So one problem that I can remember is that after a few months after the server started up, there were a lot of people who had reached the highest tier gear. This is because money accumulated very quickly because prices stayed the same despite more money pouring in the zone.
What if the price of items adjusted itself to the average amount of money that the server has in rubles? For example, a suit could cost 25% percent of someone's average net worth, so if everyone on the server had 10,000 RU, a suit of a certain kind would cost EVERYONE 2500 RU.
But let's say that after 4 months, everyone (or more realistically, the average person) has 100,000 RU, then the same suit would cost everyone 25,000 RU.
It's important that people realize it doesn't matter how much one person has, but rather how much the server as a whole has.
A problem that could arise is that if there are people with a ton of money, or with very little money, the server will quickly turn into a hierarchy with only the richest of the rich being able to buy things.
Another problem is that it is possible that exo suits could end up costing 1 RU if all that players have is 1 RU across the whole player base. I would fix this problem by making items have a base cost depending on their strength. So, basically a cheap suit and gun would have a very low base price, while an exo suit would have a very high base price. These base prices could not go lower, and only increase in cost. This way it would be a while before exo suits started appearing, and as more people gained more money they would be harder to get than if the price were constantly the same.
Another problem is that really cheap things could get out of hand expensive, such as the cheapest gun and cheapest suit. So I propose that low tier items have a max price. This way players have incentive to buy lower tier items and then the whole server will likely be running around with crappy gear, just like the real zone would be!
I had two ideas that could potentially fix this:
1. Depending on your rank, your wallet/bank account would only be able to hold a certain amount of money, increasing slightly based on your increasing rank. For example:
Base (meaning everyone has at least this):
-10K RU
Rank bonuses (added to base):
- Novice +0k RU (so no bonus)
- Experienced +2.5k RU
- Expert +5k RU
- Master +10k RU
Faction bonuses:
- Minor Faction Member +2.5k RU
- Major Faction Member +5K RU
- Any faction leader +2.5k RU
(ALL OF THESE ARE UP FOR DEBATE AND MORE BONUSES CAN BE ADDED)
So basically, we would have some sort of way to give out wallet bonuses to experienced and dedicated players while at the same time making sure that the money doesnt get out of hand. This makes it so that things are still competitive, as you can have more money than someone else, without it getting out of hand with someone having 1000K RU. Basically the goal would be to make the economy more stable. This way people aren't all running around in exo suits, because it is harder to get them, while low tier items should be accessible to most. This way everyone has access to low tier weaponry and gear, and few have access to high tier weaponry and gear.
Completely open for discussion, go!
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
So one problem that I can remember is that after a few months after the server started up, there were a lot of people who had reached the highest tier gear. This is because money accumulated very quickly because prices stayed the same despite more money pouring in the zone.
What if the price of items adjusted itself to the average amount of money that the server has in rubles? For example, a suit could cost 25% percent of someone's average net worth, so if everyone on the server had 10,000 RU, a suit of a certain kind would cost EVERYONE 2500 RU.
But let's say that after 4 months, everyone (or more realistically, the average person) has 100,000 RU, then the same suit would cost everyone 25,000 RU.
It's important that people realize it doesn't matter how much one person has, but rather how much the server as a whole has.
How would you ascertain this value? Would you have someone run through the database every day or would you script something to do it?
Quote
A problem that could arise is that if there are people with a ton of money, or with very little money, the server will quickly turn into a hierarchy with only the richest of the rich being able to buy things.
Another problem is that it is possible that exo suits could end up costing 1 RU if all that players have is 1 RU across the whole player base. I would fix this problem by making items have a base cost depending on their strength. So, basically a cheap suit and gun would have a very low base price, while an exo suit would have a very high base price. These base prices could not go lower, and only increase in cost. This way it would be a while before exo suits started appearing, and as more people gained more money they would be harder to get than if the price were constantly the same.
Another problem is that really cheap things could get out of hand expensive, such as the cheapest gun and cheapest suit. So I propose that low tier items have a max price. This way players have incentive to buy lower tier items and then the whole server will likely be running around with crappy gear, just like the real zone would be!
Blah blah economy really these shouldn't be issues so I'm gunna ignore your solutions while saying they're all valid.
Quote
So basically, we would have some sort of way to give out wallet bonuses to experienced and dedicated players while at the same time making sure that the money doesnt get out of hand. This makes it so that things are still competitive, as you can have more money than someone else, without it getting out of hand with someone having 1000K RU. Basically the goal would be to make the economy more stable. This way people aren't all running around in exo suits, because it is harder to get them, while low tier items should be accessible to most. This way everyone has access to low tier weaponry and gear, and few have access to high tier weaponry and gear.
If you really want it to 'balance' like that, you're going to need a handful of accounts that have a 0-balance wallet or literally no one will have enough money to buy anything. Traders accumulated money at very hate rates if I'm not mistaken.
[spoiler] you filthy capitalist.[/spoiler]
I was hoping it could be coded into the game mode, so that certain accounts could be ignored. For example, traders.
Ready for a suggestion that solves every single problem that is posed by a crappily simulated pseudo-economy?
Remove it.
What would you think of capping how big of a wallet players have without the inflation?
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
What would you think of capping how big of a wallet players have without the inflation?
Would just lead to hoarding of items and giant caches
People already did that though, at least this way it's in the game world and not in their massive virtual bank accounts.
Honestly I don't think I'm the only one who noticed that as soon as we stopped losing items all the time from the script, focus on roleplay dropped heavily because people became more concerned with items. Trying to reinforce the economy rather than paying more attention to the roleplaying experience simply reaffirms that RP isn't worth it and you might as well just focus on the gear aspect.
My goal with this was to make it so that items were more arbitrary, and so that higher level gear was more rare. Do you have an other suggestions? I'd actually like to hear them, because I don't want this round of SRP to turn into a game of hoards.
Quote from: Cutch on 01-07-2014
Trying to reinforce the economy rather than paying more attention to the roleplaying experience simply reaffirms that RP isn't worth it.
Considering how much roleplay you could actually experience, it really isn't worth it.
SRP has always generally been a sugar-coated Dark RP/RPG.
I've been saying this for quite a while now. There has been no discussion on how to improve roleplay. If we want to run a typical RP server like we always did then we could at least be honest this time and say it's not about roleplay.
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 01-07-2014
My goal with this was to make it so that items were more arbitrary, and so that higher level gear was more rare. Do you have an other suggestions? I'd actually like to hear them, because I don't want this round of SRP to turn into a game of hoards.
The sloppy simulation of an economy that will likely be the closest thing you will come to executing an economy will always arrive at a dead-end, this has been proven countless times.
Back in 2009/2010 CakeScript's shitty networking and unreliable data saving, more known as the "worldspawn" glitch, acted as a relief since it removed heaps of gear and currency. Obviously, we had less wipes back then.
As for the "economy" itself, it requires more irrelevant cash dumps. Ammo, durability, useless shit you'd want to spend money on. Drastically increase the price of or limit access to higher tier items. Losing a percentage of money and gear permanently (no refunds) when you die. Dying and getting injured requires medical items/aid. Etc. You can implement hundreds of these. Matter of fact is, there will always be players who will reach the top, either by exploits or admin rewards (abuse), aka the 1% and one shouldn't focus on them when speaking about the economy generally.
You have a good point there. So what incentive would we give players to spend their money on things? Can we implement durability and jamming into the script?
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 02-07-2014
You have a good point there. So what incentive would we give players to spend their money on things? Can we implement durability and jamming into the script?
Recurring incentives. It can range from very basic needs like hunger/thirst to item deterioration or upgrades. Many features can be made up in this field. This will take the bulk of passive income.
Another way of keeping the economy afloat is to make cash dumps from high-tier armor (SKAT, Exos, etc) and weaponry, along with its ammunition(RPG, Grenade launchers and their rounds, etc). This would mean that a player would have to spend a lot of effort, something around 1-3 months to use such equipment. Make consumption and usability incredibly expensive to make sure individuals/groups with small passive income wouldn't be able to afford them, meaning that the use of these items will be limited even further.
Giving certain items variables like condition is only possible if all items are given a unique ID. As far as I know such a feature doesn't exist in our script so we're better off using something else that has such like ClockWork or NutScript.
I think most people would become irritated with a hunger system if there is not trader online to buy from, would we have NPC traders or something of the like for the bare necessities?
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 02-07-2014
I think most people would become irritated with a hunger system if there is not trader online to buy from, would we have NPC traders or something of the like for the bare necessities?
Having npc traders devolves this into an RPG instead of an RP server. If you want an RPG that's fine, but I'm pretty sure Silver despises the very idea. (Or maybe not, who knows.)
Quote from: Ragolution on 02-07-2014
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 02-07-2014
I think most people would become irritated with a hunger system if there is not trader online to buy from, would we have NPC traders or something of the like for the bare necessities?
Having npc traders devolves this into an RPG instead of an RP server. If you want an RPG that's fine, but I'm pretty sure Silver despises the very idea. (Or maybe not, who knows.)
I can't recall an HGN server that wasn't running an RPG.
Quote from: Jake on 02-07-2014
Quote from: Ragolution on 02-07-2014
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 02-07-2014
I think most people would become irritated with a hunger system if there is not trader online to buy from, would we have NPC traders or something of the like for the bare necessities?
Having npc traders devolves this into an RPG instead of an RP server. If you want an RPG that's fine, but I'm pretty sure Silver despises the very idea. (Or maybe not, who knows.)
I can't recall an HGN server that wasn't running an RPG.
I was going to say Fallout but then I realised it was, except at the
very beginning.
Quote from: Jａkｅ on 01-07-2014
Ready for a suggestion that solves every single problem that is posed by a crappily simulated pseudo-economy?
Remove it.
Could do that. Literally everything any server ever has tried to simulate a pseudo-economy has done nothing but either be really annoying or distract from RP.
Okay so if we scrap the pseudo economy then we just have to take careful consideration of how we price things and how money is given out.
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 02-07-2014
Okay so if we scrap the pseudo economy then we just have to take careful consideration of how we price things and how money is given out.
I feel the way of managing the economy, especially traders is to give traders a set amount of items of their choice to start off with to sell and then sell buy items from stalkers, keep them and sell them on as profit. I feel the 'Order from catalogue' way of which we used to work is broken and doesn't support a proper economy I.E. it's like going to the the corner shop and opening a bottomless pit of anything you'll ever need - It's just not realistic or feasible
Maybe we should have a weekly injection of gear for traders, and then that's all they get for the week?
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 03-07-2014
Maybe we should have a weekly injection of gear for traders, and then that's all they get for the week?
Something like that, Maybe give them basic stuff food/ammo/rookie guns etc. weekly and possibly a decentish cache once a month. We have a lot more control over what items are circulating.
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 02-07-2014
Okay so if we scrap the pseudo economy then we just have to take careful consideration of how we price things and how money is given out.
I don't think you quite got the message.
Removing the economy means exactly that; getting rid of it.
This means doing away with currency. The way people would acquire items is going to be done through a simple menu where the user just chooses to spawn whatever item they want.
Quote from: Forum Tech Bot on 03-07-2014
I feel the way of managing the economy, especially traders is to give traders a set amount of items of their choice to start off with to sell and then sell buy items from stalkers, keep them and sell them on as profit. I feel the 'Order from catalogue' way of which we used to work is broken and doesn't support a proper economy I.E. it's like going to the the corner shop and opening a bottomless pit of anything you'll ever need - It's just not realistic or feasible
Quote from: ㅎㅎLocke on 03-07-2014
Maybe we should have a weekly injection of gear for traders, and then that's all they get for the week?
Quote from: Forum Tech Bot on 03-07-2014
Something like that, Maybe give them basic stuff food/ammo/rookie guns etc. weekly and possibly a decentish cache once a month. We have a lot more control over what items are circulating.
Who's going to manage the system you describe and how would one even do it to ensure a proper supply of demanded items(Primary stuff could easily run out, meaning everyone would starve. As well as rich players could simply buy the entire stock and make the entire server suffer. Just two examples of why this isn't a reliable system)? Could you explain this process in detail?
The RPG-type of gameplay isn't fully compatible with realism, especially when you consider that in the games you could essentially buy whatever you want regardless of who the trader was, meaning that what you argue as "unrealistic" and "unfeasible" is canon, henceforth the argumentation that depends on plausibility in relation to real life becomes invalid.
I also would like you to extend on the "proper economy" statement since you seem to know what that is. I'm genuinely curious.
Quote from: Jａkｅ on 03-07-2014
Quote from: Forum Tech Bot on 03-07-2014
Something like that, Maybe give them basic stuff food/ammo/rookie guns etc. weekly and possibly a decentish cache once a month. We have a lot more control over what items are circulating.
Who's going to manage the system you describe and how would one even do it to ensure a proper supply of demanded items(Primary stuff could easily run out, meaning everyone would starve. As well as rich players could simply buy the entire stock and make the entire server suffer. Just two examples of why this isn't a reliable system)? Could you explain this process in detail?
The RPG-type of gameplay isn't fully compatible with realism, especially when you consider that in the games you could essentially buy whatever you want regardless of who the trader was, meaning that what you argue as "unrealistic" and "unfeasible" is canon, henceforth the argumentation that depends on plausibility in relation to real life becomes invalid.
I also would like you to extend on the "proper economy" statement since you seem to know what that is. I'm genuinely curious.
I'll explain tonight when i'm home... It's just an idea on how we could possibly manage more the direction the server takes, trying to remove the focus from 'GEEEAAAAARRRRRR!' to: 'Fuck it, RP. Traders have fuck all.' as the stalker universe shows - As with all stalker games (Bar Clearshit) you cant just walk up to the fat fuck in the bunker and buy an Exo within 5 mins of playing the game.
Ill make a long winded post as to why me and jake are in agreeance when i get home.
So people can just spawn what ever gear they want? I guess it makes sense, apply for different tiered items etc. I kind of like the idea blake and I were just talking about with a weekly injection.
Removed derailling posts.
To Note: Removing the Economy and going with a second life system is not a option for SRP.
I'm pretty sure having that RPG element in SRP keeps the gamemode appealing to newer players. There's alot better places for sad smart people to Role-Play in, where they can create their own worlds and stuff. Chatrooms are ALOT better for that kind of stuff, Gmod in comparison has been proven horrible place for such Role-Play.
Because Gmod is really good at the RPG stuff. Scripts are at a level of competency where it saves inventories and stats, it doesn't generate shit for people to do like most proper RPGs do, and the worlds are not huge like most proper RPGs are because of source limitations. Are you also saying that the goal isn't to make a good RP server, but to make a good RPG?