duty and Freedom, let them, but treat them like every other PBG and if they reach Minor/Major faction status, don't treat them like anything special. In fact, don't treat any faction as special aside from Military and Monolith.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Knife_cz on 03-06-2014
That's a rather radical idea, I am not sure if the majority agrees with such..interesting opinion.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Tom on 03-06-2014
Quote from: knife_cz on 03-06-2014
That's a rather radical idea, I am not sure if the majority agrees with such..interesting opinion.

Elaborate. I'm a freedom old fag and I don't really think not including them will be to the detriment of the server in general. So long as there are other conflicts to be had.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Knife_cz on 03-06-2014
Quote from: Tom on 03-06-2014
Quote from: knife_cz on 03-06-2014
That's a rather radical idea, I am not sure if the majority agrees with such..interesting opinion.

Elaborate. I'm a freedom old fag and I don't really think not including them will be to the detriment of the server in general. So long as there are other conflicts to be had.
I mean, of course it is an interesting thing to do, a great oppurtunity to actually push the canon forward like everyone wanted before, appareantly. But what about the newcomers, will they agree with it? Do they want to take part of it? Also what about all the DUTY and Freedom suits?
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, hell I'll even go for it, if it happens. But really, the newcomers might just not get it.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Blake.H on 03-06-2014
I could refer back to my point about having them limited to Squad sized factions (6-7 people), making them in essence minor factions. Still around and kicking but to play a smaller part within the server.

In previous attempts all roleplay was based around being in a faction. We need to push towards a more new-player-friendly and loner development side of things.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Verne on 04-06-2014
Sounds like a good idea having freedom and duty operate at squad level, atleast until we have the playerbase to support the two originally major factions. Also, it would be nice to allow players to only have one character in either duty or freedom. This will make sure that there would be less metagame, concerning the weapons, leadership and relations of the faction. I can imagine many would join duty, and then metagame on their freedumb character, and it sort of just encourages metagame.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: jaik on 05-06-2014
Quote from: lolKieck on 03-06-2014
As the title says, less major factions. Instead of having a rather dull Duty vs Freedom vs Military ménage à trois with Monolith watching we should discard Duty and Freedom in favour of more interactions between Monolith, Stalkers (Bandits included) and Military. Oh, that'd also mean a deeper-Zone RP.
first

I was thinking we were scrapping the entire aged idea of giving undeserved near-absolute power and authority to organizations simply because of their name.

Quote from: Tom on 03-06-2014
Well, since we're doing a complete canon restart, perhaps you could set it like, pre-clearsky, set it before Freedom and Duty are factions in the zone. As far as factions go you'd have the Military, and maybe Monolith. Let Stalker/Bandit PBGs rise to minor/major faction status and if dorks want to make Duty and Freedom, let them, but treat them like every other PBG and if they reach Minor/Major faction status, don't treat them like anything special. In fact, don't treat any faction as special aside from Military and Monolith.

qft I think I told you what I was going for myself.

Quote from: Blake.H on 03-06-2014
I could refer back to my point about having them limited to Squad sized factions (6-7 people), making them in essence minor factions. Still around and kicking but to play a smaller part within the server.

In previous attempts all roleplay was based around being in a faction. We need to push towards a more new-player-friendly and loner development side of things.

Administration doesn't have to set up any factions. We don't need exactly Freedom nor Duty to have an SRP. The major faction duo is there to engage the player in a larger sideline quest series, and not because Freedom or Duty have any relevance in the canon or anything. You can put any name there as long as two or more factions are at war with each other.

If people are interested in doing Freedom or Duty, then let them, but no faction will receive any privileged treatment. Military serves a completely different purpose, and thus can hardly be counted as a "faction" in this context, because it doesn't really function, nor intend to, the same way as stalker-based groups do.



Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: lolKieck on 05-06-2014
Quote from: Verne on 04-06-2014
Sounds like a good idea having freedom and duty operate at squad level, atleast until we have the playerbase to support the two originally major factions. Also, it would be nice to allow players to only have one character in either duty or freedom. This will make sure that there would be less metagame, concerning the weapons, leadership and relations of the faction. I can imagine many would join duty, and then metagame on their freedumb character, and it sort of just encourages metagame.
one-faction rule was always in HGN SRP babe
not sure about now, though
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: nKe on 05-06-2014
I like this idea, simple as that.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Silver Knight on 05-06-2014
Quote from: lolKieck on 05-06-2014
Quote from: Verne on 04-06-2014
Sounds like a good idea having freedom and duty operate at squad level, atleast until we have the playerbase to support the two originally major factions. Also, it would be nice to allow players to only have one character in either duty or freedom. This will make sure that there would be less metagame, concerning the weapons, leadership and relations of the faction. I can imagine many would join duty, and then metagame on their freedumb character, and it sort of just encourages metagame.

one-faction rule was always in HGN SRP babe
not sure about now, though

This was because of uneven numbers of either faction being on, drama from playing both sides. metagaming..
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Dark Scar on 07-06-2014
In my opinion Blakes idea of having small squads of Duty and Freedom sound very good, rather than having an unlimited ammount and absorbing the entire populus of the server and ending up with about 2 stalkers.

As for management ranks I believe having some sort of structure as we did back in 09 would be for the best, having everyone as equal level always ended up with admins going against eachother in ideas or such.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Tom on 07-06-2014
I'd personally not worry about factions at all except the main players, but whateves "too radical". What will the hard faction caps be? Who will lead them? If we do allow them to exist, and we don't want it to be centered on factions WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW ANY LEEWAY AT ALL FOR THE FACTION CAPS THEY ARE THERE AND THEY ARE HARD CAPS, and if one of them that isn't important (by important I mean Monolith or Military) goes inactive we shouldn't give a shit and we should keep trying to keep the loner populace entertained with events.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: jaik on 07-06-2014
Quote from: Tom on 07-06-2014
I'd personally not worry about factions at all except the main players, but whateves "too radical". What will the hard faction caps be? Who will lead them? If we do allow them to exist, and we don't want it to be centered on factions WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW ANY LEEWAY AT ALL FOR THE FACTION CAPS THEY ARE THERE AND THEY ARE HARD CAPS, and if one of them that isn't important (by important I mean Monolith or Military) goes inactive we shouldn't give a shit and we should keep trying to keep the loner populace entertained with events.

I'd say that Military is one of the most if not the most important faction considering that it actually is a core part of the canon and contributes majorly to the environment (I'm not saying we should support it as a major faction, though, it should be a mix of minor and event faction), while Freedom and Duty are just stalker clans that are given prioritized treatment simply because we don't trust our playerbase to create their own faction. While I'm at it, I'll also point out that neither F/D do anything relevant in the canon, so I don't see why would they even matter, especially if we put our canon before the formation of F/D was completed in 2011.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Tom on 07-06-2014
Quote from: Jake on 07-06-2014
Quote from: Tom on 07-06-2014
I'd personally not worry about factions at all except the main players, but whateves "too radical". What will the hard faction caps be? Who will lead them? If we do allow them to exist, and we don't want it to be centered on factions WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW ANY LEEWAY AT ALL FOR THE FACTION CAPS THEY ARE THERE AND THEY ARE HARD CAPS, and if one of them that isn't important (by important I mean Monolith or Military) goes inactive we shouldn't give a shit and we should keep trying to keep the loner populace entertained with events.

I'd say that Military is one of the most if not the most important faction considering that it actually is a core part of the canon and contributes majorly to the environment (I'm not saying we should support it as a major faction, though, it should be a mix of minor and event faction), while Freedom and Duty are just stalker clans that are given prioritized treatment simply because we don't trust our playerbase to create their own faction. While I'm at it, I'll also point out that neither F/D do anything relevant in the canon, so I don't see why would they even matter, especially if we put our canon before the formation of F/D was completed in 2011.

He speaks the truth.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: lolKieck on 07-06-2014
I'd suggest keeping Monolith and the UKM as a constant force (major or minor, decide for yourself, but still present on the server).
Monolith would be guaranteeing a chance to die from a gunshot wound in the Zone while the Military could enrich RP by being proper Ukrainian kleptocrats.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: jaik on 08-06-2014
Quote from: lolKieck on 07-06-2014
I'd suggest keeping Monolith and the UKM as a constant force (major or minor, decide for yourself, but still present on the server).
Monolith would be guaranteeing a chance to die from a gunshot wound in the Zone while the Military could enrich RP by being proper Ukrainian kleptocrats.

There's no point neither mechanic(there are NPCs and admins) nor story development(death is considered poor execution when done inappropriately, and giving certain players literally a right to kill is inappropriate.) wise in having players occupy positions that are responsible only for killing other players. It also tends to have unwanted side-effects IC and OOC, drama included. Military provides genuine Zone experience in form of presenting the Ukrainian authorities as corrupt, giving some stalkers employment like  hiring Military Stalkers, informants, as well as making all sorts of deals with them -- basically, intriguing social RP. While Monolith is just pew pew pew, brainwash and asfdgl;f;asd;zglo.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: nKe on 08-06-2014
Less factions, more Cheeki Breeki
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: Knife_cz on 08-06-2014
Sooo, DUTY and Freedom will be given small squads, max. 6 people.
Military is going to be minor faction.
Monolith will be Event faction, since they do not add any real roleplay, besides shooting stalkers and passive RP in their own base.

The main focus is going to be around stalkers, and the player-based-factions.

We can all agree on that, right?
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: lolKieck on 08-06-2014
Honestly we should sack Freedom and Duty, instead relying on the players to make interesting faction.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Awaiting Community Feedback]
Post by: nKe on 08-06-2014
Just completely get rid of Freedom and Duty.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Given Closure]
Post by: Blake.H on 09-06-2014
Please see given Closure.
http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/contribution-forum/contribution-closure/ (http://www.forums.hypergamer.net/contribution-forum/contribution-closure/)
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Blake.H on 25-06-2014
Re-Opened For discussion & Added Poll with 10 day close time.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Locke on 01-07-2014
I feel like we should keep Freedom and Duty, but their power should be diminished. They used to get too powerful, but they usually didn't gain power equally and this ruined it for one faction or another. I mean, one faction would have active members an one didn't, and because we used to let Freedom and Duty have lots of power and influence the server would alternate between being ruled by one faction and then another.

It was an uneasy equilibrium and it led to blood feuds between the leaders and senior members of the warring factions that leaked from in character to out of character. Maybe if we reduce the sphere of influence that the factions have, the server would be more stable and more enjoyable for everyone.

Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Blake.H on 01-07-2014
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
I feel like we should keep Freedom and Duty, but their power should be diminished. They used to get too powerful, but they usually didn't gain power equally and this ruined it for one faction or another. I mean, one faction would have active members an one didn't, and because we used to let Freedom and Duty have lots of power and influence the server would alternate between being ruled by one faction and then another.

It was an uneasy equilibrium and it led to blood feuds between the leaders and senior members of the warring factions that leaked from in character to out of character. Maybe if we reduce the sphere of influence that the factions have, the server would be more stable and more enjoyable for everyone.

Could you elaborate more? What's your idea? Interested in knowing what you think we should do.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Locke on 01-07-2014
I think that Freedom and Duty should be there to enhance roleplay, but not to turn the game into a game of securing resources and power instead of roleplay. They should have semi-permanent bases that can rotate through events of something of the like, but make it so that the two can't war on each other except during events.

I just remember Freedom and Duty fighting a lot during the old days, and all the other players got caught in between and it sort of hijacked the server and experience because there were sometimes ~8-10 players on each side on at a time. If we limit the number of people on each faction, and make it so they do things other than fight each other, then it could be more enjoyable for smaller player groups. They could focus more on giving out missions and such instead of just trying to blow each other up every night.

I like the idea of focusing on smaller player groups and the interaction in between them. It feels like there will be novel game experience there because to be honest, Freedom vs Duty has been done to death in the past, I think it's time to try something different.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: jaik on 01-07-2014
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
I feel like we should keep Freedom and Duty, but their power should be diminished. They used to get too powerful, but they usually didn't gain power equally and this ruined it for one faction or another. I mean, one faction would have active members an one didn't, and because we used to let Freedom and Duty have lots of power and influence the server would alternate between being ruled by one faction and then another.

It was an uneasy equilibrium and it led to blood feuds between the leaders and senior members of the warring factions that leaked from in character to out of character. Maybe if we reduce the sphere of influence that the factions have, the server would be more stable and more enjoyable for everyone.

It's much easier to let the playerbase run factions that they want. Meaning if players want to make F/D, they can just do so by making a playerbased group with the same name, along with using the same uniforms and weaponry, if they can acquire them. The idea of having "official" factions that are given special treatment, which would be considered unfair preference in normal conditions, is aged and has proven to be a pain in the ass than a working concept. This is why situating the canon a year before the events of the games will be conducive for story-telling.

The influence you speak of must be erased completely to give everyone a fair platform to roleplay on. Nobody should have an upper-hand just because they play in a faction that is considered "major" by the game lore.  Roleplay is about story-telling, in fact, that is what it is, a form of collective story-telling. Why should someone suffer inherently because they prefer the idea of being a neutral evil / chaotic neutral character (characters that fall under the category of 'bandits', and actual non-faction mercenaries, such as the ones in SoC, especially 2215 build), where they truly do what their character wishes to do, and not what the OOC situation forces them to do.

In fact, the binary world that persists in most roleplaying servers is catalyzed by the enshrined major factions who enforce their "ideology" on the server OOC. This creates a situation where you can't do what you actually want to do, as one would be able to in the Zone/Wasteland/Metro/<Insert stereotypical post-apoc environment>. Here is a graphical demonstration of the current situation.

(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLls0O9w.png&hash=af2230a3e634e76b2f7aaba5f4ac0da0740736d8)



Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
I think that Freedom and Duty should be there to enhance roleplay, but not to turn the game into a game of securing resources and power instead of roleplay. They should have semi-permanent bases that can rotate through events of something of the like, but make it so that the two can't war on each other except during events.

I just remember Freedom and Duty fighting a lot during the old days, and all the other players got caught in between and it sort of hijacked the server and experience because there were sometimes ~8-10 players on each side on at a time. If we limit the number of people on each faction, and make it so they do things other than fight each other, then it could be more enjoyable for smaller player groups. They could focus more on giving out missions and such instead of just trying to blow each other up every night.

I like the idea of focusing on smaller player groups and the interaction in between them. It feels like there will be novel game experience there because to be honest, Freedom vs Duty has been done to death in the past, I think it's time to try something different.

F/D/<Insert a major faction duo> are factions that conceptually have one goal: provide the player either something to ally with or shoot at. They enhance roleplay only to the extent that the players in the factions themselves are able to do so, the factions themselves do not play a role in this. Playing "Faction Wars" at any level on a roleplaying server is just trying to facilitate for the lack of roleplay and creativity. Clear Sky is an excellent Faction War simulator (especially with the mod), go play that, really.


Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Ragolution on 01-07-2014
Quote from: Jake on 01-07-2014
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
.

(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLls0O9w.png&hash=af2230a3e634e76b2f7aaba5f4ac0da0740736d8)



Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014

As a D&D player, NO THIS IS FUCKING WRONG
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: jaik on 01-07-2014
Quote from: Ragolution on 01-07-2014
As a D&D player, NO THIS IS FUCKING WRONG

What a great refutation.

As a (former) GMod player, yes, this is right.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Locke on 01-07-2014
Wait, what's wrong about it?
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Ragolution on 01-07-2014
Quote from: Jake on 01-07-2014
Quote from: Ragolution on 01-07-2014
As a D&D player, NO THIS IS FUCKING WRONG

What a great refutation.

As a (former) GMod player, yes, this is right.

Man FUCK your snarky comments, the 9-fold alignment system is fucking shit and you know it. If you really want to debate it we can take this somewhere else.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Tom on 02-07-2014
quick question. Why is the "remove duty/freedom" option split up between two options? Reread the thread and that other option and nowhere does anyone suggest removing military is a good idea. I know you dont like the idea of having freedom and duty blake but that doesnt mean you can split the votes like that :p
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: jaik on 02-07-2014
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
Wait, what's wrong about it?

What are you referring to?

Quote from: Ragolution on 01-07-2014
Man FUCK your snarky comments, the 9-fold alignment system is fucking shit and you know it. If you really want to debate it we can take this somewhere else.

Snarky comments? I copied your empty response that you gave to a post on which I spent more than a second of my time. You complaining about such a small thing just highlights your hypocrisy.

Quote from: Tom on 02-07-2014
quick question. Why is the "remove duty/freedom" option split up between two options? Reread the thread and that other option and nowhere does anyone suggest removing military is a good idea. I know you dont like the idea of having freedom and duty blake but that doesnt mean you can split the votes like that :p

He needs more than just three core factions(Monolith, Military, Ecologists) to be in at the same time/desert from.
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Silver Knight on 02-07-2014
Quote from: Jake on 02-07-2014
He needs more than just three core factions(Monolith, Military, Ecologists) to be in at the same time/desert from.

(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fth08.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2FPRE%2Ff%2F2012%2F324%2Fb%2F9%2Faccurate_stalker_game_factions_alignment_chart_by_hitmaniv-d5jfn7x.png&hash=73a6428e6d10395840250e90940129d6f2792a34)
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: jaik on 02-07-2014
Quote from: SilverKnight on 02-07-2014

Nah, that's for the game, and a part of it is incorrect. Here's a version that represents SRP.

(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYOL0Rsw.png&hash=4fefc22ca98bca2a745426d47ba835a404122ee6)
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Ragolution on 02-07-2014
Quote from: Jake on 02-07-2014
Quote from: SilverKnight on 02-07-2014

Nah, that's for the game, and a part of it is incorrect. Here's a version that represents SRP.


(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2Fbdtdew.gif&hash=5f119cc74a2a9e5c7768c16396407ea5765b5892)
Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: jaik on 02-07-2014
Quote from: Ragolution on 02-07-2014


(https://forums.hypergamer.net/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.tinypic.com%2F2qm3vgx.gif&hash=456e5e6760a79e50fc45eb0e5f4843adbb34f091)

Also, you're resorting to shit-tier posts without any actual content and yet you were the one whining about 'snarky comments'. Keep on emphasizing your hypocrisy and how misinformed you are.



Title: Re: SUGGESTION: Less Major Factions [Re-Opened]
Post by: Locke on 02-07-2014
You two seriously need to take this bickering elsewhere. You're derailing the thread.